La Sierra University makes a significant statement

[MariaS]

Too much damage has been done, I hope some ex-students realized the error and go back to the right path. Many may realised it was wrong at that time..but I beliave some one may have bought their wrong teaching on creation.

Good Lord be merciful to us sinners!

[ClubV12]

Good point Bravus, there are better words that fit this issue, better than apostate.

[Overaged]

Well; lets just be a little more blunt then. Why hasn't anyone used the Bible to describe apostasy, or with all the EGW quoting why not go to writings that have some Biblical authority?

Apostasy does not mean "disagreement" yet that is what Bravus says has been intended by anyone using the term here. That simply is not true. And OK; if you say there are "better" words to use, how bout sharing them?

I still would say apostasy is a very good word for this situation.

[Dr. Shane]

It is wrong to join the Boy Scouts and insist that everyone wear Girl-Guide uniforms, yet still call yourself a Boy Scout

Forget Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts. Pfft! Who are they?

[Bravus]

Pathfinders rocks!

[Bravus]

Well; lets just be a little more blunt then. Why hasn't anyone used the Bible to describe apostasy, or with all the EGW quoting why not go to writings that have some Biblical authority?

Apostasy does not mean "disagreement" yet that is what Bravus says has been intended by anyone using the term here. That simply is not true. And OK; if you say there are "better" words to use, how bout sharing them?

I still would say apostasy is a very good word for this situation.

Yep, which is why I said you're using the word with a private definition.

Not worth spending a lot of energy on, but words mean things.

[Overaged]

No; I did not give a definition and all I have done so far is to challenge the ones being brought forth...you'll have to try again.

[Overaged]

LOL, what does "Pffft!" mean?

[Woody]

LOL, what does "Pffft!" mean?

Don't you understand Canadian?

[Overaged]

Is that "Canadian?" Wow! I didn't know that! I think I had better go back to my excercise room and do those 200 situps I am supposed to do. Might be better for me than to learn how to speak "Canadian."

[Tom Wetmore]

No; I did not give a definition and all I have done so far is to challenge the ones being brought forth...you'll have to try again.

OK Humpty Dumpty. Have it your way. Words mean whatever you want them to mean. If you may play by that rule, I say the word "creationism" means "the process by which things came into being over a span of time as the result of an initial cosmic explosion." Now a simple yes or no question for you. Do you believe in creationism?

If you do not accept and use words as defined in dictionaries you make as much sense as that scene from Alice in Wonderland. You cannot be understood and you understand nobody. You might as well speak Swahili to Eskimos.

[Overaged]

Dear Tom

If you cannot accept even a simple Bible or spirit of prophecy based definition of the word apostasy, what have you really got to offer here?

But in light of the general angst of your last post, yes; I have been known to sell freezers to Eskimos.

[Bravus]

Still waiting on those Bible and SOP based definitions...

Edit: Particularly since the Bible never uses either the word 'apostasy' or 'apostate'.

[ClubV12]

Plain english means, what the "man on the street" would interpret your words to mean, not what the dictionary might say. The words are plain enough to me, apostasy is useful in that regard for this situation. Is there a better word, or a more soothing word some would prefer? Perhaps, a word that might tickle your ears? Perhaps, but still, apostasy is accurate enough.

Consider the Galations that Paul had to deal with, their apostasy! And yet, there were still going to church. Still proclaiming, for the most part, to be believers. A STRICT definition of the word apostasy would not fit the Galations, or so it would appear. And yet, there it is, chapter 36, "Acts of the Apostles", the apostasy of Galatia. Reference is made to a group of TEACHERS and their apostate message. Hmmm,,, teachers, well now, thats an interesting group....

[Overaged]

Still waiting on those Bible and SOP based definitions...

Edit: Particularly since the Bible never uses either the word 'apostasy' or 'apostate'.

Well we all know where that "science" is going to go...This is like saying there is no word "trinity" in the Bible, not even worth the time of day.

[Gerr]

Still waiting on those Bible and SOP based definitions...

Edit: Particularly since the Bible never uses either the word 'apostasy' or 'apostate'.

ESV | Je 2:19 Your evil will chastise you, and your apostasy will reprove you. Know and see that it is evil and bitter for you to forsake the LORD your God; the fear of me is not in you, declares the Lord GOD of hosts.

4878 מְשׁוּבָה [mâshuwbah, mâshubah /mesh·oo·baw/] n f. From 7725; TWOT 2340c; GK 5412; 12 occurrences; AV translates as “backsliding” 11 times, and “turning away” once. 1 turning away, turning back, apostasy, backsliding.

Strong, J. (1996). The exhaustive concordance of the Bible : Showing every word of the text of the common English version of the canonical books, and every occurrence of each word in regular order. (electronic ed.). Ontario: Woodside Bible Fellowship.

