olger Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 Travis, you stated in 2010 that you do not believe that absolute universal truth exists. Do you still believe that, or have you changed your mind? regards, g Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.."
MariaS Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 We have been worshiping Allah all along..the true Allah of Creator.. Allah is Arabic and Malay language which simply means = GOD Quote The rules of life - Love and serve God - Remember choices, not circumstances, determine the flavor of our lives - Live each day so that you'll never be afraid of tomorrow nor ashamed of yesterday
Members phkrause Posted March 5, 2011 Members Posted March 5, 2011 We have been worshiping Allah all along..the true Allah of Creator.. Allah is Arabic and Malay language which simply means = GOD Good point MariaS. Like I've mentioned in a previous post, just because people have purvered(sp) the meaning of God in what ever langauge or however they call him, doesn't mean its not the same God. Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Guest Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 Jesus did not worship Allah but Yahweh, or Jehovah. The Allah of the Koran is an imposter and a deceiver who dresses up as the God of the Bible, but whose words betray him. The Koran claims that Allah is the one who made the heavens and the earth, but the Bible teaches that it was Jesus Christ who, together with the the Father and the Holy Spirit, created the world and the whole universe. Notice verse 117 says that Allah "caused Jesus to die." All the Muslim commentators say that this phrase teaches that Jesus died a natural death. "This verse (117) is a conclusive proof that Jesus died a natural death, and is not now alive in heaven. Here Jesus says that so long as he was among thhis followers he was a witness of their condition, and he did not find them holding the belief in his Divinity. The logical conclusion of this statemetn is that the false doctrine of his Divinity was introduced into the Christian faith AFTER his death, after "Thou didst cause me to die." (See The Holy Qur'an with English Translation and Commentary, Maulana Muhammad Ali, page 283.) This goes along with 3: 55-- [3.55] And when Allah said: O Isa, I am going to terminate the period of your stay (on earth)[i will cause thee to die] and cause you to ascend unto Me and purify you of those who disbelieve and make those who follow you above those who disbelieve to the day of resurrection; then to Me shall be your return, so I will decide between you concerning that in which you differed. [3.56] Then as to those who disbelieve, I will chastise them with severe chastisement in this world and the hereafter, and they shall have no helpers. [3.57] And as to those who believe and do good deeds, He will pay them fully their rewards; and Allah does not love the unjust. Allah of the Koran, and the God of the Bible, are not the same God. But if the word Allah means "The God of the Bible" to you, then I guess that is ok. Quote
Guest Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 I'm letting the Qur'an itself define it. As you say, "Allah" means "God." But the Bible God named Yahweh and Elohim and Yeshua is not the same as the God that the Qur'an describes. This is as clear with respect to the Qur'an as it is for the Apocrypha and for similar reasons. Have you studied the Qur'an itself? If so, where does the Qur'an teach that Jesus Christ is God and the Son of God (Allah)? Doesn't the Qur'an deny that Jesus is the Son of Allah? Doesn't it teach that Ishmael was the son which God commanded Abraham to sacrifice? So I am not talking about all the various ideas and beliefs among Islam. My subject is the teachings of the Qur'an as opposed to the teachings of the Bible. My theme is that they cannot both be inspired by the same God since they contradict each other in some very significant, fundamental ways. One of the most significant is that the Qur'an denies that the forgiveness of sins necessited the death of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. It says, moreover, that those who believe Jesus was the Son of Allah and that He died on the cross will be punished along with the unbelievers. Let me know if you have never seen where the Qur'an teaches these things, and I will be glad to quote them again. Quote
Moderators John317 Posted March 5, 2011 Moderators Posted March 5, 2011 We have been worshiping Allah all along..the true Allah of Creator.. Allah is Arabic and Malay language which simply means = GOD Yes, I have also mentioned this before. The pronunciation of the name isn't all that important, but my point here would be that the Allah portrayed in the Koran is definitely not the God of the Bible. Not unless God is accustomed to telling people contradictory things, and I don't believe that the true, living God does that. If He does, then we have a problem. The Koran cannot be true at the same time that the Bible is true. There are many points of agreement between the Koran and the Bible, for sure; but we cannot ignore the significant differences and contradictions between them, either. Does anyone have any doubt, for instance, that the Koran teaches against the Trinity-- that is, against the idea that Jesus Christ is the Son of God or that the Holy Spirit is the third person of the Godhead? Where's the evidence that the Koran teaches Jesus Christ shed his blood on the cross for the remission of sins? I just do not see the same God portrayed in the Koran that I find in the Bible. This seems strange to me given the fact that Mohammad claimed that the Koran was dictated to him word for word by the angel Gabriel, who gave the very words of Allah. So my question is, why would Allah dictate the false words that we find in the Koran? For instance, as I pointed out before, the Koran clearly says that Abraham's first son was the one whom the patriarch was commanded to sacrifice. Consequently this is the standard belief of Muslims. Also, Allah puts words in the mouth of Jesus that he never uttered. AS someone who associates often with Muslims and probably knows the Koran, what are your thoughts, Maria? :-) Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
olger Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 i am rather uncomfortable with this whole Allah thing. At best it seems like unecessary accomodationism, and at worst the white flag of surrender. I am going to make a strong statement. People haven't understood the gospel until they understand the exclusivity of Chrst. We have no other door and option to offer people than that which the Father has given (John 10). Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.."
