Are Roman Catholics Correct about SDA: Part 2

[Sonny]

Go it alone? Not exactly the way the early church was setup...

Yes, and there's no group of Christians like the early church....

[Gustave]

Do I understand correctly that Sonny and some other posters here are not SDA?

...I have read from the GC webiste that belief Ellen White was a true prophet.

...Is a required fundamental belief.

Therefore when I see statements which would lead a person to believe Ellen is not accepted as an Authority...

...I wonder if I'm not alone here.

[ClubV12]

I'm learning there are a LOT of Seventh-day Adventists who don't "fully" believe in Ellen White, though most folks I personally know DO believe in her fully. Then there is a group, plenty on THIS web site, who deny her gift entirely.

Those that don't believe in Ellen White, are members of the church, have had sufficient time to understand the issues and continue to denigrate her, I have a suggestion. Please ask to have your membership removed from the church. If you don't believe in this fundamental doctrine, why would you WANT to be a member?

[Overaged]

Sorry, Dude, I go though Christ alone. No Pope, no Pastor, no Ellen White....

I would hope that is the case; may God continue to bless your studies of His word.

[Overaged]

"The world" obviously includes "Scribes and Pharisees" therefore the "nature" of Christ's Church...

...Was ( and is ) Authoritative in matters of Faith and Morals.

...For the simple reason the Apostolic Church in Scripture.

...Is recorded as the one making determinations of Doctrine.

These people who went "out" FROM the Apostolic Authority ( The Church )...

...Were NOT authorized BY THE CHURCH to be teaching the Doctrines they were teaching.

...If 2 or three people gather together to study the word of God.

...And those 2 or three people agree on what is actually heresy.

...So much for "private interpretation" of what Scripture teaches.

There are many, many other Scriptures in both the Old and New Testaments...

...Which say the exact same thing - if everyone has authority NO ONE has it.

...God has always had His Established Religious Authority.

Well; I don't see these scriptures quite the way you do; I will say that we are in agreement, in principle, that "private interpretation" is spoken against by God. As Adventists, we believe that any "interpretation" must come from the scriptures themselves, not from the Church. The Church is supposed to be God's witness of the Word.

I don't see the phrase "Roman Catholic" in any of the texts you showed me in your last post to me. Can you please explain how you come up with that interpretation?

[Overaged]

Thats a good suggestion Club! Although I would have to come up with a question - of course! What do YOU mean by "fully believe" in Ellen G White?

[Gustave]

I don't see the phrase "Roman Catholic" in any of the texts you showed me in your last post to me. Can you please explain how you come up with that interpretation?

You realize that the Church of Antioch still stands to this day...

...As does the Church of Jerusalem, Rome and others.

...They are ALL Orthodox or Catholic.

...And they have never been anything other than Orthodox or Catholic.

So you could take your pick of E.O. or R.C.C.

...Nothing else existed unless you are going to count Arians.

[ClubV12]

Fully believe, she is a prophet, or she aint.

Some folks would like to believe but have sincere questions about the gift on some points. Thats OK, give them some time to work it out.

Some folks say they believe but are more often than not coming up with reasons and excuses to deny her testimony, to make her testimony of no effect. To search out and find data that is counter to her claims. Often based on the latest modern "studies" showing her "wrong".

IF you really believe she is a prophet then regardless of the "latest scientific and medical studies" that seem to run counter to her claims, then you can be assured the "learned men of science" haven't figured it out yet. Does a prophet lie "sometimes", or not? Do you believe what she says, or not? Is your faith based on "science" or the prophet?

At some point, you will either believe fully and trust fully, or you will leave the church. Simple as that.

[Sonny]

Truth is progressive. Ellen White didn't have all the light. In fact she said she only had a glimmer of the light that was yet to come.

[Sonny]

At some point, you will either believe fully and trust fully, or you will leave the church. Simple as that.

Ellen White is not a test of fellowship! What part of that do you not understand?

[olger]

People who reject light have one other option. Darkness.

[ClubV12]

I understand every part of it Sonny. I also understand if you preach a sermon from the pulpit denouncing Ellen White it will be your last sermon, and should be.

Truth, being progressive, will always be in harmony with the bible and with Ellen White.

[Overaged]

That's not quite true in all churches Club, but it is true that one has to watch what they say on the pulpit; and I can understand that. I had to do a sermon/eulogy at a funeral once; at an Anglical Church on a native reserve; and I also had to respect their beliefs while I was preaching. It wasn't hard to do at all.

[Overaged]

Originally Posted By: overaged

I don't see the phrase "Roman Catholic" in any of the texts you showed me in your last post to me. Can you please explain how you come up with that interpretation?

