Human being

[LifeHiscost]

Originally Posted By: GreatLakesGramma

If the brain is dead, and the body is only kept functioning by artificial means, it isn't really alive.

So what was once a moving, breathing, loving, creative, independent human being is now expendable without any recriminations because it no longer has a brain while the rest of his body is still living and functioning, whereas a microscopic fertilized egg that has no brain, unfeeling, uncreative, unmoving, and totally dependent, is valued as a human being?

Human comes with a working brain.

Once I was privy to information that the mighty oak tree was fully formed in miniature in the seed or nut, until such time as it (the nut) was sown in proper soil, henceforth to grow until it developed into the mighty oak.

Why would we think the human would be treated with any less care from their beginning?

God, Who created the microchip, and allowed man to discover and put multiplied billions of bits of information upon them, would seem not to have any problem doing something with similarity in the physical realm of life. Although when first receiving life from the Lifegiver, it might appear as if the tiny embryo had no thinking capacity, but since human thought has a need to relate to a previous experience to develop connected thought for useful activity, it does not seem strange to me to see the human in the womb as inactive for such a period after conception, as any thought needing related input would be very minimal, though a thinking human being from the onset as is sometimes shortly evidenced by a sucked thumb or a kick to the ribs of the mother.

As to eventually becoming expendable, a result of dying according to the reality of God's original instruction to Adam, it seems no great matter to him/her, whose life is hid with Christ in God.

"For while we are still in this tent, we groan under the burden and sigh deeply (weighed down, depressed, oppressed)--not that we want to put off the body (the clothing of the spirit), but rather that we would be further clothed, so that what is mortal (our dying body) may be swallowed up by life [ after the resurrection]. "

2 Corinthians 5:4 AMP parenthesis brackets theirs LHC

"He went inside and asked, “Why all this commotion and weeping? The child isn’t dead; she’s only asleep.”" Mark 5:39 NLT

"“ O Death, where is your sting? O Hades, where is your victory?”"1 Corinthians 15:55 NKJV

Blessings!

[doug yowell]

[

"So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them." Genesis 1:27 NKJV

What was this man that was created in the image of God? Was it a fertilized egg? NO!!! It was a FULLY developed moving, thinking, feeling, loving, creative human being!

As my favorite extra-biblical author said it: "Every human being, created in the image of God, is endowed with a power akin to that of the Creator-- individuality, power to think and to do." Ed 18.

[doug yowell]

Originally Posted By: GreatLakesGramma

If the brain is dead, and the body is only kept functioning by artificial means, it isn't really alive.

So what was once a moving, breathing, loving, creative, independent human being is now expendable without any recriminations because it no longer has a brain while the rest of his body is still living and functioning, whereas a microscopic fertilized egg that has no brain, unfeeling, uncreative, unmoving, and totally dependent, is valued as a human being?

Bad comparison, Gerry. ALLOWING a "once" to die naturally is not the moral equivilent of CAUSING the "future" to die unnaturally. Both are human beings. One,if left to the natural course will die. The other, if left to the natural course, will live to become what will eventually be the "once".

[Overaged]

I think y'all are doing a great injustice to the chicken and egg theories here and if you can't even get that right how can you get the human stuff right?

[doug yowell]

I think y'all are doing a great injustice to the chicken and egg theories here and if you can't even get that right how can you get the human stuff right?

mmmmmm...tastes like chicken.

[Guest]

He shouldn't eat that.

[Gerr]

Quote:

So what was once a moving, breathing, loving, creative, independent human being is now expendable without any recriminations because it no longer has a brain while the rest of his body is still living and functioning, whereas a microscopic fertilized egg that has no brain, unfeeling, uncreative, unmoving, and totally dependent, is valued as a human being?

Bad comparison, Gerry. ALLOWING a "once" to die naturally is not the moral equivilent of CAUSING the "future" to die unnaturally. Both are human beings. One,if left to the natural course will die. The other, if left to the natural course, will live to become what will eventually be the "once".

Perhaps bad comparison according to you. BOTH are totally dependent. Leave a zygote by itself and it too will die. The womb is the life support it needs, just as the respirator is to the brain dead.

[Gerr]

Quote:

Gerry, are you suggesting that only when a human has developed fully into a thinking, loving, creative being can they be qualify as being in God's image? What does this say about a newborn 6 hours old? At what point do you think the human being deserves this recognition? Does a human lose this when they experience some sin caused accident or disease which destroys any of these faculties?

To answer your question, then let us first define what the "image of God" is, what it means to be created in "His likeness."

The Bible identifies man as the only earthly creature that was created in His image and likeness. What is it about man that sets him apart from the rest of creation? Let me suggest the following:

1. Power to think - rationality.

2. Power to do - freewill.

3. Ability to have fellowship and communion with God.

4. Most importantly, moral image - i.e. righteousness and holiness. I believe this is what man lost at the Fall, and which God seeks to restore in the Plan of Redemption.

Feel free to scrutinize the above and let's discuss them and then add or subtract. Once we have an agreed upon definition of what God's image and likeness is, it should become easy to answer your question.

[GreatLakesGramma]

This subject is prompted by a discussion about abortion in another thread.

