Why was Job chosen?

[Woody]

Why did God choose Job to be so tested by Satan.

And does the reason still apply to how people are tested/tempted today?

[Sonny]

Why did God choose Job to be so tested by Satan.

I wouldn't say God choose Job to be tested. I would say Job placed himself in his own predicament.....Job placed himself outside God's full protection because of his self-righteous attitude.

Throughout the Bible God abandons those who reject Him. Not because it's His will, but because His agape love can't remain where it is persistently unwelcomed. The self-righteous Jews are a good example, only in their case they fully, knowingly rejected Christ. That's why Christ said, "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing. Look, your house is left to you desolate.

[Woody]

Why did God ask Satan if he had considered Job?

[Sonny]

Why did God ask Satan if he had considered Job?

Upon reading the book of Job it should be apparent that Job, like the Jews, had a problem. That problem was pride in one's works, which the Bible calls self-righteousness.

God knew of Job's claims. No doubt Job had been like this many years and apparently God couldn't convince Job otherwise. So basically God partially retreats from Job's life. The result? Trouble!

God represents us before Satan, who is the accuser of the brethren. If God isn't presenting us in His own righteousness, He must by default present one in their own righteous, which is self-righteousness. So God is presenting Job as Job presents himself through the book of Job.

Notice though, who gets the blame for all that happens when God retreats: "The fire of God fell from the sky and burned up the sheep and the servants".....

Satan was well aware of Job. He didn't need an introduction. The issue came up because God was about to partially remove Himself from Job's life. Essentially this gave Satan an edge.....God and the devil aren't in cahoots...but if you take this conversation as a literal event you have to think that they are.

[John317]

I would say Job placed himself in his own predicament.....Job placed himself outside God's full protection because of his self-righteous attitude.

Throughout the Bible God abandons those who reject Him. Not because it's His will, but because His agape love can't remain where it is persistently unwelcomed.

Job was chosen because God knew He could trust Him to do and say what was right. Both the narrator and God testify that Job was blameless and upright. There's no reason to believe we can't accept their testimony at face value. Nothing in the book of Job supports the idea that those horrible things happened to him because he was outside of God's protection on account of some wrong he'd committed.

The descriptin of Job as "blameless" doesn't mean that Job was without sin. It is a word that simply refers to Job integrity.

Some have said that Job considers himself perfect and without sin, but this is false. Job is not talking about his moral perfection but rather his innocence-- that is, he is defending himself against the accusation that God is punishing him for some secret sins in his life.

The whole point of the book loses its meaning if Job is suffering because of some wrong he had committed. The theme is the suffering of the people of God. Nowhere in the story of Job does God tell anybody that if people are "good," he won't allow any evil to happen to them.

This is not to deny that Job speaks rashly and utters things without understanding in the midst of his cruel suffering.

[Sonny]

The whole point of the book loses its meaning if Job is suffering because of some wrong he had committed.

Is self-righteousness a state of mind or is it an act? It can't be an act so your point is moot.

You can keep the law outwardly, but yet be at odds with it. The Jews were outwardly law keepers...they were blameless, but inwardly all they did was "to be seen of men". They did the right thing outwardly for the wrong reason inwardly. This was also the problem of Job.

The flesh [human nature] can do good things outwardly, but what controls the outside actions are dominated by the love of self. Agape has no self in it. It loves without getting something back. Sin does good things outwardly so it can gain. Keep in mind 1 cor 13:3

If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love [agape], I gain nothing. 4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It is not rude, it is not self-seeking....

So if I gave up all my possessions for the poor (outwardly a good deed), but I did it outside God's agape love (of which He is the source) the act is meaningless in heaven's eyes. Why? Anything I do for others can't be motivated by self-seeking.

If I give all my goods up so I'll be thought of well among my friends or so I'll get my name in the paper or any self-centered motivation, I'm not keeping the law I'm keeping sin.

[Woody]

Why did God choose Job to be so tested by Satan.

And does the reason still apply to how people are tested/tempted today?

I wish someone could help me with my question. Seriously. The two questions are meant to go together. Can someone help me?

You all may have other questions about Job and that is fine. But perhaps you could address them on another thread.

[Gerr]

I wish someone could help me with my question. Seriously. The two questions are meant to go together. Can someone help me?

You all may have other questions about Job and that is fine. But perhaps you could address them on another thread.

Because he was apparently the only one Satan couldnt crack.

[Sonny]

Why did God choose Job to be so tested by Satan.

[Sonny]

Psalm 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: They go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies.

Keep in mind Eph 2:3 -- All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts.