Moderators John317 Posted March 5, 2011 Moderators Posted March 5, 2011 I would never tell anyone that I worship or pray to Allah. I'm in contact by FB with a Muslim who believes in Christ and the Bible, but he told me recently that if he found that the Bible teaches the Trinity, he would throw out the Bible. He has also said that we all worship Allah and that he doesn't like any talk about "converting to Christianity" or "converting to Islam." He tells me that I am a Muslim, and I reply that I am Muslim only in the sense that I submit to Christ and His commandments. I've already told him that I don't accept the Koran as my authority but only the Bible. He says he accepts Ellen White as a true prophet but at the same time he says that if she teaches the Trinity, he will reject her. He will only believe something if it is in the Koran. So at this point, I have to ask the question how seriously he really believes the Bible to be the word of God. He seems to put his own understanding above the testimony of the Bible. If I really believe the Bible, I will be interested in changing my mind if my mind is not in line with the Bible. But in this case, it seems that there's an attempt to make the Bible conform to the Koran. I would ask people to pray for this person and to pray for me that I will have wisdom to know what to say to him. Incidently he grew up in Antioch which is mentioned in Acts 13: 42-44. He's married to an SDA lady from Sweden. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted March 5, 2011 Moderators Posted March 5, 2011 i am rather uncomfortable with this whole Allah thing. At best it seems like unecessary accomodationism, and at worst the white flag of surrender. I believe somewhat the same. I think we need to be willing to tell people that Christ is the only way to God and salvation, because that is what the Bible teaches. There is no way that we can find God and salvation through the Buddhist or Hindu scriptures, and while I might point some truths out in those books when speaking with people in those religions, I am not going to tell them that they can find the gospel there. That would be a lie. It would be a lie for me to imply that the Koran teaches the gospel and can lead people to salvation. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Guest Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 Originally Posted By: olger i am rather uncomfortable with this whole Allah thing. At best it seems like unecessary accomodationism, and at worst the white flag of surrender. I believe somewhat the same. I think we need to be willing to tell people that Christ is the only way to God and salvation, because that is what the Bible teaches. There is no way that we can find God and salvation through the Buddhist or Hindu scriptures, and while I might point some truths out in those books when speaking with people in those religions, I am not going to tell them that they can find the gospel there. That would be a lie. It would be a lie for me to imply that the Koran teaches the gospel and can lead people to salvation. Hear Here!! Quote
Guest Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 Travis, you stated in 2010 that you do not believe that absolute universal truth exists. Do you still believe that, or have you changed your mind? regards, g Good question.....well Travis? Quote
SivartM Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 Travis, you stated in 2010 that you do not believe that absolute universal truth exists. Do you still believe that, or have you changed your mind? regards, g When did I say that? I don't recall ever believing that. Can you find the post where I said that? Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus
MariaS Posted March 6, 2011 Posted March 6, 2011 Originally Posted By: MariaS We have been worshiping Allah all along..the true Allah of Creator.. Allah is Arabic and Malay language which simply means = GOD Good point MariaS. Like I've mentioned in a previous post, just because people have purvered(sp) the meaning of God in what ever langauge or however they call him, doesn't mean its not the same God. Quote The rules of life - Love and serve God - Remember choices, not circumstances, determine the flavor of our lives - Live each day so that you'll never be afraid of tomorrow nor ashamed of yesterday
olger Posted March 6, 2011 Posted March 6, 2011 Originally Posted By: olger Travis, you stated in 2010 that you do not believe that absolute universal truth exists. Do you still believe that, or have you changed your mind? regards, g When did I say that? I don't recall ever believing that. Can you find the post where I said that? It was Spring of last year. You stated that truth was relative instead of absolute. It appears that you still lean towards that premise. No? Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.."
