When we sin do we disconnect?

[Twilight]

What happens when a born again Spirit filled believer sins?

Does He at that point lose his status with God?

I would present Eve as an example that that is the case:

Eve was right with God.

The moment she sinned, she lost all priviledges.

There was no "probation".

So it seems that when we sin, we break our part of the relationship with God.

God then strives to restore that relationship, but it is broken.

Question is, to what extent does that affect our relationship?

Do we lose the indwelling of the Holy Spirit for instance?

Over to you.

PS.

Bible and bible alone on this one please, no SOP. :-)

We have to present to non SDA's our arguments, if we cannot do that from the bible alone, we need to spend a little more time in there.

[Gerr]

14 For the Lord will not forsake his people; he will not abandon his heritage;

15 for justice will return to the righteous, and all the upright in heart will follow it. "s 94:14-15 ESV.

1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. 1 Jn 2:1-2 ESV

[Kevin H]

14 For the Lord will not forsake his people; he will not abandon his heritage;

15 for justice will return to the righteous, and all the upright in heart will follow it. "s 94:14-15 ESV.

1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. 1 Jn 2:1-2 ESV

Amen!!!

[Twilight]

As I consider this, the following thoughts come to mind:

1. Eve's sin seperated her from God.

2. God did not seperate from Eve.

3. God put His emergency plan into operation.

4. If Eve repented she was forgiven.

5. Then Eve was restored to God fully.

I fear there is a danger in not recognising that when a man sins, he breaks his connection to God.

God does not abandon him.

But he has abandoned God.

The relationship has broken down, until repentance is received and returned to God.

Just because God is calling us to repentance, does not mean we can take that as a sign that our relationship is a saved one.

If we sin, we step out of Justification.

Repentance then restores us back into justification.

Anything else would seem contrary to the whole of scripture.

Your thoughts?

Mark :-)

[Twilight]

If that is not the case, then Eve was punished unfairly...

Because she broke the relationship with God on her side of the matter.

That in effect broke the whole relationship.

But God attempting to restore the relationship should not be taken as a sign the relationship was alright.

Because that was not the case with Eve.

Or anyone else in the scriptures I can think of?

:-)

[Just*]

«For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.» Heb 10:14

Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.» Rom 5:9

«Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:» Rom 3:24

«Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one [the free gift came] upon all men unto justification of life.» Rom 5:18

«To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.» 2 Cor 5:19

«For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.» 2 Cor 5:21

---------------------

«Who [is] a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth [in] mercy. He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us; he will subdue our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea. Thou wilt perform the truth to Jacob, [and] the mercy to Abraham, which thou hast sworn unto our fathers from the days of old.» Mic 7:18-20

«and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.» Gen 12:3...

«Say, I pray thee, thou [art] my sister: that it may be well with me for thy sake; and my soul shall live because of thee.» Gen 12:13...

«For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.» Gen 13:15...

[Robert]

What do you mean when you sin? You are never measuring up to the life of Christ.....You are not free from what EGW calls "earthliness" (the way of the world based in Lucifer's bent to self). Who are you kidding?

[Robert]

If Eve repented she was forgiven.

Tell, oh great one, where did the "woman caught in adultery" repent?

John 8:3 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4 and said to Jesus, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 In the Law, Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?" 6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him. But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." 8 Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground. 9 At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?" 11 "No one, sir," she said. "Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."

Here we have a woman, unlike the man of Romans 7, who is living for the flesh. What does Jesus say to her before He ask her to leave her adulterous life behind?

See the red lettering above.

[Gerr]

If you die in the act of willful sinning, you might have a BIG problem because you close your life with that blot and go to judgment with that blot.

[Woody]

Praise God ... His Blood covers the blots of our lives. My God is big enough. Praise the Lord.

[Twilight]

If you die in the act of willful sinning, you might have a BIG problem because you close your life with that blot and go to judgment with that blot.

You haven't shared your thoughts on my arguments Gerry.

When you have time. :-)

[Gerr]

Praise God ... His Blood covers the blots of our lives. My God is big enough. Praise the Lord.

I also know of a certain worshiper in the temple thanking and praising God....

[pnattmbtc]

If you die in the act of willful sinning, you might have a BIG problem because you close your life with that blot and go to judgment with that blot.

Do you mean as an aberrant act, or as something one would normally do? Or does it not matter? Why do you see there would be a big problem?

[Twilight]

I am still hoping Gerry will come back to this thread..

[Gerr]

Do you mean as an aberrant act, or as something one would normally do? Or does it not matter? Why do you see there would be a big problem?

But any person who sins deliberately, whether he is a native or a foreigner, is guilty of treating the Lord with contempt, and he shall be put to death, - Nu 15:30 GNT

14 But if a man willfully attacks another to kill him by cunning, you shall take him from my altar, that he may die. Ex 21:14 ESV.

If someone does something intentionally/willfully/deliberately /high-handedly, this doesn't sound like an "aberrant" act to me. I'm glad God is the Judge! And all I can say is that sin is dangerous and best to keep as much distance from it as possible!!!

