La Sierra University makes a significant statement

[Overaged]

One of the things that many people complain about is that there IS NOT restraint on 'free speech" whatever that is.

The Adventist Church is actually known for allowing people to discuss their different views.

[Gerr]

Non SDA teachers have to be hired due to equal hiring practices, since the schools take federal monies for tuition grants. I agree this is a mistake. They could at least keep better control over curriculum, and if the non SDA teacher does not agree then they do not meet the requirements. This is the case in government schools all the time.

I don't believe the gov't can compel a church institution to hire someone who does not reflect the church's beliefs. But let's ask the lawyers - Tom? Jeannie?

[Amish]

Yea, Rick Warren, infamous CFR one-worlder. I believe he's on the wrong side of the great controversy.

____________________

The often overlooked Pit Beast

[Woody]

Non SDA teachers have to be hired due to equal hiring practices, since the schools take federal monies for tuition grants. I agree this is a mistake. They could at least keep better control over curriculum, and if the non SDA teacher does not agree then they do not meet the requirements. This is the case in government schools all the time.

But that's not all!

The schools have been supporting Satan's Feminist Movement for quite some time. This is no different than supporting abortion or any other anti family agenda. FM is not only anti family it is anti culture country and church. God put the His plan for the family in the adulty commandment and wants that we should all get married. Too many single people seeking college and work as alternative to family causes many problems in society including homosexaulity, fornication, and the sex addictions we see on the internet. Single people often break other families apart. The SDA church really droppped the ball on this. God's plan for the family is there for good reason.

What about posters who are not members of the SDA church? Should we not allow them a voice on this forum?

[Woody]

Yea, Rick Warren, infamous CFR one-worlder. I believe he's on the wrong side of the great controversy.

No matter what preacher you might choose ... SDA or NON-SDA ... you will have some disagreement with them. At least I know that "I" do.

I would prefer Warren over people like Walter Veith say.

[Gerr]

I find Walter Veith interesting. I believe he is teaching doctrines that the world & SDAs need to hear.

[Woody]

I find Walter Veith interesting. I believe he is teaching doctrines that the world needs to hear.

See. This is exactly my point. No matter what preacher you name ... there will be some who don't like him and some who do.

Personally I don't think Veith preaches the true SDA message. But others do. To each his or her own.

[ClubV12]

Someone asked:

1. Not enough bloodshed (or, at least, jobshed) for your taste? Is that would it would take...?

Quite right, not enough jobshed for my taste.

Two things come to mind:

1. It sounds like there are educators there that are not willing, not courageous enough, to take a stand on creation, preferring politically correct "science" instead. Such educators, that being the case, should be terminated, or strongly censured at the very least. Take it to another level, those that hired them or tolerated such behaviour should also be seriously considered for termination. It's either an SDA school,,, or it's not, there is no room for a gray area here.

2. IF they are taking Federal monies they are compromised. There is no hope of getting back on track, no matter what they do or how they address the problem. It's game over for LSU and ANY Adventist school that takes Federal or State funds and in turn has to meet Federal or State guidelines in hiring or teaching.

50% christian is a 100% lost.

[CoAspen]

Quote:

Too many single people seeking college and work as alternative to family causes many problems in society including homosexaulity, fornication, and the sex addictions we see on the internet. Single people often break other families apart.

"Mama's don't let your babies grow up to be single people."

(Apology to Waylon Jennings)

I am going to add the above quote to my list of things that cause all those sex issues! The list has gotten so long and comprehensive that the only way to avoid any of these issues is to not be born!

Yessire, single and education lead to hell!!!

[doug yowell]

What about posters who are not members of the SDA church? Should we not allow them a voice on this forum?

We already do! Check out the previous poster,they're Amish!! Sheesh already.

[Stan]

wow 25 people have liked this to facebook!

[HeartSeeker]

‎"People of faith who look at scientific data can reach differing conclusions and still be collegial as brothers and sisters in the church."

(Quoting LSU President R. Wisbey)

Have we been as neighborly as we are called to be,

within and with...out the SDA church?

Does truth trump relationship?

How do we resolve these two at-times seemingly divergent values?

Does anyone here even understand what the brouhaha stemmed from?

And if not, why the rush to inquisition and stake?

The broader question (there are many) that i wish to ask;

why are we so ready, on hearsay and smug pride, willing to vilify anyone who seems to express divergent, even diametric opinion?

All whilst crowing exclusive take on said particular topic...

What I'm wondering, is how long it will take AU/MC to apologize to LSU...

[Amish]

Quote:

The schools have been supporting Satan's Feminist Movement for quite some time. This is no different than supporting abortion or any other anti family agenda. FM is not only anti family it is anti culture country and church. God put His plan for the family in the adultry commandment and wants that we should all get married. Too many single people seeking college and work as alternative to family causes many problems in society including homosexaulity, fornication, and the sex addictions we see on the internet. Single people often break other families apart. The SDA church really droppped the ball on this. God's plan for the family is there for good reason.

"Mama's don't let your babies grow up to be single people."

(Apology to Waylon Jennings)

I am going to add the above quote to my list of things that cause all those sex issues! The list has gotten so long and comprehensive that the only way to avoid any of these issues is to not be born!

Yessire, single and education lead to hell!!!

I don't know about the rest of your list but, there is a commandment about adultry.