You realize that the Church of Antioch still stands to this day...

...As does the Church of Jerusalem, Rome and others.

...They are ALL Orthodox or Catholic.

...And they have never been anything other than Orthodox or Catholic.

So you could take your pick of E.O. or R.C.C.

...Nothing else existed unless you are going to count Arians.

The Bible does not mention "Roman Catholic;" it's just that simple.

[Sonny]

Truth, being progressive, will always be in harmony with the bible and with Ellen White.

No - you can't do that. The Bible contains all truth, not Ellen White. Ellen, not the Bible, had limited light!

The question has been asked me, "Do you think that the Lord has any more light for us as a people?" I answer that He has light that is new to us, and yet it is precious old light that is to shine forth from the Word of truth [the Bible]. We have only the glimmerings of the rays of the light that is yet to come to us. [1SM 401]

[Overaged]

Originally Posted By: ClubV12

Truth, being progressive, will always be in harmony with the bible and with Ellen White.

No - you can't do that. The Bible contains all truth, not Ellen White. Ellen, not the Bible, had limited light!

The question has been asked me, "Do you think that the Lord has any more light for us as a people?" I answer that He has light that is new to us, and yet it is precious old light that is to shine forth from the Word of truth [the Bible]. We have only the glimmerings of the rays of the light that is yet to come to us. [1SM 401]

You are correct; infact, Ellen White called her work "the lesser light," and she said many times to always test her work by scripture. I think that is all that ClubV12 has in mind.

[phkrause]

You are correct; infact, Ellen White called her work "the lesser light," and she said many times to always test her work by scripture. I think that is all that ClubV12 has in mind.

[ClubV12]

It's amazing how the most simple statement's can be so confusing for those who consistently want to minimize Ellen Whites work under the Pharisitical robe of "I only accept the bible as truth."

[Sonny]

It's amazing how the most simple statement's can be so confusing for those who consistently want to minimize Ellen Whites work under the Pharisitical robe of "I only accept the bible as truth."

Nothing Pharisaical about only the Bible. Please explain how I am being self-righteous by making the Bible the measuring stick of truth and not Ellen White!

[Gustave]

The Bible does not mention "Roman Catholic;" it's just that simple.

I've read all the Early Church Fathers and given they were operating at the time...

...Christians were being hunted down and killed for their Faith.

...The Faith recorded in their texts was absolutely NOT Adventist.

...Looks "Catholic" to me or at the outside Eastern Orthodox.

...But certainly not SDA.

[Overaged]

Originally Posted By: Overaged

The Bible does not mention "Roman Catholic;" it's just that simple.

I've read all the Early Church Fathers and given they were operating at the time...

...Christians were being hunted down and killed for their Faith.

...The Faith recorded in their texts was absolutely NOT Adventist.

...Looks "Catholic" to me or at the outside Eastern Orthodox.

...But certainly not SDA.

Very good point my friend. I agree; neither "Adventist" or "Roman Catholic" is in the Bible, in terms of "the first church." That is, if you are searching for specific denominational names.

I have read "the early church fathers," I have all of their writings, but I do not see these "Fathers" as being a part of any kind of "first church" for the simple reason "Roman Catholics" are not thus spoken of in the Bible. This is something the alleged "fathers" of the church cannot/do not reflect in their writings.

The best I could concede with you on is that The Roman Catholic Church was one of the denominations that came into existence during new testament times. But it is never once spoken of in the Bible as "the first Church."

There are many lovely Christians in your Church; Adventists don't mean to say otherwise; unfortunately some do.

[ClubV12]

All it take's to be a Seventh-day Adventist is to keep the Sabbath and be looking for the return of Christ. Adam was an Adventist. The Jews were Adventists. The early church was Adventist, SDA in fact.

[Overaged]

It's amazing how the most simple statement's can be so confusing for those who consistently want to minimize Ellen Whites work under the Pharisitical robe of "I only accept the bible as truth."

I can certainly understand such confusion though. There are a lot of people who mis-use Ellen White's writings. It is a great concern to many now because of this.

[Overaged]

All it take's to be a Seventh-day Adventist is to keep the Sabbath and be looking for the return of Christ. Adam was an Adventist. The Jews were Adventists. The early church was Adventist, SDA in fact.

True; but they were not known by the denominational name of "Seventh-day Adventist." What were they actually known by?

[ClubV12]

The name God gave them then, "christians". The name God instructed us to use today is Seventh-day Adventist.

"There are a lot of people who mis-use Ellen White's writings." I keep hearing that, but I rarely see it in real life. I think it tends to be a "web thing". :)