When we sin do we disconnect?

[Twilight]

Receiving the born-again nature does not get rid of our sinful flesh. We are not to let sin reign but we are still in it and won't be changed until Jesus comes. This present body is what we have to work with, it is fallen, and will always fall short.

[pnattmbtc]

p:I don't see intentionally/willfully/deliberately /high-handedly as necessarily being the same. If by "intentionally" you mean "high-handedly," then I would agree, but the reason would not be because of the act itself, but because of the heart or attitude that one had that would lead one to commit such an act in the first place.

Consider Moses, as an example. He committed an intentional sin when he struck the rock. Would he have been in big trouble if he had died when he did so?

G:Had David had a heart attack while in bed with Bathsheba, or while he was writing out the death warrant for Uriah, do you think he would have perished?

To make my point, a single counter-example is sufficient. It may well be true that what you asserted is true sometimes. But is it always true? I'm not sure about this, which is why I cited the example I did.

[pnattmbtc]

Quote:

Your nature is now a born again nature.

If you receive it fully.

Receiving the born-again nature does not get rid of our sinful flesh. We are not to let sin reign but we are still in it and won't be changed until Jesus comes. This present body is what we have to work with, it is fallen, and will always fall short.

Quote:

The same spiritual nature Eve had.

Do you think Eve or Adam (btw, why are you mentioning just Eve?) never sinned again after their initial downfall?

Quote:

The same Spiritual nature that Jesus had from birth.

Jesus was not born with a propensity to sin. You and I were.

Are you wishing to imply that Jesus Christ did not have sinful flesh? If not, what point were you wanting to make? (regarding Jesus not being born with a propensity to sin, as opposed to us).

[pnattmbtc]

But----is the believer who fall into sin judged each time he sins? Heb 9:27 "And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment," ESV.

Our sins and our repentance are recorded, yes. But we are not judged again & again & again - unjustified & justified, unjustified and justified. Most businesses that deal with other businesses do not sent a bill after EACH ransaction.

Neither does my phone company bill me after each call. A statement is sent out monthly or when I CLOSE out my account.

There are different judgments which occur at different times, each of which consider the same facts. The angels look at things at one point in time, the saved at another, and the lost at another, although they each consider the same evidence.

Since justification and pardon are "one and the same," it follows that we are repeatedly justified, given that we are repeatedly pardoned. Conversely, if we are only justified once, then we are only pardoned once.

[Twilight]

Quote:

Your nature is now a born again nature.

If you receive it fully.

Receiving the born-again nature does not get rid of our sinful flesh. We are not to let sin reign but we are still in it and won't be changed until Jesus comes. This present body is what we have to work with, it is fallen, and will always fall short.

Quote:

The same spiritual nature Eve had.

Do you think Eve or Adam (btw, why are you mentioning just Eve?) never sinned again after their initial downfall?

Quote:

The same Spiritual nature that Jesus had from birth.

Jesus was not born with a propensity to sin. You and I were.

Are you wishing to imply that Jesus Christ did not have sinful flesh? If not, what point were you wanting to make? (regarding Jesus not being born with a propensity to sin, as opposed to us).

Jesus was born "born again", full of the indwelling of the third person of the Godhead...

That was His "nature".

[pnattmbtc]

p:Are you wishing to imply that Jesus Christ did not have sinful flesh? If not, what point were you wanting to make? (regarding Jesus not being born with a propensity to sin, as opposed to us).

T:Jesus was born "born again", full of the indwelling of the third person of the Godhead...

That was His "nature".

[Gerr]

But that old nature can be put to death.

According to the scripture...

Death once for all time?

[Gerr]

So do you maintain then that we are: saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, etc. etc. until Jesus comes?

[Twilight]

This isn't "nature." I'm not understanding why you're labeling this as "nature."

Also, there's nothing that precludes some other human being (besides Jesus) from being full of the indwelling of the third person of the Godhead at birth, is there?

Why wouldn't you label it as "nature"?

Our nature is what we inherit at birth isn't it?

Please share your view as to what "nature" is, bearing in mind it is a very fluid word.

No, there are special circumstances where a child can be born "born again".

But obviously Jesus was a little different.

But remember the original topic...

