Did Willie White Influence his mother?

[miz3]

Quote:

Originally Posted By: Ellen White1898

“Christ might commission the angels of

heaven to pour out the vials of His wrath on

our world, to destroy those who are filled with

hatred of God. He might wipe this dark spot

from His universe. But He does not do this.

He is today standing at the altar of

incense, presenting before God the prayers

of those who desire His help. {DA 568.4}

This was written I believe around 1898 some 54 years after 1844 when according to Ellen White and the SDA Church Jesus Christ had already entered the "MOST HOLY PLACE".

As the Desire Ages quote above states Jesus Christ was still in the "Holy Place" ministering.

HOW CAN THIS BE?

Richard Holbrook,

Can you explain the clear discrepancy cited in the quote box?

First, I would say that I have not rejected Ellen White!

Second, I have rejected the simpering slobbering unBiblical view of a Prophet that SDA take in regard to Ellen White.

Third, I reject the common SDA view of how Inspiration from God works. It is not "thought" Inspiration. The Bible teaches that God "dictated" His Inspiration to His prophets.

Fourth, I reject the "brethren"'s view of the work of Ellen White which they have clearly manipulated and tampered with to further what they viewed as a better objective than what God did in fact give Ellen White.

Fifth, once again you are wrong in your assessments and your analysis.

[Guest]

First, I would say that I have not rejected Ellen White!

Nonsense! You rejected what she had to say about the investigative judgment, and said there isn't one. Now that you have found this, you'll say: "Oh, that was changed, and put there by someone else. When the fact is, you had already rejected it.

I am not wrong. People who reject the SoP, are not all that hard to spot.

[Gordon1]

I can see how someone who has already rejected EGW would think they have really found something here.

Hi Richard,

In fact these comparisons reveal why there is so much confusion and apparent contradiction in her work. So instead of throwing her out as a false prophet, true seekers will see that her work has been twisted to suit the political will of the day. i.e. - if it critiques the Church position, make an adjustment.

Thus it can be shown that EGW is true, but her handlers were not.

A reasonable dividing line hovers around the time of James White's death (1881), who had been her editor and publisher. The five man 'oversight' committee dates from 1883. So possibly Sketches from the Life of Paul (1883) and the SOP Vol. IV (1884 GC) escaped their review.

The booklet confirms EGW as inspired, while exposing the book-changers. Willie White was one of the five.

[Gordon1]

Just as the Bible has been added to and changed with various versions, so too was the work of EGW manipulated.

[Guest]

Third, I reject the common SDA view of how Inspiration from God works. It is not "thought" Inspiration. The Bible teaches that God "dictated" His Inspiration to His prophets.

The Lord has set before me matters which are of urgent importance for the present time, and which reach into the future. The words have been spoken in a charge to me, "Write in a book the things which thou hast seen and heard, and let it go to all the people; for the time is at hand when past history will be repeated." I have been aroused at one, two, or three o'clock in the morning with some point forcibly impressed upon my mind, as if spoken by the voice of God. . . . {CM 128.1}

I was shown . . . that I should devote myself to writing out the important matters for volume 4 [The Great Controversy]; that the warning must go where the living messenger could not go, and that it would call the attention of many to the important events to occur in the closing scenes of this world's history.--Letter 1, 1890. {CM 128.2}

The book The Great Controversy, I appreciate above silver or gold, and I greatly desire that it shall come before the people. While writing the manuscript of The Great Controversy, I was often conscious of the presence of the angels of God. And many times the scenes about which I was writing were presented to me anew in visions of the night, so that they were fresh and vivid in my mind.--Letter 56, 1911. {CM 128.3}

Thoughts and visions. Not words. She was constantly complaining that it was hard to find the words to describe what she had been shown.

[Guest]

The booklet confirms EGW as inspired, while exposing the book-changers. Willie White was one of the five.

Thanks Gordon, I know you have not rejected the Spirit of Prophecy, because of our earlier conversations. And because of that, I am going to give this a thorough look.

[miz3]

Richard Holbrook,

You need to read more carefully what I actually have written. You are so filled with paranoia and anger at even the slightest question that you go Berserk!

This is typical of SDA "brethren" types or "brethren" type supporters. You people cannot stand the scrutiny.

You have two switches: On! for those who never question and who blindly accept. Then there is the Off! for anything else no matter what!

You have totally, I hope not on purpose, misrepresented, distorted, and lied about my position.

On the Investigative Judgment I never said that she was not correct in asserting it as a Doctrine. In fact there is not an iota of criticism leveled at Ellen White.

I do indeed criticize the "brethren" and their supporters because they are not truthful about where the Doctrine of Investigative Judgment comes from.

I have repeatedly asked why the "brethren" and their supporters don't admit that Ellen White is the "Source" of the Doctrine of Investigative Judgment (which she is) and let it go at that instead of stretching beyond reason even to the simplest of minds that such a Doctrine is supported by the Bible.

