Members phkrause Posted March 19, 2011 Members Posted March 19, 2011 God can be jealous without the absence of love. But you probably can't. I most definite3ly agree with that Richard. Some try to bring God down to our level of thinking. phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Dr. Rich Posted March 20, 2011 Posted March 20, 2011 P and P? Huh? Isn't this the book where EGW said that Noah preached for 120 years? You can't find this in the bible. Picking fiction books by EGW is not going to lead you to the narrow road.
Dr. Rich Posted March 20, 2011 Posted March 20, 2011 Woody, I am a truth seeker and obey what Jesus told us to do, and that was to build your foundation upon HIS words ONLY. Do you see anything wrong with that? I choose Jesus over Paul any day. But that is MY own choice as you can choose to thumb your nose at what Jesus said. I wrote what I did because my fellow Adventists need a wake up call. It's hard to just sit here watching them sleep their way to the wide road to hell all the while mistakenly believing God loves them because of grace and faith. I am not mad at you Woody, I am mad at Satan who used Paul and EGW to deceive those who could become servants of Jesus, but don't want to wash the mud off their eyes by thinking they already see. So, if you find something wrong with what I wrote, don't make fun of me and call me names, prove your point. I proved that Paul's words about love were a lie and you and Richard just don't want to believe it because you think you know more than God. Hmmm?
LifeHiscost Posted March 20, 2011 Posted March 20, 2011 I like the gospel, pure and simple, albeit deep enough to stretch the mind. Gail, one need never pre-qualify by explanation, purely and simply receiving Jesus, especially in light of this Word from Jesus Himself. "I tell you the truth, anyone who doesn’t receive the Kingdom of God like a child will never enter it.”"Mark 10:15 NLT Little children are not known, as far as I am aware, to intellectualize their experience with Jesus. I have a daughter, who after years of wandering in dry and barren places, has received Jesus as a little child and her conversations make me weep as I see my own prayers on her behalf being fulfilled, while her faith in Him puts my own faith to shame, even as she picks up on the Scriptures I repeat to her. God blesses! Lift Jesus up!!
Dr. Rich Posted March 20, 2011 Posted March 20, 2011 Richard, can you please be so kind as to prove what you wrote: "God can be jealous without the absence of love. But you probably can't." How is it that your mind is greater than God's? God was perfectly clear with what He gave us in the Covenant--the Ten Commandments. He shows LOVE to those who love Him by showing it by obeying and keeping all of the commandments. (Ex. 20:6) [Words deleted by moderator.] Not a very nice thing to do in my opinion. Answer this: Why didn't Jesus come along time ago if Paul's gospel is correct and all we need is grace? Answer this too: Do you understand all of the book of Revelation? If any of you don't, then it should be a wake up call as it was only written to be understood by the servants of Jesus. (Rev. 1:1 and Dan. 12:10) These are not my words, they are God's words! But I don't want to leave you dissapointed, if anyone here does want to understand, then let me know.
LifeHiscost Posted March 20, 2011 Posted March 20, 2011 I would say to those that label it this way or that with out reading are following the path that conservative christians often follow, never try to understand the other persons point of view, you might get damanged. Excuse me for picking on you, CoAspen, but I'm sure you, being a conservative, know full well what conservatives often follow. Maybe you could enumerate them for us and reveal them so we could be warned of what not to do as a conservative. God blesses! Lift Jesus up!!
LifeHiscost Posted March 20, 2011 Posted March 20, 2011 Praise God we will be changed when we See His Face at the second coming. As I understand it, the only thing we're going to take from this world is the righteousness, ie: character, that Jesus Christ works out in our lives. Therefor if a person has no character worth saving in heaven, he not only wouldn't be happy there, he wouldn't be there at all. "For God is working in you, giving you the desire and the power to do what pleases him."Phil 2:13 NLT God blesses! Lift Jesus up!!
LifeHiscost Posted March 20, 2011 Posted March 20, 2011 Every heart is on one side of the fence or the other. Either the heart clings to sin and cherishes it OR the heart longs to be free from sin. The heart that cherishes sin would never be happy in heaven and God, loving everyone, would never place such a person where the person would be miserable for eternity. The heart longing to be free from sin will rejoice in heaven, beyond the reach of the tempter. Free at last will be his or her cry. Amen, and Boom Shakalaka ! Lift Jesus up!!