[Gerr]

Quote:

Are you wishing to imply that Jesus Christ did not have sinful flesh? If not, what point were you wanting to make? (regarding Jesus not being born with a propensity to sin, as opposed to us).

I am not implying. I am making a categorical statement that Jesus was born, "in the likeness of sinful flesh", Ro 8:3; shared "in flesh and blood," Heb 2:14, born "holy" Lk 1:35, and "in Him was no sin," 1 Jn 3:5. And that He had NO propensity or inborn inclination to sin. IOW, in moral terms, he was on the level with Adam, but had the body of a man over 4k yrs after Adam.

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

But that old nature can be put to death.

According to the scripture...

Death once for all time?

It can be held in a state of death.

As revealed in Galatians.

[Twilight]

So do you maintain then that we are: saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, etc. etc. until Jesus comes?

I believe that Gods Grace extends over us, whilst we travel the road that leads to total death of the flesh, with the passions and lusts.

That when we sin, the part of the relationship being maintained is that of Gods part reaching out to us.

But that not being the total relationship, the total justification experience.

Because we have once again broken it.

This is why Ellen White taught the last generation had to have the victory.

Why?

Because once Jesus stands up, we have no more intercession, there is no more grace to extend to us if we break that connection.

But we will also be sealed, so that has to be born in mnd.

Your thoughts?

[pnattmbtc]

So do you maintain then that we are: saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, etc. etc. until Jesus comes?

What do you mean by "saved" and "lost"?

My point was that if justification is one and the same thing as pardon, then if we are pardoned repeatedly, we must be justified repeatedly. That's correct, isn't it?

[pnattmbtc]

Quote:

p:Are you wishing to imply that Jesus Christ did not have sinful flesh? If not, what point were you wanting to make? (regarding Jesus not being born with a propensity to sin, as opposed to us).

G:I am not implying.

Yes, you were.

Quote:

I am making a categorical statement that Jesus was born, "in the likeness of sinful flesh", Ro 8:3; shared "in flesh and blood," Heb 2:14, born "holy" Lk 1:35, and "in Him was no sin," 1 Jn 3:5. And that He had NO propensity or inborn inclination to sin. IOW, in moral terms, he was on the level with Adam, but had the body of a man over 4k yrs after Adam.

In the statement I quoted, you didn't make a categorical statement, but a statement from which one could draw an inference, which is what I did, and which, it appears to me, you're agreeing to.

[pnattmbtc]

p:This isn't "nature." I'm not understanding why you're labeling this as "nature."

Also, there's nothing that precludes some other human being (besides Jesus) from being full of the indwelling of the third person of the Godhead at birth, is there?

T:Why wouldn't you label it as "nature"?

[pnattmbtc]

Because once Jesus stands up, we have no more intercession, there is no more grace to extend to us if we break that connection.

This is an interesting subject to discuss. I agree with the idea of victory over sin for the final generation alive when Christ's comes, so I'll state that to avoid any possible misunderstandings.

I don't think the issue is that there won't be grace available to us if we break the connection in the sense that God, or Christ, is refusing to give someone grace who wants it, like it's too late, and they had their chance, or anything like that. I think the issue is that in order to prepare a people to stand when Christ returns, there must be a revelation of God's character such as there has never been, since Christ was here. This revelation results in a division, of those who respond, and become Christ-like, and those who reject, who war against those who accepting the light.

[Just*]

So do you maintain then that we are: saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, etc. etc. until Jesus comes?

«For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.» Heb 10:14

[teresaq]

14 For the Lord will not forsake his people; he will not abandon his heritage;

15 for justice will return to the righteous, and all the upright in heart will follow it. "s 94:14-15 ESV.

1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. 1 Jn 2:1-2 ESV

i agree, i dont believe God abandons us when we sin...He didnt abandon adam and eve, but implemented the plan of salvation to rescue them/us from the power of satan.

yet, i do believe that we separate ourselves from God when we sin, or drift away. big difference as i see it. God is still there, but we arent. we are off doing our own thing, so to speak...

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

Because once Jesus stands up, we have no more intercession, there is no more grace to extend to us if we break that connection.

This is an interesting subject to discuss. I agree with the idea of victory over sin for the final generation alive when Christ's comes, so I'll state that to avoid any possible misunderstandings.

