Meat Eating

[Gail]

ClubV12.

You are clearly a dishonest person in regard to this subject because you refuse to acknowledge the Truth when clearly pointed out to you.

I am not threatening the Prophet. You think I am so you are ready to defend her even if it means being dishonest.

That is sooooo sad!

Please keep discussions to the topic at hand. Do not denegrate. I've already seen too many personal attacks lately and should have removed them (and have received complaints).

[miz3]

ClubV12,

Reread the quotes above and notice the sources cited.

Also, I told you where to find the dates for those testimonies.

Look!

The evidence is overwhelming!

[ClubV12]

"Grains and fruits, prepared without grease..."

While I still eat meat, I've cut way down. But the above counsel is something I would not hesitate to give to someone looking for the best diet advice. Something I'm "moving toward" myself.

The dates, while interesting, don't change the message miz3. It applies, or it doesn't. Your call...

[miz3]

ClubV12,

Remember Ellen White as Woody states said ten times more dangerous, and yet with such a huge probability she continued to eat.

Remember Ellen White stated as quoted above that those "preparing for translation", that means you ClubV12, will not eat meat period. She said these things between February 1868 and May 1871 all the while claiming that she also was "preparing for translation" while still eating her meat and flesh foods.

There is clearly something wrong with this picture and you refuse to be look at the picture honestly.

[ClubV12]

You know the Testimonies are largely composed of letters and counsel to specific individuals.

This has been posted in this thread, where she is counseling this fellow about meat:

"Dear Brother and Sister H: I recollected your countenances as being among several that I had seen who need a work accomplished for them before they can be sanctified through the truth.....

The brutish part of your nature governs the spiritual. Those who profess to be fitting for translation should not become butchers."

Turns out this fellow "H", actually WAS a "butcher"! I would imagine he and his family ate a lot of meat! Just a guess...

Those looking for translation should not be working in or owning a butcher shop, apparently. Or running a pig farm, or working on the Sabbath, or any number of other things.

[ClubV12]

But there's more about this mysterious family of "H", who were butchers.

They also ate pork! And we have this about Sister "H".

Concerning her poor health.

"Sister H needs to confine herself strictly to a diet of grains, fruits, and vegetables, cooked without flesh or grease of any kind."

[Tom Wetmore]

Doesn't it seem rather unfair of God to hold the final generation (those that get translated without experiencing death) to a much higher standard of conduct to be saved than those of any previous generation?

[Dr. Rich]

But there's more about this mysterious family of "H", who were butchers.

They also ate pork! And we have this about Sister "H".

Concerning her poor health.

"Sister H needs to confine herself strictly to a diet of grains, fruits, and vegetables, cooked without flesh or grease of any kind."

Hmmm? Concerning her poor health, could it have been something other then what she was eating--like what is found in Rev. 2:21-23?

[ClubV12]

I don't put to much emphasis on the specifics of the word "translation". I see the quote something like, "those looking for translation" much the same thing as saying "those who want to draw closer to Jesus". In other words, WHO isn't looking for translation? Then, now, in the future? But we are all at different levels in drawing closer to Jesus.

Some, like Mr. and Mrs. "H" need to take immediate physical action to continue toward that goal of drawing closer to Jesus. For them the counsel is: STOP, eating all that meat, and pork and for healths sake, START eating fruits and grains prepared without grease. Why? Because not only their physical health was being imperiled it was impacting their christian health as well. Bear in mind, this is no ordinary family who ate meat on occasion, they ate all kinds of rich foods and owned a butcher shop! Does the counsel apply to them? DUH!!!! Does it apply to you? Your call...

For others, the meat question may not be so paramount as other issues in their life that need IMMEDIATE and physical action. Something they need to do right now, if they are among those looking for translation. And who isn't among that group when it comes to Seventh Day Adventists?

[miz3]

ClubV12,

Evasive!

Weak!

Ignoring the true facts!

[ClubV12]

I stated the facts clearly and gave much more background on the quote than YOU provided! I put that quote in the CONTEXT in which it was originally written.

To a family who ran a BUTCHER shop, ate pork and were in poor health.

IF that counsel applies to you, you should follow it. I think to some degree it applies to ME and am "moving in that direction", as was Mrs. White at the time.

The advice is SOLID for anyone today, and our modern Surgeon General of the USA wouldn't have a problem with it. So, I'm left wondering, what IS your problem with it, miz3? And thats a serious question, what IS the problem here?

If your drinking a lot and getting drunk and sick from it, you need to STOP, right now. For others, they need to consider the counsel of limiting their wine intake (or even cutting it out all together).

[Parade Orange]

CLUBV and MIZ3

i thanku for the quotes an the time but why the heavy handed argument?

about this?

what we put in our own tummies is really between me and my body and GOD

its not up for microscopes of co dependent spiritually abusive strangers u meet online!

egads!

i was glad with the quotes cause RUDYWOOFS didnt grow up with ADVENTISTS who didnt site those SOP refrences at potlucks

i sure did grow up with that! im so lucky

i was surprised when i read RUDYWOOF's post

and i had to think about it for a few moments

i literaly grew up with people whispering to other people at potlucks ' look! that person is a sinner.. he/she is eating cheese!'

i thought it was normal! lol

i did the same as a younger man cause this is how i was taught to be

i dont think like that anymore

cause i realize that in order to be ready for translation depends more on my treatment/service of others then they doing what I think they should be doing

i realize maybe the off shoots and self supporting ministries that operate close to here influence on this whole region

which means a revelation to me as of late! .... ALL SDA's communities are not all like that?

wow! sign me up!