Woody Posted March 20, 2011 Posted March 20, 2011 Quote: don't make fun of me and call me names Oh. I am so sorry. I was not aware that I called you any names. Please point this out so I can apologize. May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Woody Posted March 20, 2011 Posted March 20, 2011 Originally Posted By: Woody Praise God we will be changed when we See His Face at the second coming. As I understand it, the only thing we're going to take from this world is the righteousness, ie: character, that Jesus Christ works out in our lives. Therefor if a person has no character worth saving in heaven, he not only wouldn't be happy there, he wouldn't be there at all. "For God is working in you, giving you the desire and the power to do what pleases him."Phil 2:13 NLT God blesses! I think our prophet puts it best ... that our characters are not worth saving. In fact ... they are so bad that have to be covered by Jesus: "Since we are sinful, unholy, we cannot perfectly obey the holy law. We have no righteousness of our own with which to meet the claims of the law of God. But Christ has made a way of escape for us. He lived on earth amid trials and temptations such as we have to meet. He lived a sinless life. He died for us, and now He offers to take our sins and give us His righteousness. If you give yourself to Him, and accept Him as your Saviour, then, sinful as your life may have been, for His sake you are accounted righteous. Christ's character stands in place of your character, and you are accepted before God just as if you had not sinned." Steps to Christ p. 62 "So I will be your representative in heaven. The Father beholds not your faulty character, but He sees you as clothed in My perfection." DA 357 May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
LifeHiscost Posted March 20, 2011 Posted March 20, 2011 For those of you who think you love God and that God is 'love', this should be a wake up call. Either you love God by keeping ALL of His commandments and are then loved back by God, OR you thumb your nose at God and lie when you say that you love Him and that God loves you because you refuse to obey Him and keep ALL of His commandments. "For no prophecy ever originated because some man willed it [to do so--it never came by human impulse], but men spoke from God who were borne along (moved and impelled) by the Holy Spirit."2 Peter 1:21 AMP brackets their's LHC And when men learn that men moved by the Holy Spirit speak in concert by the power of love, they will see that the inconsistencies found in the Scriptures are a lack of understanding by the reader, not a reason for dismissal of the person chosen by God to speak for Him. God blesses! Lift Jesus up!!
Moderators John317 Posted March 20, 2011 Moderators Posted March 20, 2011 Richard, can you please be so kind as to prove what you wrote: "God can be jealous without the absence of love. But you probably can't." "God is love." It means that God Himself is love--- not that He has love. It is impossible for God to do anything without love. Everything He does is from the motive of love. Originally Posted By: Dr. Rich Answer this: Why didn't Jesus come along time ago if Paul's gospel is correct and all we need is grace? Where does Paul teach that grace is all the world needs in order for Christ to return? Paul actually does not contradict the words of Jesus in Matt., although it may seem so. Consider the following verses where Paul talks about things that must happen before Christ's return: 2 Thes. 2:3-10 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, [4] who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. [5] Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? [6] And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time. [7] For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way. [8] And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming. [9] The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, [10] and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. Originally Posted By: Dr. Rich Answer this too: Do you understand all of the book of Revelation? If any of you don't, then it should be a wake up call as it was only written to be understood by the servants of Jesus. (Rev. 1:1 and Dan. 12:10) These are not my words, they are God's words! But I don't want to leave you dissapointed, if anyone here does want to understand, then let me know. I'm sincerely glad you are studying the book of Revelation. No one understands it perfectly, so we all need to keep reading and studying it humbly & prayerfully, along with all the other books in the Bible. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
LifeHiscost Posted March 20, 2011 Posted March 20, 2011 Originally Posted By: LifeHiscost "For God is working in you, giving you the desire and the power to do what pleases him."Phil 2:13 NLT God blesses! I think our prophet puts it best ... that our characters are not worth saving. In fact ... they are so bad that have to be covered by Jesus: "Since we are sinful, unholy, we cannot perfectly obey the holy law. We have no righteousness of our own with which to meet the claims of the law of God. But Christ has made a way of escape for us. He lived on earth amid trials and temptations such as we have to meet. He lived a sinless life. He died for us, and now He offers to take our sins and give us His righteousness. If you give yourself to Him, and accept Him as your Saviour, then, sinful as your life may have been, for His sake you are accounted righteous. Christ's character stands in place of your character, and you are accepted before God just as if you had not sinned." Steps to Christ p. 62 "So I will be your representative in heaven. The Father beholds not your faulty character, but He sees you as clothed in My perfection." DA 357 It seems to me those words are in perfect agreement with the Scripture just above. Just as the Holy Spirit is able to separate the bone from the marrow, so also He is able to separate the uncleanness of a man from the sanctified behavior He has worked out in the person's life. "And may the God of peace Himself sanctify you through and through [separate you from profane things, make you pure and wholly consecrated to God]; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved sound and complete [and found] blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah)." 1 Thess 5:23 AMP God blesses! Lift Jesus up!!