I don't think the issue is that there won't be grace available to us if we break the connection in the sense that God, or Christ, is refusing to give someone grace who wants it, like it's too late, and they had their chance, or anything like that. I think the issue is that in order to prepare a people to stand when Christ returns, there must be a revelation of God's character such as there has never been, since Christ was here. This revelation results in a division, of those who respond, and become Christ-like, and those who reject, who war against those who accepting the light.

i see it the same way regarding Christs saying, so to speak, ok, times up, grace ends tonight at such and such an hour.

i think grace "ends" when no one else is accepting it. everyone has become firmly determined to go one way or the other, so "grace" or chances, no longer has anyone to work on...

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

p:This isn't "nature." I'm not understanding why you're labeling this as "nature."

Also, there's nothing that precludes some other human being (besides Jesus) from being full of the indwelling of the third person of the Godhead at birth, is there?

T:Why wouldn't you label it as "nature"?

Why would one label the indwelling of the Holy Spirit at birth as "nature"?

Quote:

Our nature is what we inherit at birth isn't it?

Please share your view as to what "nature" is, bearing in mind it is a very fluid word.

It is a very fluid word, which is why I was asking for clarification. I think "characteristics" might work.

Quote:

No, there are special circumstances where a child can be born "born again".

Agreed. So being indwelt by the Holy Spirit at birth is not a determination of one's nature.

Quote:

But obviously Jesus was a little different.

He is God. So quite a lot different.

Quote:

But remember the original topic...

I'm responding to what you wrote. However, it seems to me likely connected, so I'm not surprised it came up in what you wrote.

I would define nature, as that which is inherited from the parent.

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

Because once Jesus stands up, we have no more intercession, there is no more grace to extend to us if we break that connection.

This is an interesting subject to discuss. I agree with the idea of victory over sin for the final generation alive when Christ's comes, so I'll state that to avoid any possible misunderstandings.

I don't think the issue is that there won't be grace available to us if we break the connection in the sense that God, or Christ, is refusing to give someone grace who wants it, like it's too late, and they had their chance, or anything like that. I think the issue is that in order to prepare a people to stand when Christ returns, there must be a revelation of God's character such as there has never been, since Christ was here. This revelation results in a division, of those who respond, and become Christ-like, and those who reject, who war against those who accepting the light.

Interesting...

[Twilight]

yet, i do believe that we separate ourselves from God when we sin, or drift away. big difference as i see it. God is still there, but we arent. we are off doing our own thing, so to speak...

So we agree on something Teresa.

But the next question is, that when sin do we break the connection?

Have we lost our justification?

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: pnattmbtc

This is an interesting subject to discuss. I agree with the idea of victory over sin for the final generation alive when Christ's comes, so I'll state that to avoid any possible misunderstandings.

I don't think the issue is that there won't be grace available to us if we break the connection in the sense that God, or Christ, is refusing to give someone grace who wants it, like it's too late, and they had their chance, or anything like that. I think the issue is that in order to prepare a people to stand when Christ returns, there must be a revelation of God's character such as there has never been, since Christ was here. This revelation results in a division, of those who respond, and become Christ-like, and those who reject, who war against those who accepting the light.

i see it the same way regarding Christs saying, so to speak, ok, times up, grace ends tonight at such and such an hour.

i think grace "ends" when no one else is accepting it. everyone has become firmly determined to go one way or the other, so "grace" or chances, no longer has anyone to work on...

Could well be...

[pnattmbtc]

Quote:

I would define nature, as that which is inherited from the parent.

Do you mean what one inherits from one's parents at conception? Are you considering things other than DNA?

[Robert]

Quote:

I would define nature, as that which is inherited from the parent.

Do you mean what one inherits from one's parents at conception? Are you considering things other than DNA?

Just look at an infant....They haven't learned to hide their selfishness. Put two infants in the floor and give one a toy and the other no toy and watch their natures. The one without a toy will insist that he/she has that toy...and so they will fight over it. Lucky for us they aren't that dangerous at this age....

Why the fight?

James 4:1 What causes fights and quarrels among you? Don't they come from your desires that battle within you? 2 You want something but don't get it. You kill and covet, but you cannot have what you want. You quarrel and fight. You do not have, because you do not ask God. 3 When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasure....

Note our bent-to-self...."Mine, mine, mine, me, me, me...screw you!"