Love Wins

[hch]

The review certainly makes the book sound interesting. I would say to those that label it this way or that with out reading are following the path that conservative christians often follow, never try to understand the other persons point of view, you might get damanged. The review sounded even sided. The emphasis on Christ is what christianity is all about.....isn't it? Life is about questions, if we have none, I would suggest it has become stagnant.

Reviews are supposed to make books sound interesting

That is why they get them reviewed.

It is true: Love wins, & God wins

but sinners that don't return love to God

are lost.

love is evident through obedience not through profession

lots of people will say Lord, Lord and be sadly disappointed

because Jesus was not their Lord here and now

and He won't be their Lord then and there.

Thus if the premise is that everyone gets saved in the end

it is unscriptural from the beginning

[Guest]

This is what drives people nuts when people believe something without any proof! But then, isn't that what 'faith' is called?

If this is true, then you must have a whole lot of faith. More than most.

[abelisle]

"I have been shown" that universalism is in contradiction to annihilationism. I was shown that the greatest punishment (in reality an inevitable consequence) for wrongdoing and deliberate rebellion against the government of God is loss of existence as an individual subject of that government. The final result of wholehearted sin is annihilation.

Such sin-identified individuals have destroyed themselves by becoming wholly unreal through their embrace of iniquity. When their sentence is finally confirmed, the sin-identified being instantly becomes as though he had not been. There is no resurrection from such a fate; it is everlasting and eternal.

Undiluted evil, complete error, willful sin, and unmitigated iniquity are inherently and automatically suicidal.People with such a mindset, upon cessation of life, have their identities dissolved as if they never have been.

I have to confess that the idea of universalism sounded very intriquing and in direct association with God's omnipotent love but with further study and prayer, I now believe that I was wrong. As to how I have been shown, I will keep that private.

Alex

[Guest]

God said the same thing to Jonah, but it didn't happen did it?

That's because the people of Nineveh repented. If you believe Bible prophecy, then you know that the whole world is not going to repent.

[Guest]

I have to confess that the idea of universalism sounded very intriquing and in direct association with God's omnipotent love but with further study and prayer, I now believe that I was wrong. As to how I have been shown, I will keep that private.

Alex

I'm shocked. And impressed. May God bless his people with knowledge and truth.

[fccool]

How many people here actually read the book?

[Guest]

it's a bowl of crock

A crock IS a bowl.

crock [krok]

–noun

1. an earthenware pot, jar, or other container.

2. a fragment of earthenware; potsherd.

[Woody]

He meant a 'bowl of potsherd'.

[fccool]

It's my own alternative to swearing. So it makes as much sense as "doggon it", or "flying rip"... or swearing for that matter. I don't think anyone who would read it in context would be confused about what I'm trying to convey :)

[Guest]

Originally Posted By: John317

I don't now if people are saying it's heretical, but according to the book review, Bell sounds like someone who believes everyone is eventually going to be saved so that God gets what He wants. At least he think it's a possibility. I have too many other good things to read than spend time on a book which teaches that.

You would rather spend time thinking how God should act

No, he would rather spend time thinking of things that are actually in the Bible.

[fccool]

So, If God acts in a way that's not written into the Bible... and saves the entire human race, that would make him somehow less good? Is it you or your pride speaking there?

[Guest]

So, If God acts in a way that's not written into the Bible... and saves the entire human race, that would make him somehow less good?

It would not be just "some way that's not written in the Bible". It would be the exact opposite of what is revealed in scripture. Which would make the Bible a lie, and God a liar. Is that what you believe?

[abelisle]

In defense of fccool (love that name!), it seems as if some Christians feel as if they would be cheated if God didn't exact punishment on sinners, sort of how Jonah felt - "what God should do"

It speaks more of revenge than love - something that is antithetical to Christianity.

[Guest]

In defense of fccool (love that name!), it seems as if some Christians feel as if they would be cheated if God didn't exact punishment on sinners, sort of how Jonah felt - "what God should do"

It speaks more of revenge than love - something that is antithetical to Christianity.

Trusting the word of God has nothing to do with any of that.

[ClubV12]

This "conscience" thing, the innate ability to determine right from wrong, where does it come from?

You can deny it comes from the Holy Spirit, or from God, but it's impossible to deny it's existence. Every human being who ever lived has it to some degree or another.

Desensitized or enhanced, through a variety of ways, but it IS there. Even the cannibal knows better than to steal from the Chief!

Christians believe it comes from God, some groups think it comes from an idol, maybe the sun, or where ever. Some may even declare it doesn't exist at all, a position that will gain little traction among thinking men, religious or atheist.

[skyblue888]

It is written that "God has dealt to every man the measure of faith." Rom.12:3. Since Christ is the "Author and finisher of our faith" (Heb.12:2) it follows that God has dealth to every man a measure of the Holy Spirit. Therefore conscience is the voice of the Holy Spirit, the faith of Christ, especially when it is enlightened by the Holy Scriptures.