Moderators John317 Posted March 20, 2011 Moderators Posted March 20, 2011 Here are some great promises worthy of our trust: If God’s people will sanctify themselves by obedience to His precepts, the Lord will work in their midst. He will renew humble, contrite souls, making their characters pure and holy.—Manuscript 128, 1897. {CTr 294.6} There are very many who claim to serve God, but who have no experimental knowledge of Him. Their desire to do His will is based upon their own inclination, not upon the deep conviction of the Holy Spirit. Their conduct is not brought into harmony with the law of God. They profess to accept Christ as their Saviour, but they do not believe that He will give them power to overcome their sins. They have not a personal relation with a living Saviour, and their characters reveal defects both hereditary and cultivated. {COL 48.1} ....The only hope for these souls is to realize in themselves the truth of Christ's words to Nicodemus, "Ye must be born again." "Except a man be born from above, he can not see the kingdom of God." John 3:7, 3, margin. {COL 48.3} It is now that we are to form characters for the future, immortal life. It is now that we are to prepare for the searching judgment. {COL 342.2} The human family have scarcely begun to live when they begin to die, and the world's incessant labor ends in nothingness unless a true knowledge in regard to eternal life is gained. The man who appreciates time as his working day will fit himself for a mansion and for a life that is immortal. It is well that he was born. {COL 342.3} We are admonished to redeem the time. But time squandered can never be recovered. We cannot call back even one moment. The only way in which we can redeem our time is by making the most of that which remains, by being co-workers with God in His great plan of redemption. {COL 342.4} In him who does this, a transformation of character takes place. He becomes a son of God, a member of the royal family, a child of the heavenly King. He is fitted to be the companion of the angels. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Woody Posted March 20, 2011 Posted March 20, 2011 God blesses! Amazing how we pick and choose which EGW quotes we want to believe. Why didn't I get that response for the EGW quotes I posted? Hmmmm Oh do I wish that people could correctly understand all of her writings. It gets exhausting for me to explain them. So, I guess you will have to do it on your own. As I am to tired. :) May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Moderators John317 Posted March 20, 2011 Moderators Posted March 20, 2011 P and P? Huh? Isn't this the book where EGW said that Noah preached for 120 years? You can't find this in the bible. Genesis 6:3 Then the Lord said, "My Spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years." Genesis 6:6-8 And the Lord was sorry that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart. [7] So the Lord said, "I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, man and animals and creeping things and birds of the heavens, for I am sorry that I have made them." [8] But Noah found favor in the eyes of the Lord. 2 Peter 2:5 if he did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a herald [proclaimer] of righteousness, with seven others, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly; 1 Peter 3:20 because they formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Dr. Rich Posted March 20, 2011 Posted March 20, 2011 Try as you will, you will not find anywhere in God's words that Noah preached to others for 120 years. Jesus confirmed that by Matthew 24:39 "and they did not understand until the flood came and stook them all away..." After all why preach a word when God told Noah only he and his family would be saved? What was Noah to do, say "Na, na na na, na? That sure wouldn't have been love. If God's love and grace was so great, why didn't He just save them by grace? After all, they had not even had a chance to hear about Jesus yet.
