A Revelation Tidbit

[Bravus]

Ed: fair enough, I was basically just playing around with the idea of 'four-faced aliens', and you're absolutely right, they testify to having been redeemed which makes them from Earth. I should know better than to toss a joke into the middle of a heavy debate, and it wasn't any sort of serious attempt at resisting your interpretation at all.

[Ron Lambert]

Ed, what an insult to God to suggest He is so unjust that He would allow humans who are among the accused to preside in Judgment sitting on thrones and wearing crowns, when the purpose of the Judgment is to determine whether any humans are worthy to sit on thrones and be given crowns!

[Guest]

Bravus thanks for your words to agree with the bible, but I am the one more guilty of cracking a funny in a serious discussions than most, I will readly admit that I need help in this area. The inspired words "by beholding we are changed into the same image", should teach me something about where I spend my time!!!

[Guest]

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Ed, what an insult to God to suggest He is so unjust that He would allow humans who are among the accused to preside in Judgment sitting on thrones and wearing crowns, when the purpose of the Judgment is to determine whether any humans are worthy to sit on thrones and be given crowns!

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Ron I can live with ME being "insulting' to God only when I obey His written Word that He has "preserved & purified" [Ps. 12:7-8] But the question is can you live with yourself making up your own leaning on man rules???

[Ron Lambert]

Ed, what man-made rules are you saying I am leaning on?

Do you believe God has specially purified the old King James Version, so that it is the only one we should go by, and ignore how other versions translate Rev, 5:9, 10?

[Guest]

Ron said. "the old King James Version"

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I think documentation could be provided that when Rome in the dark ages got werrie of the chase and turned the prisoners loose to hunt down and destroy the manuscripts the Waldenses Christians were scattering & teaching from, they had the same curl in their voice as I see above.

Listerene can help cure bad breath, but a heart transplanted is needed here.

[DaveM1936]

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I have reached the conclusion that the position I present is better than all the others, because it fits Bible requirements and the demands of sound reason and equitable justice better. There are no objections anyone can bring against the view I have suggested. Serious objections can be raised (as I have demonstrated, and which no one has answered) that show that the view that the 24 elders are humans is untenable.

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I make the very same statement about my own view on this subject. It makes sense to me. Your objections do not make sense to me. You have no support from the Bible or EGW that these elders are "Adam's" from other worlds or that they are angels.

Since we cannot convince each other, then we will have to agree to disagree and remain friends.

Your friend,

Dave M

[Guest]

Dave said. "I make the very same statement about my own view on this subject."

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"I thought", "I thought", "I thought", reminds me of Captain Naaman's words ["I THOUGHT"} after he came to see God's prophet to be cured of lepersy and the prophet didn't even come to the door to meet him, but he sure had a correct message for a sick & dying man. The Captain jumped in his chariot and said to his men fuming, "I THOUGHT the man of God..."

All this squirming going on resisting plain bible instruction, why not just lay your guns down for a season, punt your leaning on man study guides through the goal post and try again?

[LifeHiscost]

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I make the very same statement about my own view on this subject. It makes sense to me. Your objections do not make sense to me. You have no support from the Bible or EGW that these elders are "Adam's" from other worlds or that they are angels.

Since we cannot convince each other, then we will have to agree to disagree and remain friends.

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Maybe we can be grateful that we aren't saved because we know it all, or even a little bit, without failing to reach the mark.

[:"red"] "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD." [/] Isaiah 55:8 KJV

[Ron Lambert]

Ed, I simply meant "old King James Version" in contrast to the New King James Version.

It is a fact that since the King James Version was translated some 500 years ago, archaeologists have unearthed older manuscripts written 100 years or more earlier than the manuscripts the KJV translators had.

[Guest]

Ron I am aware of these "older manuscript", but just because they were older doesn't mean they are better and are the ones heaven was/is/will/be protecting. Forgery was alive and well in the harlot church in that generation as well as it is now.