[pnattmbtc]

If someone does something intentionally/willfully/deliberately /high-handedly, this doesn't sound like an "aberrant" act to me. I'm glad God is the Judge! And all I can say is that sin is dangerous and best to keep as much distance from it as possible!!!

I don't see intentionally/willfully/deliberately /high-handedly as necessarily being the same. If by "intentionally" you mean "high-handedly," then I would agree, but the reason would not be because of the act itself, but because of the heart or attitude that one had that would lead one to commit such an act in the first place.

Consider Moses, as an example. He committed an intentional sin when he struck the rock. Would he have been in big trouble if he had died when he did so?

[Gerr]

As I consider this, the following thoughts come to mind:

1. Eve's sin seperated her from God.

Our situation is not exactly like Adam & Eve's. They were on probation in the Garden. After they ate the fruit, God came down and rendered a judgment of guilty and became subject to the first death. They then were given another probation regarding the second death. Judgment as to whether they will have eternal life or not did not take place until AFTER they died. When they repented of the original transgression, they were forgiven and probably had their names back in the book of life.

Quote:

2. God did not seperate from Eve.

3. God put His emergency plan into operation.

4. If Eve repented she was forgiven.

5. Then Eve was restored to God fully.

But the final full restoration verdict could not be rendered until the investigative judgment.

[Gerr]

Quote:

If we sin, we step out of Justification.

Repentance then restores us back into justification.

But----is the believer who fall into sin judged each time he sins? Heb 9:27 "And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment," ESV.

Our sins and our repentance are recorded, yes. But we are not judged again & again & again - unjustified & justified, unjustified and justified. Most businesses that deal with other businesses do not sent a bill after EACH ransaction.

Neither does my phone company bill me after each call. A statement is sent out monthly or when I CLOSE out my account.

[Gerr]

Had David had a heart attack while in bed with Bathsheba, or while he was writing out the death warrant for Uriah, do you think he would have perished?

[Robert]

Had David had a heart attack while in bed with Bathsheba, or while he was writing out the death warrant for Uriah, do you think he would have perished?

No....

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

As I consider this, the following thoughts come to mind:

1. Eve's sin seperated her from God.

Our situation is not exactly like Adam & Eve's. They were on probation in the Garden. After they ate the fruit, God came down and rendered a judgment of guilty and became subject to the first death. They then were given another probation regarding the second death. Judgment as to whether they will have eternal life or not did not take place until AFTER they died. When they repented of the original transgression, they were forgiven and probably had their names back in the book of life.

Quote:

2. God did not seperate from Eve.

3. God put His emergency plan into operation.

4. If Eve repented she was forgiven.

5. Then Eve was restored to God fully.

But the final full restoration verdict could not be rendered until the investigative judgment.

I would disagre with your first point.

When we are born again, we are placed back on Eves ground.

We have the same restrictions as she did.

Zech 3 shows this.

As to the investigative judgement, I am not sure what exactly you are trying to say?

[Twilight]

Quote:

If we sin, we step out of Justification.

Repentance then restores us back into justification.

But----is the believer who fall into sin judged each time he sins? Heb 9:27 "And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment," ESV.

Our sins and our repentance are recorded, yes. But we are not judged again & again & again - unjustified & justified, unjustified and justified. Most businesses that deal with other businesses do not sent a bill after EACH ransaction.

Neither does my phone company bill me after each call. A statement is sent out monthly or when I CLOSE out my account.

Let me pray about your point. :-)

[Gerr]

Quote:

I would disagre with your first point.When we are born again, we are placed back on Eves ground.

We can't be on Eve's or Adam's ground. They were created sinless. We have a fallen nature that is predisposed to do wrong. And as long as we are in this flesh, no matter how much we try, we will always fall short of the perfect requirements of the law. Thus we have a pattern of sin-repentance-forgiveness. And Eve post-fall was not on the same ground as she was before the fall either.

[Twilight]

Quote:

I would disagre with your first point.When we are born again, we are placed back on Eves ground.

We can't be on Eve's or Adam's ground. They were created sinless. We have a fallen nature that is predisposed to do wrong. And as long as we are in this flesh, no matter how much we try, we will always fall short of the perfect requirements of the law. Thus we have a pattern of sin-repentance-forgiveness. And Eve post-fall was not on the same ground as she was before the fall either.

Your nature is now a born again nature.

If you receive it fully.

The same spiritual nature Eve had.

The same Spiritual nature that Jesus had from birth.

Your thoughts?

[Gerr]

Quote:

Your nature is now a born again nature.

If you receive it fully.

Receiving the born-again nature does not get rid of our sinful flesh. We are not to let sin reign but we are still in it and won't be changed until Jesus comes. This present body is what we have to work with, it is fallen, and will always fall short.

Quote:

The same spiritual nature Eve had.

Do you think Eve or Adam (btw, why are you mentioning just Eve?) never sinned again after their initial downfall?

Quote:

The same Spiritual nature that Jesus had from birth.

Jesus was not born with a propensity to sin. You and I were.