What is a human being? When do we call the product of pregnancy a human being? That life begins at conception is a given. Should/do we call a fertilized ovum a human being? After birth? Or somewhere in between?

[Gerr]

No. It was not a trick question, and never crossed my mind to be such. The discussion IS about what a human being is. However, it may peripherally touch on abortion because abortion touches on our values as to what a human being is. If I were to consider a fertilized human ovum as much a human being as I view you, then ALL the RIGHTS & PRIVILEGES accorded to you should/must be given to it as well.

[GreatLakesGramma]

OK, I'm sorry I suspected your motives.

[Overaged]

Prenatal development follows a path. Prenatal development refers to the process in which a baby develops from a single cell after conception into an embryo and later a fetus.

Read More: Prenatal Development

Here is a picture of all these stages. Hard to imagine any stage as "not human;" as that is where they all come from.

[Gerr]

I learned that in college biology class. So what's your point?

That a fertilized egg is a human being? Should we then consider a spermatozoon a half human being and an ovum also half a human being?

[doug yowell]

Quote:

Gerry, are you suggesting that only when a human has developed fully into a thinking, loving, creative being can they be qualify as being in God's image? What does this say about a newborn 6 hours old? At what point do you think the human being deserves this recognition? Does a human lose this when they experience some sin caused accident or disease which destroys any of these faculties?

To answer your question, then let us first define what the "image of God" is, what it means to be created in "His likeness."

The Bible identifies man as the only earthly creature that was created in His image and likeness. What is it about man that sets him apart from the rest of creation? Let me suggest the following:

1. Power to think - rationality.

2. Power to do - freewill.

3. Ability to have fellowship and communion with God.

4. Most importantly, moral image - i.e. righteousness and holiness. I believe this is what man lost at the Fall, and which God seeks to restore in the Plan of Redemption.

Feel free to scrutinize the above and let's discuss them and then add or subtract. Once we have an agreed upon definition of what God's image and likeness is, it should become easy to answer your question.

Actually, you didn't answer my question but I'm sure you'll get another opportunity to do so shortly. I agree with the above definition but pose the question: is that all? I really don't think that you would be willing to limit God's image to these four aspects.I hope not anyway. That's why I asked if a 6 hour old newborn possesses these characteristics.Interestingly enough the Bible records the reactions of a 6 month old fetus as being capable of recognizing the presence of another developing embryo (Luke 1)!! Doesn't every human being need the capacity to develop enough to be capable of exercising these "image" traits? What exactly does a 2 day old newborn possess that qualifies them for the "image" that the 9 month old unborn does not possess? At what point are these qualities developed enough to say that they are now in the "image of God"?So my immediate addition to the list is: 5. a physical being.

[LifeHiscost]

I agree.

Ditto!

[LifeHiscost]

As my favorite extra-biblical author said it: "Every human being, created in the image of God, is endowed with a power akin to that of the Creator-- individuality, power to think and to do." Ed 18.

And so we don't become a human being until we're fully formed as mature adults, capable of thinking and doing. And, of course, there are always some who never do develop as mature adults, and I assume they aren't human beings. Unless, of course, the more minimal thinking and doing can also be considered a human and a being.

[Gerr]

If you re-read the quote, LHC, I believe it's talking about what the image of God is, not what is a human being.

[Gerr]

A bacterium has a physical being too, and every other creature besides man.

[Overaged]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

As my favorite extra-biblical author said it: "Every human being, created in the image of God, is endowed with a power akin to that of the Creator-- individuality, power to think and to do." Ed 18.

And so we don't become a human being until we're fully formed as mature adults, capable of thinking and doing. And, of course, there are always some who never do develop as mature adults, and I assume they aren't human beings. Unless, of course, the more minimal thinking and doing can also be considered a human and a being.

If you have ever worked in a nursing home or hospital you could find lots of disagreement with your interpretation here.

[doug yowell]

If you re-read the quote, LHC, I believe it's talking about what the image of God is, not what is a human being.

You're the one who introduced the image of God question, Gerry. Are you changing the subject, or are you connecting the image of God to the question of what is a human being?

[doug yowell]

[ And so we don't become a human being until we're fully formed as mature adults, capable of thinking and doing. And, of course, there are always some who never do develop as mature adults, and I assume they aren't human beings. Unless, of course, the more minimal thinking and doing can also be considered a human and a being. ].

Dr. Peter Singer of Princeton Univ. has long advocated that parents be given a minimum 30 days to decide whether or not to abort their children, AFTER birth!If one cannot be classified as fully human without meeting the above critereon then it would naturally follow that neither can they be said to be in the image of God. And if not fully human then your point is well taken,OA.

[doug yowell]

A bacterium has a physical being too, and every other creature besides man.

Yes, that's what qualifies it as a bacterium. But I thought we were discussing what qualifies human beings as fully human and in the image of God? How does this relate?

[Guest]

I see what you mean Doug.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

What exactly does a 2 day old newborn possess that qualifies them for the "image" that the 9 month old unborn does not possess?

Breathing.

[Guest]

Is the baby not supplied with oxygen and nutrients on the inside as well as the outside?