Why was Job chosen?

[Sonny]

God's testimony: And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

1] Was God repeating Job's view of himself because of his self-justification or did God view Job as blameless/righteous?

2] If Job was not self-righteous why did he view himself as "vile" and then "repent"?

[Gerr]

He causes his sun [blessings] to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain [again, blessings] on the righteous and the unrighteous.

Is that a reward?

[Gerr]

Job viewed himself as righteous. God viewed him as vile. He humbled Job by partially removing Himself from Job's life. When Job was humbled, he repented. Then Job was exalted.

Where does God say Job was vile?

[Sonny]

Originally Posted By: Sonny

Job viewed himself as righteous. God viewed him as vile. He humbled Job by partially removing Himself from Job's life. When Job was humbled, he repented. Then Job was exalted.

Where does God say Job was vile?

Who convinced Paul that all his righteousness was dung? Answer: The same Spirit that convinced Job that all his righteousness was vile. Why? The law also examines why we do the things we do...especially our so-called good deeds.

The law of Jehovah is exceedingly broad. Jesus . . . plainly declared to His disciples that this holy law of God may be violated in even the thoughts and feelings and desires, as well as in the word and deed. The heart that loves God supremely will not in any way be inclined to narrow down His precepts to the very smallest possible claims...Deep conviction of sin and self-loathing is the result, and the soul in its desperate sense of peril lays hold on the blood of the Lamb of God as his only remedy. . . . [OHC 140]

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: John317

God's testimony: And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

1] Was God repeating Job's view of himself because of his self-justification or did God view Job as blameless/righteous?

Where does the Bible say God was just repeating what Job thought of himself?

Quote:

2] If Job was not self-righteous why did he view himself as "vile" and then "repent"?

That has already been answered!!! He was speaking out of ignorance!!! He thought God was doing it to him for no reason!!!

In the epilogue, God had this to say: ESV | Job 42:7 After the LORD had spoken these words to Job, the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite: “My anger burns against you and against your two friends, for you have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job has.

[Sonny]

God loves His enemies....

[Gerr]

FOUL! You are going outside the book of Job.

[Gerr]

God loves His enemies....

That's not a reward.

[Sonny]

FOUL! You are going outside the book of Job.

Okay, fair enough. There are similarities, however.

[Sonny]

Where does the Bible say God was just repeating what Job thought of himself?

Where does the Bible explicitly state that the Papacy is the anti-Christ system? It doesn't...some arrive at that conclusion through the study of the word.

Likewise the book of Job doesn't have a text that states that God was just repeating what Job said. You have to read the whole context - not just those parts that fit your traditional view.

Having said that I understand your resistance....I can see that to you it seems like a contradiction. Personally I love contradictions because then I have to tell God I don't have a clue. That's when God opens up things. Just my opinion.

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

Where does the Bible say God was just repeating what Job thought of himself?

Where does the Bible explicitly state that the Papacy is the anti-Christ system? It doesn't...some arrive at that conclusion through the study of the word.

Likewise the book of Job doesn't have a text that states that God was just repeating what Job said. You have to read the whole context - not just those parts that fit your traditional view.

Having said that I understand your resistance....I can see that to you it seems like a contradiction. Personally I love contradictions because then I have to tell God I don't have a clue. That's when God opens up things. Just my opinion.

FOUL AGAIN! Strike 2!! We are talking about the book of Job, not the anti-christ or the papacy. WHERE DOES IT SAY THAT GOD WAS JUST REPEATING WHAT JOB THOUGHT OF HIMSELF? NOWHERE!!! You admit that yourself. The context of the book of Job is an attempt to answer the question of why the righteous or good people suffer. If people suffer for their sins, that's no mystery at all. But when those who obey the laws of health get cancer, that's a big question. Or if "good" & "righteous" people suffer calamitiies in the face of God's promises, that's a big problem to a lot of people.

[phkrause]

FOUL AGAIN! Strike 2!! We are talking about the book of Job, not the anti-christ or the papacy. WHERE DOES IT SAY THAT GOD WAS JUST REPEATING WHAT JOB THOUGHT OF HIMSELF? NOWHERE!!! You admit that yourself. The context of the book of Job is an attempt to answer the question of why the righteous or good people suffer. If people suffer for their sins, that's no mystery at all. But when those who obey the laws of health get cancer, that's a big question. Or if "good" & "righteous" people suffer calamitiies in the face of God's promises, that's a big problem to a lot of people.