Your accusation of me and my position is patently "UNTRUE" AND IT IS A "LIE" TO CHARACTERIZE ME AND MY VIEWS IN SUCH A FASHION.

YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF FOR YOUR BEHAVIOR AND YOUR WORDS!

I think you are afraid to confront HONESTLY people like me who have HONEST QUESTIONS BECAUSE WE LOVE THIS CHURCH TOO AND WE DO NOT WANT TO SEE IT GO DOWN THE DRAIN BECAUSE SOME POWER HUNGRY EVIL PEOPLE WHO CARE ONLY ABOUT THEMSELVES AND PRESERVING THEIR HUMAN IDEA OF WHAT GOD'S PEOPLE SHOULD BE LIKE!

WE WANT THE SDA CHURCH TO HONESTLY BE GOD'S PEOPLE NOT A PEOPLE PROPPED UP BY HUMAN INTERPRETATIONS AS THE JEWS WERE IN JESUS CHRIST'S DAY!

I am tired of people who put the Church before they put God!

[miz3]

2nd Volume of Sermons and Talks, pp. 187,

188: “The Lord gave many other statutes or

judgments, which were to be strictly obeyed.

These are recorded in the twenty-first, twenty-

second, and twenty-third chapters of

Exodus… After God had given Moses various

laws and ordinances, He directed him to go

down to the people and acquaint them with

these laws. Moses was instructed to read them

to the people. While in the mount he had

WRITTEN them just as they had been SPOKEN

by the Son of God. "And Moses came and told

the people all the words of the Lord, and all

the judgments: and all the people answered

with one voice, and said, All the words which

the Lord hath said will we do" (Ex. 24:3)….

Moses did not leave them to misconstrue the

words of the Lord or to misapply His

requirements. He wrote all the words of the

Lord in a book, that they might be referred to

afterward. In the mount he had written

them as Christ Himself DICTATED them.”

[Guest]

Sometimes God does give his prophets "words", but not always. And certainly not in Ellen White's case.

What is a "Brethren type"???

I don't speak or know your code language.

[miz3]

Richard Holbrook,

You still have not answered my post #437296?

Are you unable to answer my questions HONESTLY or even at all. I have been under the impression that you are a big expert on Truth. Am I wrong?

Come on Richard, answer the questions.

[John317]

I am tired of people who put the Church before they put God!

Who do you believe is doing this? Are you sure they're doing it? Do you read people's hearts and minds? It seems to me that what you are doing is judging people.

That would be like my telling you that I'm tired of people who don't love the church. Or who don't really love Christ.

[John317]

So instead of throwing her out as a false prophet, true seekers will see that her work has been twisted to suit the political will of the day. i.e. - if it critiques the Church position, make an adjustment.

Please give examples and show references.

[Guest]

To be honest, usually when people blow up and get all animated, with long posts, and blown up words, their posts are skipped over and are not even read.

And you said I went beserk.....That's funny.

[miz3]

John317,

It is clear from the history of SDA and from past and present persons I know that their "actions" and their "words" have revealed this character flaw.

I did not "judge" anyone as to whether they were or are "saved" or "lost". The Bible states that such judging is NOT permissible!

However it is not a "sin" or "wrong" to judge persons based on their words and actions. Its called "by their fruits you shall know them"!

There is a "big" difference between the two types of judgment!

You, and anyone else on the forum, is also free to answer the TWO questions I have posed on the Ellen White quotes. Please help to clear up the seeming discrepancies?

[John317]

... I reject the common SDA view of how Inspiration from God works. It is not "thought" Inspiration. The Bible teaches that God "dictated" His Inspiration to His prophets.

This is false. God did not dictate the Scriptures to His prophets.

If he did, please explain the various styles of writing in the Bible.

Jeremiah told Baruch what to write, and Baruch did much of the actual writing of the book of Jeremiah. See Jeremiah 36: 16, 27, 32. Can you explain this in light of your contention that the Bible was dicated by God?

You claim that you have not rejected Ellen White as a prophet, but your words certainly indicate that you have. Perhaps you are not expressing your words in a way that convey what you mean.

That is the same tactic that Dr. Kellogg used. He would claim to support Ellen White, but in almost the same breath he would cause people to doubt her authority and trustworthiness.

Lucifer worked the same way in heaven against God. He would claim to support Christ, but actually he hated Christ and was out to destroy him.

[miz3]

John317,

Come on John317, please answer the questions:

1. Christ in the Holy Place 54 years after He was said to enter in 1844. Can you explain the clear word written by Ellen White.

2. Ellen White stated on three different occasions that God's Inspiration is indeed dictated!

No more filibustering and accusing me when I am using her own "Inspired Words"!

Are we or are we not going to be HONEST?