Woody Posted March 6, 2011 Author Posted March 6, 2011 Well ... none of us have all the truth. I can tell you that. There are not two people here on this forum who believe alike in all issues. Unless you consider Og as the sole and absolute keeper of truth. ? Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â
SivartM Posted March 6, 2011 Posted March 6, 2011 It was Spring of last year. You stated that truth was relative instead of absolute. It appears that you still lean towards that premise. No? It would be great if you could find my exact words. I've never believed that truth was relative. Of course there is absolute truth, but it's unlikely that either of us know it and we wouldn't know if we did. Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus
Woody Posted March 6, 2011 Author Posted March 6, 2011 Good Point SivartM Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â
olger Posted March 6, 2011 Posted March 6, 2011 heh heh Let's paraphrase that: "Truth is absolute but we can't know it.." Classic hardline postmodernism. Where do you come up with this stuff? Outside the Bible for sure. "Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:32). all the best, Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.."
SivartM Posted March 6, 2011 Posted March 6, 2011 heh heh Let's paraphrase that: "Truth is absolute but we can't know it.." Classic hardline postmodernism. Where do you come up with this stuff? Outside the Bible for sure. "Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:32). How do you know that you know the truth? Have you ever known that something was true and then later decided that it was not true, or have you always believed exactly what you believe now? Is there a possibility that you could be wrong now? Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus
Woody Posted March 6, 2011 Author Posted March 6, 2011 Quote: "Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:32). Oh cool. I do know the truth that that verse is talking about. That is referring to the Gospel man. That is cool. It's all that other truth that I don't get yet. Why do you think we will be studying for all of eternity? Again ... name two people who agree in all areas of truth. Come on .... give it a try. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â
Woody Posted March 6, 2011 Author Posted March 6, 2011 Originally Posted By: olger heh heh Let's paraphrase that: "Truth is absolute but we can't know it.." Classic hardline postmodernism. Where do you come up with this stuff? Outside the Bible for sure. "Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:32). How do you know that you know the truth? Have you ever known that something was true and then later decided that it was not true, or have you always believed exactly what you believe now? Is there a possibility that you could be wrong now? Excellent point SivartM. I know that I've grown in my understanding of truth a lot during the last few years. For sure ... I would like to proclaim that I've not arrived yet. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â
Moderators John317 Posted March 6, 2011 Moderators Posted March 6, 2011 How do you know that you know the truth? Have you ever known that something was true and then later decided that it was not true, or have you always believed exactly what you believe now? Is there a possibility that you could be wrong now? 1 John 2:3-4 And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. [4] Whoever says "I know him" but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, 1 John 2:21 I write to you, not because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and because no lie is of the truth. 1 John 2:29 If you know that he is righteous, you may be sure that everyone who practices righteousness has been born of him. 1 John 3:2 Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:5 You know that he appeared to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. 1 John 3:14-15 We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brothers. Whoever does not love abides in death. [15] Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:19 By this we shall know that we are of the truth and reassure our heart before him. 1 John 3:24 Whoever keeps his commandments abides in him, and he in them. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us. 1 John 4:2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 1 John 4:6-8 We are from God. Whoever knows God listens to us; whoever is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the Spirit of truth and the spirit of error. [7] Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. [8] Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love. 1 John 4:13 By this we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit. 1 John 4:16 So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. 1 John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments. 1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life. 1 John 5:15 And if we know that he hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests that we have asked of him. 1 John 5:18-20 We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him. [19] We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one. [20] And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
SivartM Posted March 6, 2011 Posted March 6, 2011 So then you know absolutely that everything you believe is true, and none of your beliefs have ever changed? Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus
Moderators John317 Posted March 6, 2011 Moderators Posted March 6, 2011 Is that what those Bible texts say? What do they say? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.