So David is applying "the wicked" to all of humanity. Now, what does he mean "speaking lies?" Can infants speak? No. However, every infant's mind is dominated by one thing: Self or the love of self.

Because of the love of self we do seemingly good things, why? To get our way. It's a form of manipulation...it's a lie. How so? Because we aren't really doing good. We're presenting a lie.

Job, as all of us, were born with this condition. We act good, but it's a lie. Only God can correct us and bring about transformation.

Job claimed to be blameless. He spent a lot of time trying to convince God and others of his righteousness, but it was a lie. You can't produce agape unless you have the source of agape, God, living in you. And even then your surrender is imperfect.

To Job he was doing good, but it was a lie. He was producing his own righteousness, which is unrighteousness in God's eyes. After Job brings all this trouble down on himself and his family his eyes were finally opened to his problem. Finally he repents...he covers his mouth. Now we see a humble Job...one who could have learned the easy way, but choose the hard way.

[Sonny]

BTW, when someone denies their need of Christ, when he/she brings up his/her good deeds, he/she is presenting a lie!

Outside Christ everything is a lie. All TV commercials are based on deceit or lies. You've heard them all. They act like it's all about you, when in reality it's all about them. You've heard the one, "Like a good neighbor, _____ is there." All the time you are paying in and if something happens you pay more. What a great neighbor. Anyway, everything in this world is based on falsehood. That's why Satan is the father of lies.

[Gerr]

Psalm 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: They go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies.

And you, who once were alienated and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds, 22 he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him,

The Holy Bible : English standard version. 2001 (Col 1:21–22). Wheaton: Standard Bible Society.

Quote:

Keep in mind Eph 2:3 -- All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts.

You forgot what follows what you underlined - "also livED among them AT ONE TIME." That means they have abandoned that kind of life.

You are correct. Only God can transform us. And according to God, Job was a transformed man.

Quote:

Job claimed to be blameless. He spent a lot of time trying to convince God and others of his righteousness, but it was a lie. You can't produce agape unless you have the source of agape, God, living in you. And even then your surrender is imperfect.

To Job he was doing good, but it was a lie. He was producing his own righteousness, which is unrighteousness in God's eyes. After Job brings all this trouble down on himself and his family his eyes were finally opened to his problem. Finally he repents...he covers his mouth. Now we see a humble Job...one who could have learned the easy way, but choose the hard way.

If that is true, then God was bearing false witness. IMPOSSIBLE!!!

[phkrause]

Why did God choose Job to be so tested by Satan.

And does the reason still apply to how people are tested/tempted today?

As John and Gerry have already alluded to, if we read the beginning verses of Job it states that Job was blameless and upright, that he feared (respected) the Lord. Also he states that there is no other like him. And I would say yes to your second part. And as has been mentioned many times, God will not temp/test us beyond what we can handle. So that tells me that he had no problem tempting or testing Job to the max.

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Woody

Why did God choose Job to be so tested by Satan.

And does the reason still apply to how people are tested/tempted today?

As John and Gerry have already alluded to, if we read the beginning verses of Job it states that Job was blameless and upright, that he feared (respected) the Lord. Also he states that there is no other like him. And I would say yes to your second part. And as has been mentioned many times, God will not temp/test us beyond what we can handle. So that tells me that he had no problem tempting or testing Job to the max.

Good One.

[Sonny]

God will not temp/test us beyond what we can handle.

God does not tempt....

[Sonny]

according to God, Job was a transformed man.

Why did a transformed man have to repent and refer to himself as vile?

Job 40:4 Behold, I am vile ; what shall I answer thee? I will lay mine hand upon my mouth.

Job 42:6 I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.

[Sonny]

If that is true, then God was bearing false witness. IMPOSSIBLE!!!

God wasn't bearing false witness - He was presenting Job as he presented himself to God.

Here's Job 9:20 "I am blameless"

God to Satan: "Have you considered My servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and shuns evil?"

Job was righteous, but in his own eyes:

Job 3:21 So these three men ceased to answer Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes.

Now of course Job's friends were wrong. God wasn't punishing Job. God doesn't work that way. Job had placed himself outside God's protection because of his self-righteous attitude. This had apparently been going on for sometime.

But then a 4th man, Elihu steps in:

32:1 Then Eli'hu the son of Bar'achel the Buzite, of the family of Ram, became angry. He was angry at Job because he justified himself rather than God; 3 he was angry also at Job's three friends because they had found no answer, although they had declared Job to be in the wrong.

You see Job was justifying himself before God instead of God justifying Job in Himself. So when God said Job was blameless, He was presenting Job's view of himself. Very clear....

[phkrause]

Originally Posted By: pkrause

God will not temp/test us beyond what we can handle.