[Ron Lambert]

But manuscripts from the fifth century have had 200 more years to become corrupted in copying compared to manuscripts from the third century. Too bad we don't have any of the autograph originals. But then they would probably be worshipped idolatrously as holy relics.

[DaveM1936]

Why do you care what version one uses? The English language has changed considerably over the last 400 years.

Your friend,

Dave M

[Guest]

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Why do you care what version one uses? The English language has changed considerably over the last 400 years.

Your friend,

Dave M

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Dave I have made plans in the FUTURE to be able to keep up with the horses, so today as I gird up the loins of my mind [keeping up with the footmen] by having a real bible [KJV} as my study guide, I want no spurious interpretation to hinder my running stride. There are other reason if you want more clarification

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[Gus Foster]

I wrote this a few years ago--seems quite appropriate now:

Last Sabbath I attended a class at the Toledo, Ohio church, where a fellow mate accepted the challenge of not allowing the teacher to finish any given point of his presentation. He insisted on asserting His point of view at every turn, to the extent he became obnoxious and overbearing. In my life's history I can relate to that, being vampid, insisting on perpetuating my own I AMs. We are sheep, especially the unwanted attributes (stupid, etc.). While all of heaven's agents are urging us to relinquish all forms of competition, to live with the indwelling Holy Spirit and all its fruits, we persist in bannering our human natures (1 Cor. 2-10-16). I think maybe a certain degree of maturity is finally settling into my nature, and I try more and more to KEEP IT SIMPLE, STUPID.

In keeping with that theme, I would like to relate it to some of the books and articles I have received lately on the book of Revelation, joining my endless vicarious non-KISS library. To me, the first half of Revelation is a picture of the sanctuary, as it was at Christ's ascension, as it is today. We see Jesus and His churches, Him with His Father in their thoneroom, and then His directions from that throne, which are the seals, and the results on earth, which are the trumpets.

As the new covenant church parallels the old, so do the seals and trumpets parallel the books of the kings and chronicles. The book of Kings, both 1 & 2, was a compilation by Jeremiah of several scribes, presenting the mighty acts of God for His people, and rewarding obedience to His law (will). The books of Chronicles/Ezra/

Nehemiah was compiled by Ezra from Nehemiah's library, emphasizing the religious acts, especially in the Temple setting. The Revelation seals are messages from heaven. Horses are messengers (Zech 6), sent from God through the Cherubim (Eze 1), and the riders are the message. More precise, the seals are the presentation of the gospel. The first brings peace (bow), the second the sword (divisions), the third war, and the fourth spiritual death and Christian martyrs. which illustrates the power of the Godhead upon the earth.

Easily the sixth seal is simply described in Hebrews 12b, where all are shaken, violently.

The trumpets, as was Chronicles, describes the result of the gospel light to the world (hurled to the earth), And spiritual rejection as well as spiritual cleansing, the removal of dross, if you will. In the fifth trumpet. our Lord (he who has the keys) gives Satan power to loose his demons, spiritual and human, as he did in Job's day. Certainly, the grass, trees, sea and earth (types of people) are all symbolically translated throughout Scripture. The sixth trumpet is but a preview of the plagues, soon to follow.

My final point is this silence of the seventh seal. In the flood our Father had 1/2 hour of silence before he committed His strange act of destroying His creation. Revelation has a commentary in the gospel of John, which, in turn, has a commentary in John's epistles. Love and separation is his message, and our goal, and the true message of all these books, especially the simple message of The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which should be each one of us.

[Guest]

Gus you should consider submitting this article in your twisting of scriptures to the magazine editors that publish your church papers, as some people get paid for such putting pen to paper these days where confusion is engaged.

[Clio]

Gus -

The abyss is opened and the releasing has begun. The bound ones under the river remain bound, but not for much longer.

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such as the 5th, where Jesus gives Satan the key to the abyss and he releases demonic forces onto the earth,

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Thank you for your study...

[DaveM1936]

I appreciate your insightfull summary of Revelation. It included points I had never thought of.