As this measure of faith is exercised, allowed to have free course in us, it "grows exceedingly" (2 Thess.1:3) and it "works by love." Gal.5:6.

sky

[phkrause]

Interesting thing I once heard about our conscience and the Holy Spirit. Someone asked how do you know the difference, is it the HS or you? So the pastor said if its your voice you hear than its definitely not the HS. I thought that was pretty interesting.

[ClubV12]

Recently this little gem has been a help to me.

"The voice of duty is the Voice of God." Testimonies to Ministers, 402.

What is your duty? To God, to family, to community, to yourself.

and this...

"Conscience is the Voice of God, heard amid the conflict of human passions; when it is resisted, the Spirit of God is grieved." 5 Testimonies, 120.

[Guest]

Paul said that God's grace brought salvation to all men (everyone).

[Gail]

Today I talked to a pastor who read the book. He said that Bell disbelieves in an everlasting burning hell. I said to the pastor, Well, in time perhaps he will come around to our way of thinking...

You just never know.

[fccool]

Christians believe it comes from God, some groups think it comes from an idol, maybe the sun, or where ever. Some may even declare it doesn't exist at all, a position that will gain little traction among thinking men, religious or atheist.

Actually it does not get any traction among thinking men. I've given plenty of examples before of children who were raised by animals in the wild, and who have no moral concept whatsoever.

Possession morality could be described as consequential morality. We know the consequences of both taking someone Else's property, likewise we know that we don't want other people take ours. Thus it's a developed rule in our head. Sure, it may come from God, but that's not what we are discussing here.

What we are discussing is Christian Spiritualism... the idea that spirits (be it demons or Holy Spirit) inject ideas into your brain on subconscious level for you to either accept or reject. I.E. you are not consciously aware of the process, because there's no "voice" speaking to you outside of some conviction that you get about certain decision.

It's a fairly vague way of transmitting information. At the very least, Biblical word is written for you to consciously process. What Christian Spiritualist suggest is in fact that they get "commands" from God that other people reject... even though they are not directly aware that

a) These things coming from God

These things are the right thing to do

[Dr. Rich]

Hey PHK, I guess you never read Matthew 24:39 where Jesus confirmed that Noah never preached. Jesus said that they DID NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT IT!

It does not take common sense to understand that God told Noah that ONLY he and his family would be saved and He NEVER told Noah to preach to anyone.

After all, what was Noah to do? He was given a set of plans to build it just the way God wanted it built, not smaller or larger to take on more people.

As for Richard telling be shut up, read his reply before mine.

As for "Love Wins", this is the gospel of Paul and not of Jesus Christ. Satan started it by telling Eve that God's love was so great that surely He wouldn't kill them if they ate from the truee. Now Satan is using others as puppets for him to make people feel all warm and fuzzy mistakenly believing they have been saved.

Yes, this whole idea is a 'bowl of crock' and when people tell me that God has spoken to them I find that rather sad! The Holy Spirit will NOT dwell in anyone who sins. And there is no one alive today who has truely bee born again by the Holy Spirit.

[Guest]

Hey PHK, I guess you never read Matthew 24:39 where Jesus confirmed that Noah never preached. Jesus said that they DID NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT IT!

First of all that's not exactly what Jesus said. You are embellishing and adding your own words as usual. He did not say they didn't know ANYTHING about it. Read the following texts, and then answer one question.

But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Mat 24:37-39

So you are saying that the world has never been told that Jesus is coming back, that they know absolutely NOTHING about it?

Because following your logic, that they knew absolutely nothing about the flood, and hadn't even been told, then that is how Jesus' return will be. Because it says it will be the same. But people have been told for 2000 years now that Jesus will return. Yet they are carrying on as if nothing will ever happen. Just like in Noah's day.

You can be sure that they were told. They just didn't believe it. So, what they didn't know was that the day had finally arrived.

[John317]

So, If God acts in a way that's not written into the Bible... and saves the entire human race, that would make him somehow less good? Is it you or your pride speaking there?

I believe God respects our choices. He takes them seriously. But if God saves everyone, it means people weren't able to choose, because many people have chosen to reject God.

Upon what basis would God save someone like Hitler? He killed himself in complete rebellion against God. Do you think God will change people against their wills?

[John317]

Hey PHK, I guess you never read Matthew 24:39 where Jesus confirmed that Noah never preached. Jesus said that they DID NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT IT!

Where does Jesus say such a thing?

Matthew 24:38-39

For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, [39] and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

Some people think that Matt. 24: 38, 39 says that the people of Noah's day had no warning about the coming Flood. However, all it shows is that they didn't believe what Noah told them, and therefore they didn't KNOW about it until it was too late. It doesn't say the people didn't hear about it beforehand. Similarly, millions are being warned today about the judgement, the Mark of the Beast, and the seven last plagues, yet because most of them don't beleive the message, the Bible says that they will be caught totally unprepared, just as if they had never been warned.