God does not tempt....

OK I should have said "allow"

[Gerr]

God does not tempt....

KJV 1900 | Ge 22:1 And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am.

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

If that is true, then God was bearing false witness. IMPOSSIBLE!!!

God wasn't bearing false witness - He was presenting Job as he presented himself to God.

Here's Job 9:20 "I am blameless"

He was blameless as to his friends' charge that he was suffering because of his wickedness. If he was self-righteous as you charge, then his friends would have been correct. God's testimony is that they were wrong.

[Gerr]

Job 40:4 Behold, I am vile ; what shall I answer thee? I will lay mine hand upon my mouth.

Job 42:6 I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.

Here's the reason as Job himself said, which you would have known if you had not skipped them.

NIV84 | Job 42:3 You asked, ‘Who is this that obscures my counsel without knowledge?’ Surely I spoke of things I did not understand, things too wonderful for me to know.

NIV84 | Job 42:5 My ears had heard of you but now my eyes have seen you. 6 Therefore I despise myself and repent in dust and ashes.”

[Sonny]

He was blameless as to his friends' charge that he was suffering because of his wickedness.

Let’s go on to chapter 10, and you will notice that Job is now defending his righteousness even before God. Job 10:2:

“I will say to God: Do not condemn me, but tell me what charges you have against me.”

Job is so confident that he is sinless, look at verses 23-24:

How many wrongs and sins have I committed? Show me my offense and my sin. Why do you hide your face and consider me your enemy?

[Sonny]

Here's the reason as Job himself said, which you would have known if you had not skipped them.

Job 42:3 You asked, ‘Who is this that obscures my counsel without knowledge?’ Surely I spoke of things I did not understand, things too wonderful for me to know.

Why did Job cover his mouth (see Job 40:4)? As you say, "Surely I spoke of things I did not understand, things too wonderful for me to know."

What was Job saying to God where he had to stop and cover his mouth?

Job 33:1 So these three men stopped answering Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes. 2 But Elihu son of Barakel the Buzite, of the family of Ram, became very angry with Job [why?] for justifying himself rather than God. 3 He was also angry with the three friends, because they had found no way to refute Job, and yet had condemned him.

Gerry, in the Judgment are you going to stand before God's law and justify yourself by your good deeds? Or are you going to let God justify you both by the imparted & imputed righteousness of Christ? Well, hopefully the latter. If not you would not find yourself justified before God. Here's an example:

Luke 18:10 "Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.' 13 But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me, a sinner!' 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted."

So Job's problem was that he justified himself instead of God justifying Him. He justified his goodness before God. That's self-righteousness.

[Sonny]

He was also angry with the three friends, because they had found no way to refute Job, and yet had condemned him.

You see Job's 3 friends condemned Job without proof. Their argument was God must be punishing you for some secret sin that you are committing, but does God punish us like that? What God does is He gives us up...He retreats when persistent unbelief is cherished. The results?

I will forsake them and hide my face from them, and they will be devoured. And many evils and troubles will come upon them, so that they will say in that day, 'Have not these evils come upon us because our God is not among us?'

So Job's 3 friends were wrong about God. But this fourth man, Elihu, puts his finger on the problem: Self-justification, which is the same as self-righteousness.

In the end Elihu didn't get into trouble with God. Let's read this:

Job 42:7 After the LORD had spoken these words to Job, the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite: "My anger burns against you and against your two friends [that's 3], for you have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job has [i.e., after his repentance]. 8 Now therefore take seven bulls and seven rams and go to my servant Job and offer up a burnt offering for yourselves. And my servant Job shall pray for you, for I will accept his prayer not to deal with you according to your folly. For you have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job has." 9 So Eliphaz the Temanite and Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite [that's 3, not 4] went and did what the LORD had told them, and the LORD accepted Job's prayer.

[John317]

Robert, the reason Elihu didn't get in trouble with God the way the other three men did is that Elihu was young (32:6) and had at least tried to show that the other three men were wrong. This was at least an improvement over what had been happening since the friends had arrived to "comfort" poor Job.

You didn't mention something that I believe is very significant, and that is that God doesn't commend Elihu's suggested reasons for Job's suffering or his anger against Job. God basically ignores Elihu. There is no reason to believe that God agrees with him. It seems to me that God would have said He agreed with Elihu if He did agree.

It's also important to notice that God and Elihu don't agree about Job's suffering. God never suggests that Job has been suffering because of self-righteousness. All Job has been saying is that his friends are wrong to make it appear that he was suffering for the sins he committeed. Job is not claiming he's never sinned, but rather, Job's message is that He's innocent of having sommitted secret sins that resulted in God's punishing him.