NAS | 2 Th 2:3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,

646. ἀποστασία apostasía; gen. apostasías, fem. noun from aphístēmi (868), to depart. Departure, apostasy. Occurs in Acts 21:21 translated “forsake” and in 2 Thess. 2:3, “a falling away”; Sept.: 2 Chr. 29:19; Jer. 29:32. In Acts 21:21 the new Christian believers among the Jews, having departed from Moses and coming to Jesus Christ, decided that they should stay apart from Moses, i.e., their Judaistic practices, for they were in a new dispensation. They were not Judaizing Christians, but Christians standing apart from Moses. In 2 Thess. 2:3 the word apostasía does not refer to genuine Christians who depart from the faith, but mere professors who, without divine grace, succumb to the Satanic deception of the Antichrist. If those who are truly Christ’s and through the Holy Spirit have become members of His body (1 Cor. 12:13) could be detached, then the assurances Jesus gave that His own will not perish would be made null and void (John 10:28, 29). See Sept.: 2 Chr. 29:19.

Zodhiates, S. (2000). The complete word study dictionary : New Testament (electronic ed.). Chattanooga, TN: AMG Publishers.

One of the greatest dangers that besets the people of God today, is that of association with the ungodly; especially in uniting themselves in marriage with unbelievers. With many, the love for the human eclipses the love for the divine. They take the first step in backsliding by venturing to disregard the Lord’s express command; and complete apostasy is too often the result. It has ever proved a dangerous thing for men to carry out their own will in opposition to the requirements of God. Yet it is a hard lesson for men to learn that God means what He says.

Nichol, F. D. (1978; 2002). The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary, Volume 2 (1000). Review and Herald Publishing Association.

(1 John 2:3, 4.) The True Sign of Sanctification.—Those who dishonor God by transgressing His law may talk sanctification, but it is of that value, and just as acceptable, as was the offering of Cain. Obedience to all the commandments of God is the only true sign of sanctification. Disobedience is the sign of disloyalty and apostasy (MS 41, 1897

Nichol, F. D. (1978; 2002). The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary, Volume 7 (908). Review and Herald Publishing Association.

[Bravus]

Nice work, Gerry, and fair enough. I tried the NIV and KJV but not an exhaustive search of all versions for the word, and of course the concept is there.

You've rather let Overaged off the hook, though: he was the one pushing the barrow and making the big claims, and should have been required to do his own study to back them up. It's easy to snipe, much harder to do good Bible scholarship to back up the claims. (Easier to post a picture of a cow.)

I would still maintain that 'apostasy' is a poor and misleading choice of words to describe the LSU situation, and those Bible texts do more to support than undermine that view.

But as I said a couple of pages ago, I'm not sure it's worth a lot of energy.

LSU students were always getting a good education, and now they'll get a good education with a guaranteed emphasis on creationism. The controversy is over, and the activists need to move on.

[ClubV12]

...we can only hope it's over at LSU, time will tell, best to keep an eye on it for a bit. It leaves me wondering why it took so long to come out? And where the next similiar issue will strike? What other stuff is going on, at LSU and other SDA schools we are still not aware of?

Scary thought is, "we don't know, what we don't know", quote from the CIA. We might not find out in a timely manner either. The issue is far from over as I see it and may well extend beyond this small campus. It may involve issues that are as serious as creation vs evolution or worse. Just how insidious is this thing?

[Guest]

...we can only hope it's over at LSU, time will tell, best to keep an eye on it for a bit. It leaves me wondering why it took so long to come out? And where the next similiar issue will strike? What other stuff is going on, at LSU and other SDA schools we are still not aware of?

Scary thought is, "we don't know, what we don't know", quote from the CIA. We might not find out in a timely manner either. The issue is far from over as I see it and may well extend beyond this small campus. It may involve issues that are as serious as creation vs evolution or worse. Just how insidious is this thing?

I think you're right...

[Bravus]

Might as well just get out of the education business entirely, it's the only way to be sure.

[Guest]

Disobedience is the sign of disloyalty and apostasy (MS 41, 1897

That pretty well sums it up.

[Tom Wetmore]

OK, a bit of etymology on the word further confirms that the present day meaning really has not drifted much from its root meanings as would have been understood in NT times. The English word "apostasy" is derived from the Greek word apostasia, which means "a falling away, defection". The neuter form is apostasion which means "divorce, repudiation, a bill of divorce". Both words are used in the NT. If you drill down further in the root words from which these Greek words are derived you find the underlying concepts of removal withdrawal, desertion, fleeing or departing from, shunning, becoming faithless, a separation such that the relationship is destroyed.

There you have it, the Biblical basis of what apostasy means. This tends to confirm the point I have previously made.

[CoAspen]

Ah, but senor...we only drill so far! When we find answer we like, we stop drilling and every body happy! Si!

[ClubV12]

Drill baby, drill!!!

...you betcha...

[Guest]

Drill everywhere!