[John317]

...I did not "judge" anyone as to whether they were or are "saved" or "lost". The Bible states that such judging is NOT permissible!

However it is not a "sin" or "wrong" to judge persons based on their words and actions. Its called "by their fruits you shall know them"!

Yes, you can tell when words or actions are wrong.

But what I am talking about is judging people's motives. We can judge their words-- which is telling what words signify-- but we can't tell what is in people's hearts.

For instance, it would not be right for me or anyone else on this Forum to tell you that you don't really love Christ or that you love the church more than you love God.

[John317]

Are we or are we not going to be HONEST?

You need to stop this kind of posting, miz3. I know you don't believe people are free moral agents, but on this Forum, members are expected to be able to make moral judgments and decisions and control what they say.

[Guest]

I do indeed criticize the "brethren" and their supporters

Could you please translate this for me? Because I have no idea who you are talking about. I can tell you don't like "The Brethren" whoever that is. But I haven't a clue as to who you think "THEY" are.

[skyblue888]

...and the books were opened." Daniel 7

Like when the Judge opens your case file in preparation for the coming judgement.

True.

sky

[skyblue888]

Dan 7:21-23

While I was looking, this horn attacked God's chosen ones and was winning the battle. Then God Most High, the Eternal God, came and judged in favor of his chosen ones, because the time had arrived for them to be given the kingdom. Then I was told by the one standing there: "The fourth beast will be a fourth kingdom to appear on earth.

Notice that when this happens they are still here on the earth, and the end has not come yet.

Dan 7:10,11 and flames were dashing out from all around him. Countless thousands were standing there to serve him. The time of judgment began, and the books were opened. I watched closely to see what would happen to this smaller horn because of the arrogant things it was saying.

Again, this plainly shows that the judgment begins while events are still taking place here on earth, and that the end has not come yet. Daniel is still closely watching events unfold here after the judgment has begun.

Rev 14:7,8 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment has come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. And there followed another angel, saying...

Notice that the second angel comes after the judgment begins: "And there followed another angel, saying"...

The 3 angels are not still giving their message after the second coming.

So again, this shows that the judgment begins while events are still unfolding here on earth. There is more proof than this even, but time will not allow me to show it all right now. But this should be sufficient.

Right on Richard.

sky

[skyblue888]

Matt. 22: 1-14 contains a parable that clearly illustrates an Investigative Judgment:

Matthew 22:1-14

And again Jesus spoke to them in parables, saying, [2] "The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who gave a wedding feast for his son, [3] and sent his servants to call those who were invited to the wedding feast, but they would not come. [4] Again he sent other servants, saying, 'Tell those who are invited, See, I have prepared my dinner, my oxen and my fat calves have been slaughtered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding feast.' [5] But they paid no attention and went off, one to his farm, another to his business, [6] while the rest seized his servants, treated them shamefully, and killed them. [7] The king was angry, and he sent his troops and destroyed those murderers and burned their city. [8] Then he said to his servants, 'The wedding feast is ready, but those invited were not worthy. [9] Go therefore to the main roads and invite to the wedding feast as many as you find.' [10] And those servants went out into the roads and gathered all whom they found, both bad and good. So the wedding hall was filled with guests.

[11] "But when the king came in to look at the guests, he saw there a man who had no wedding garment. [12] And he said to him, 'Friend, how did you get in here without a wedding garment?' And he was speechless. [13] Then the king said to the attendants, 'Bind him hand and foot and cast him into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.' [14] For many are called, but few are chosen."

NOTE: the King, Jesus, comes to investigate the guests prior to the wedding feast.

Glad you can see this too.

sky :)

[skyblue888]

No clear light to come to Australia - 2SM 239:2

"At times before leaving America I thought that the Lord did not require me to go to a country so far away, at my age and when I was prostrated by overwork. But I followed the voice of the {General} Conference, as I have ever tried to do at times when I had no clear light myself. I came to Australia, and found the believers here in a condition where they must have help."

Christ was officially rejected in 1888. The Whites were despised long ere this, causing the premature death of James. EGW was shunned. She could have refused to go, but submitted to the GC direction. In truth they wanted rid of her - too straight. It's doubtful this was God's Plan A for EGW, but He used her and she was blessed, as was Australia.

Imagine what could have been done for the world if most Adventists of the era were obedient to the message?

[/quote

I agree.

sky

[skyblue888]

Just as the Bible has been added to and changed with various versions, so too was the work of EGW manipulated.

I believe that too.

Mrs. White predicted this would happen. She warned that if the leading men were not kept by the power of God "Fraud and guile would bear the semblance of zeal for truth and for the advancement of the kingdom of God." T.M.366.

sky

[miz3]

Richard Holbrook,

I would think you would know who the "brethren" are?

Do the "SDA Church Leaders" ring a bell?