Guest Posted March 20, 2011 Posted March 20, 2011 Answer this: Why didn't Jesus come along time ago if Paul's gospel is correct and all we need is grace? Paul never said that's all you need. Yet you keep saying it, as if he did. It's high time you pulled your head out and stop spreading lies, so that you don't burn up. Either show where he said such a thing, or shut up. It's old already. The only thing you have to back up that claim, is your own mouth, and that's not what we are told to go by.
ClubV12 Posted March 20, 2011 Posted March 20, 2011 "After all, they had not even had a chance to hear about Jesus yet." Indeed they had an intimate knowledge of the plan of salvation and the messiah to come! In those days, mankind lived for hundreds of years. Their intellect was far superior to even our most brilliant people of today. For nearly a 1,000 years they had Adam who could recount precisely the details of what happened in the garden. They actually HAD the garden as well, guarded by angels to prevent anyone entering. Every person on earth knew and made a choice about the plan of salvation, but their thoughts became evil continually, over time. They flatly rejected Gods grace, they made a choice. Noahs work was to preach the message, no matter how despairing the work would be or appear to be. All the created intelligent beings were watching the developement of Gods plan and the outcome of Satans plan. It was to be made clear that every individual made a personal choice, so Noah kept preaching.
Woody Posted March 20, 2011 Posted March 20, 2011 BUMP Quote: don't make fun of me and call me names Oh. I am so sorry. I was not aware that I called you any names. Please point this out so I can apologize. May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted March 25, 2011 Author Administrators Posted March 25, 2011 Rob Bell speaks in his own defense - "> " type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> Listen very carefully to what he says about speaking against a group where the Spirit may be working... It echoes what Jesus said in Mark 3. "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.)
Members abelisle Posted March 25, 2011 Members Posted March 25, 2011 Love wins and wins all the time and will ultimately win at the 2nd Coming. Why am I saying this - because Universalism isn't quite the heresy it's made out to be. For example, if we are to be changed "in a twinkling of an eye" and our woefully sinful characters replaced by Jesus' character, who says that it's not possible for all to be saved, then changed, then re-educated - all in the spirit of love - the essence of who God is. There's a lot to be said for justice - that evildoers will get their just punishment, yet in the same context we speak of justice meted with mercy but it sounds from the rhetoric that some would rather not be in Heaven with certain other sinful people? And finally, we constantly speak of redemption, conversion, being reborn - the metanoic experience of Romans 12:2 "be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind" With Universalism, all these things can take place and I think the all-loving God I worship is bigger than simply being interested in exacting punishment on those who deserve it. Now I'll sit back and wait to read the stinging overtures of how heretical I am by saying this. Thank God that God is my judge. Alex We are our worst enemy - sad but true. http://abelisle.blogspot.com
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted March 25, 2011 Author Administrators Posted March 25, 2011 I prefer the company of heretics... IMHO, universalism makes many Christians uncomfortable, not because they doubt God is capable of fixing everything, but because they don't want him to and are afraid he just might do it. I believe in a God that can redeem anything... and everything. It does not trouble me to think that he might do just that. Time after time throughout history as recorded in Scripture, he took the least likely, the least worthy, the least promising, the worst excuses for humanity and redeemed them, turned them around, set them on his path to accomplish his purpose and called them his own. The last shall be first... To be God's chosen people is not a recognition of our worthiness, it is an act of Supreme mercy recognizing how he takes the worst and makes it the best. Out of a dung heap a beautiful flower grows... "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.)
Administrators Gail Posted March 25, 2011 Administrators Posted March 25, 2011 Well, the video clip didn't do much for me. I wish that he would have just come out and addressed the complaint. Oh, well. I have had some feedback from a local pastor that said that although he doesn't agree with everything the book says there are parts of it that make him think. Fair enough. That is pretty much what I have (through experience) come to expect from the latest that mainstream offers. To me they just seem like fads, though, and a bit milky, but I will credit a great, deep thought when I see one. The last really good (mainstream Christian) sermons I watched were by Andy Stanley. I know, my head's in a cloud. Excuse me as I pick up d'Aubigne's History of the Reformation... Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.
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