[miz3]

what we put in our own tummies is really between me and my body and GOD

AMEN!

I too grew up with a similar lifestyle, Parade Orange.

Maybe that is why I bristle so much when others point to these quotes and defend them in a way that shouts, "GIVE UP YOUR MEAT YOU HEATHEN, NONTRANSLATEABLE SINNER, YOUR GOING TO BURN!

[Woody]

Quote:

"GIVE UP YOUR MEAT YOU HEATHEN, NONTRANSLATEABLE SINNER, YOUR GOING TO BURN!

Well ... if it wasn't SO true ... it would be funny.

[ClubV12]

It's a good point Parade Orange. I've never (yet!) come face to face with this kind of quote. But now, understanding the context in which the message was given (the butcher and his wife), it reinforces the idea that Ellen Whites counsel, like the bible, is based on love.

What she was trying to do was reach out to this family, and offering them a better way of life based on practical solutions. For their health, cut down the meat, cut out the pork, try some fruits and grains and all that would increase their ability to grow in the Lord. As it would anybody looking to be "translated"! Excellent advice by even todays standards.

And yet, I DO see how this particular counsel could be used as a "hammer" all right! Just we like we can use bible verses as a hammer. In Ellen Whites case, we just have a LOT more opportunity to get that hammer out due to her vast writings, compared to the bible.

My "circular beliefs" and the "absolutes" in my life help me to pause while I contemplate the weight of the hammer about to be unloaded on my head. In this case, Ellen Whites counsel is fundamentally based on love, so, what am I missing in the context of this "heavy" quote? I ask myself...

[Gail]

Thanks for helping us stay in perspective.

Not being translated doesn't mean that you won't go to heaven...

[ClubV12]

You all know the infamous "bicycle" quote? For her time and all that, right, doesn't apply today, etc. etc.

I can tell you this, THAT quote had a profoud impact on me when it came to the decision about selling my custom high dollar car. THAT quote spoke to ME on the principle it contained. Suddenly, my car was a "bicycle"! The first time I heard it, someone mentioned it as an example of how careful we have to be not to take everything she said "literally". OK, so I didn't take it "literally", I took the concept instead! I don't think thats what the folks making that quote to me intended though. :)

[Parade Orange]

MIZ3

thanku for saying that

CLUBV and thanku for saying that

years ago when i worked at a deli- i took home meat almost every every night and chicken salad and egg salad and tuna salad on weekends (deli's dont skimp on mayo in those salads)

the meat was real roast beef,pastrami, corned beef,salami and fried fish (fish n chips every friday with sourdough breadbowel filled with clam chowder)

ooooh those were the days!

my triglyercides jumped tp TEN THOUSAND=its a wonder that i was alive

so i imagine if u are a butcher and family u do have alot of meat flowing your way

and vegies and fruits do get neglected cause of all the free or cheap leftovers

[BobRyan]

For those less worried about what God said on the subject of flesh foods -- and more worried about what Ellen White may have had for breakfast in 1884... I suggest a adjustment to your priorities.

in Christ,

Bob

[ClubV12]

I hope someone someday "slams" me with a "your not going to be translated if you eat meat" quote.

I'd be like, "Oh, your talking about the butcher and his wife?" Brother, you need to read the whole story about that butcher, not just a snippet.

I could easily interpret that quote to mean that "butchers,,, won't go to heaven." :)

[Gail]

I hope someone someday "slams" me with a "your not going to be translated if you eat meat" quote.

I'd be like, "Oh, your talking about the butcher and his wife?" Brother, you need to read the whole story about that butcher, not just a snippet.

I could easily interpret that quote to mean that "butchers,,, won't go to heaven."

And why would it matter to them so much?

[ClubV12]

A logical question Gail. I think it matters to some folks in the same way a bible verse can be used as a hammer to condem. "The wages of sin is death,,,,", and stop right there, just leave that hanging. THAT is a hammer, based on fear, not a righteous fear either, just ugly fear. From what some folks have said about the "butcher quote" it sounds like some people use it in the same "fearful" way. I have a hunch the people that might use such a quote are not trying to be rude, I suspect they are sincere. Sincerely what, is the question?

[Parade Orange]

if u go to my church and tell a few choice members that u eat meatwithout an apology u will get hit with the EGW scriptures

[Gail]

Hmm...

Parade Orange, at one of the churches I attend, they serve a real turkey dinner at Thanksgiving. It is a church made of a wonderful mix of "those" peeps.

YOU would be most welcome there! My daughter is befriending addicts in the course of her volunteering work and she brings them, too. I think a vegetarian dinner would be a shock to their system. :)

[Gail]

Condemn... just thinking about what ClubV12 said...

Does that help people turn around and be vegetarian? What would be a better way to promote that healthful option?