____________________________________

The often overlooked Pit Beast

[Tom Wetmore]

Originally Posted By: Amish

Non SDA teachers have to be hired due to equal hiring practices, since the schools take federal monies for tuition grants. I agree this is a mistake. They could at least keep better control over curriculum, and if the non SDA teacher does not agree then they do not meet the requirements. This is the case in government schools all the time.

I don't believe the gov't can compel a church institution to hire someone who does not reflect the church's beliefs. But let's ask the lawyers - Tom? Jeannie?

Gerry, your understanding is indeed correct. Amish is wrong. Non-SDA teachers do not have to be hired, either generally or as a result of federally funded tuition grants. (Such grants are made to students not schools anyway.) Quite to the contrary to what Amish has assumed (speculated about or guessed at?) the law in fact protects the right of a religiously affiliated school, such as LSU, to discriminate in its hiring practices on the basis of religion.

[Amish]

Tom, then we'll just further assume the school is in apostasy of its own doings, which explains alot.

You're saying you don't believe the schools have to support fair hiring practices like the SDA hospitals? Because that is what they say about their non SDA staff.

Anyway i'm sure it all could have been avoided.

[Tom Wetmore]

First of all, your assumption being wrong means you just struck out in your time a bat... Three strikes and you are out. (I am calling your goofy statements about singleness, family values,etc. a foul ball...)

But more importantly, you might want to familiarize yourself with what apostacy actually means before you carelessly start throwing it around.

[Overaged]

Do you know what it means Tom?

[Tom Wetmore]

Yes. How about you?

By most common dictionary definitions of apostasy it means a total desertion or departure from one's religious faith.

From the Encyclopedia Britannica:

"the total rejection of Christianity by a baptized person who, having at one time professed the Christian [read here as "Adventist"...] faith, publicly rejects it. It is distinguished from heresy, which is limited to the rejection of one or more Christian doctrines by one who maintains an overall adherence to Jesus Christ."

Maybe there are those who believe or teach heresy of one sort or another amongst the folk at LSU, but apostasy of anyone there, much less the whole institution, no.

[Bravus]

Thanks for some clarity, Tom.

Amish has arrived with a bang as a passionate 'accuser of the brethren'.

To whom does Scripture give that title?

[Jeannieb43]

Wow. I just finished reading this lengthy thread. I can't believe how so many laymen [laypersons?] are standing up and pretending to be experts in the field of science education. Rather blows my mind.

I myself graduated from college [more than 50 years ago, but they were teaching science then too...], and have earned a couple of postgraduate degrees subsequently. But I would never deign to insert myself into such a discussion, pretending to be an expert! I am not a scientist. I do not understand how one interprets the carbon dating, etc. But my good friend from many years ago, Dr. Peter (aka Ed) Hare WAS a scientist. And a Seventh-day Adventist in good standing. He passed away a few years ago, but before he died he stated that he could not corroborate the age of the earth's matter with the seven 24-hour-day Creation understanding with which he grew up [being Eric B. Hare's son, he well knew our doctrines]. Well, I too believe the Bible. I also believe that current scientific skills are allowing scientists to date some of the earth's matter and show that it is extremely old.

I personally don't feel qualified to stand up and criticize the university president of LSU for what he says or does; neither do I pretend any qualification in the area of teaching science. So I'm really shocked at some of the mud being thrown here on those who run our Adventist university, La Sierra, and on those who teach science there. WE don't have the credentials to do so!! [with perhaps the exception of Bravus--and he has been extremely diplomatic, you may notice]

Wasn't it Abraham Lincoln who said, "It's better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt."

[epaminondas]

Come on, this will make no difference. La Sierra is just a small little institution with, according to their website, "nearly 2,000 students." For a university, that's seriously small. Many of them will be in the arts and crafts and not come close to science subjects, unless it's a dumbed down one semester course. That leaves even less exposed to creation teaching. Did it make national or state news? This is a storm in a teacup.

[epaminondas]

My qualifications are in medicine, consultant for many years, and information technology. I understand some of the issues involved.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

It is clear that the curtain lifts on an Earth in a chaotic state, but an Earth, nonetheless. On which creation day was matter made? The Bible doesn't say. Light was made (to appear on Earth) on the first day, etc.

The whole creation story is told from the perspective of someone on Earth. The planet Earth, and other planets and stars, and matter, may be aeons old. That fits in with the story in Genesis one.

[Overaged]

Yes. How about you?

By most common dictionary definitions of apostasy it means a total desertion or departure from one's religious faith.

From the Encyclopedia Britannica:

"the total rejection of Christianity by a baptized person who, having at one time professed the Christian [read here as "Adventist"...] faith, publicly rejects it. It is distinguished from heresy, which is limited to the rejection of one or more Christian doctrines by one who maintains an overall adherence to Jesus Christ."

Maybe there are those who believe or teach heresy of one sort or another amongst the folk at LSU, but apostasy of anyone there, much less the whole institution, no.

Just as I thought. You actually don't know. All you can do is quote a dictionary. And how might you prove your last sentence?

[Stan]

**cough cough***

[Overaged]

Thanks for some clarity, Tom.

Amish has arrived with a bang as a passionate 'accuser of the brethren'.

To whom does Scripture give that title?

So you are calling someone "Satan" are you Mister Scientist? I thought I read Jeannieb43's post that called you "diplomatic?" Hmmmm I'll have to borrow Tom's dictionary.