Exactly Gerry. The book of Job is there to show that things happen to good and bad alike. And that God never allows Satan to do more than we can handle. That's why God allowed Satan to temp Job with great calamites to himself and his family, because God knew how much Job could handle. Sure Job is a sinner no more or less than the rest of us, that's a given. I agree with you Gerry 100%.

[Woody]

Quote:

Exactly Gerry. The book of Job is there to show that things happen to good and bad alike. And that God never allows Satan to do more than we can handle. That's why God allowed Satan to temp Job with great calamites to himself and his family, because God knew how much Job could handle. Sure Job is a sinner no more or less than the rest of us, that's a given.

Thanks pk. I appreciate this thought. And needed it.

[phkrause]

Thanks pk. I appreciate this thought. And needed it.

You welcome Woody :)

[Sonny]

FOUL AGAIN! Strike 2!! We are talking about the book of Job, not the anti-christ or the papacy.

No, not foul at all. My point stands. The link to the Papacy is not clearly seen until you study it out. The same with Job.

[Sonny]

Originally Posted By: Woody

Thanks pk. I appreciate this thought. And needed it.

You welcome Woody

That's all fine and dandy if you want to spiritualize the book of Job, but it's not about the issue you bring up. It's how God deals with the self-righteous.

[John317]

Sure Job is a sinner no more or less than the rest of us, that's a given. I agree with you Gerry 100%.

I agree with Gerry 100% also.

Yes, Job was a sinner, as all human beings except Christ have been sinners. Obviously, however, Job was not practicing sin. Job could not practice sin and at the same time be "perfect [blameless] and upright" and one who "reverenced God and shunned evil."

[Sonny]

The context of the book of Job is an attempt to answer the question of why the righteous or good people suffer.

Wow, how terrible. So God let's Satan at the "righteous" for no other reason then to prove Himself right about if that person will maintain his belief in Him? That doesn't sound like the God I know.

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

FOUL AGAIN! Strike 2!! We are talking about the book of Job, not the anti-christ or the papacy.

No, not foul at all. My point stands. The link to the Papacy is not clearly seen until you study it out. The same with Job.

Sorry, no legs to stand on. When God says the same thing twice, what does that tell you?

[Sonny]

Yes, Job was a sinner, as all human beings except Christ have been sinners. Obviously, however, Job was not practicing sin. Job could not practice sin and at the same time be "perfect [blameless] and upright" and one who "reverenced God and shunned evil."

You guys are stuck in the mud....You can't see beyond your tradition, which isn't a good thing I might add.

Anyone can see Job had a problem, yet you guys keep pushing the ignore button. You don't want to see Job's problem because it just might reflect on your own life. Maybe that's the real problem? Only God knows.

[John317]

No, not foul at all. My point stands. The link to the Papacy is not clearly seen until you study it out. The same with Job.

There's an even closer link between Job's experience and the experience of God's people who go through the time of Jacob's Trouble just before the return of Christ. Then there's also the link between Job's expereicne and the experience of all of God's faithful people who have had to suffer in this world.

I think the great point of the book of Job is that God allows His people to suffer without there necessarily being any connection at all to sins they are committing or have committed. So we can't assume that when people suffer, it is because of their sins. It may be, too--- as in the case of Job--- that God allows suffering in order to show the universe that God's people are worthy of His trust and worthy of being made immortal.

[Sonny]

When God says the same thing twice, what does that tell you?

That He presented Job's righteousness twice!

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: John317

Yes, Job was a sinner, as all human beings except Christ have been sinners. Obviously, however, Job was not practicing sin. Job could not practice sin and at the same time be "perfect [blameless] and upright" and one who "reverenced God and shunned evil."

You guys are stuck in the mud....You can't see beyond your tradition, which isn't a good thing I might add.

Anyone can see Job had a problem, yet you guys keep pushing the ignore button. You don't want to see Job's problem because it just might reflect on your own life. Maybe that's the real problem? Only God knows.

Interesting perspective Sonny. I had not really thought it in those terms. But you may be right.

[Sonny]

So we can't assume that when people suffer, it is because of their sins.

I agree with that. God didn't cause Job's suffering, Job did. Yes, God allowed it because essentially Job didn't need the righteousness of God - that's because he was in need of nothing. He was righteous in his own eyes even to the point of justifying his so-called righteousness before God.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

When God says the same thing twice, what does that tell you?

That He presented Job's righteousness twice!

But the problem with your reasoning here is that the narrator says-- and in the very first verse-- that Job is indeed a "blameless and upright" man who reverences God and "shuns [turns away from] evil." That can only be false if you are saying the narrator is unreliable. Then you dig an even greater hole for yourself, because it would mean we can't trust the narrator.