Your friend,

Dave M

[Guest]

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Gus -

The abyss is opened and the releasing has begun. The bound ones under the river remain bound, but not for much longer.

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such as the 5th, where Jesus gives Satan the key to the abyss and he releases demonic forces onto the earth,

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Thank you for your study...

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Yes Gus has a measure of light here in applying the 5th trumpet TO THE FUTURE --Dave. This is after the close of probation of course because the 144,000 have the seal of God in their forehead [9:4] "and cannot be hurt", but these newly released demonic forces are going to hurt someone that legislation has decreed that “don’t you kill them, just torment them for 5 months” they of course that are being “hurt” will be the false shepherds in Adventism that “are seeking death and shall not find it”.

The 7 Trumpets of Revelation must be understood folks or you will always be off ballance.

[Guest]

Anyone growing up in America and playing football should be able to take a few lessons from this sport for their theology department. If after 3 downs and no advancement has been made, the ball carrier does a 12 step program in reverse and waits for the ball to be snapped to him where common sense is engaged and it is expected of him to kicks the living daylight out of the ball for another chance later.

Speaking of taking a few steps backward I remember...

“As the priests and rulers, full of indignation and terror, sought refuge in flight at the last scene of the cleansing of the temple, so will it be in the work for these last days. The woes that will be pronounced upon those that have had light from heaven, and yet did not heed it, they will feel, but will have no power to act. This is represented in the parable of the wise and foolish virgins. They cannot obtain a character from the wise virgins, and they have no oil of grace to discern the clear light or to accept it. They cannot light their lamps and join the procession that goes in to the marriage supper of the Lamb. {SpTA07 54.2}

Study the Revelation in connection with Daniel; for history will be repeated."

[DaveM1936]

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“As the priests and rulers, full of indignation and terror, sought refuge in flight at the last scene of the cleansing of the temple, so will it be in the work for these last days. The woes that will be pronounced upon those that have had light from heaven, and yet did not heed it, they will feel, but will have no power to act. This is represented in the parable of the wise and foolish virgins. They cannot obtain a character from the wise virgins, and they have no oil of grace to discern the clear light or to accept it. They cannot light their lamps and join the procession that goes in to the marriage supper of the Lamb. {SpTA07 54.2}

Study the Revelation in connection with Daniel; for history will be repeated."

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Where did you get this quote from? I assume it was EGW.

Your friend,

Dave M

[Guest]

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“As the priests and rulers, full of indignation and terror, sought refuge in flight at the last scene of the cleansing of the temple, so will it be in the work for these last days. The woes that will be pronounced upon those that have had light from heaven, and yet did not heed it, they will feel, but will have no power to act. This is represented in the parable of the wise and foolish virgins. They cannot obtain a character from the wise virgins, and they have no oil of grace to discern the clear light or to accept it. They cannot light their lamps and join the procession that goes in to the marriage supper of the Lamb. {SpTA07 54.2}

Study the Revelation in connection with Daniel; for history will be repeated."

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Where did you get this quote from? I assume it was EGW.

Your friend,

Dave M

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Dave glad you can see truth here, the reference is given above from the SOP. But the question is, does it apply with how I was using it???? You are ALWAYS ready to jump all over me if I fail to cross a "T" or dot a "I". Or you say I am not using it in contex. I don't know what it takes to please you. Do you want me to be like my cat that allows my big dog [that would never harm her] and engulfs 60% of her body in his mouth? If that is what it takes, open wide!!! But don't expect me to compromise when truth is involved.

[DaveM1936]

Thank-you for your response. I was not attempting to corner you. It is my method of study to always look at the context. That is why I asked where you got it from. I do not try to "jump all over you". I only want the context which is necessary to understand the quotation. IF you do not mind, I still would like to know where you got it.

Dave M

[Guest]

SpTA07 54.2}

[Gus Foster]

Might be helpful if you describe your interpretation of "the last days"; Scripture actually includes the time of the Apostles as the last days.

John, Peter, James and Paul stated they were in the last days.