Are Roman Catholics Correct about SDA: Part 3

[BobRyan]

Quote:

The message of Revelation 14, announcing the fall of

Babylon, must apply to religious bodies that were once pure and

have become corrupt. Since this message follows the warning of

the judgment, it must be given in the last days; therefore it

cannot refer to the Roman Church alone, for that church has

been in a fallen condition for many centuries.--Page 383. {6BIO 327.5}

Thus the RCC has fallen according to that statement - but it fell before the other denominations that in turn fall at some point after the first angel's message is fully given and before the completion of the 2nd angel's message.

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

My Bible has 66 books.

Quote:

Is 66 - "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship" [added note: This refers to the Sabbath in the new earth]

Lev 23 - The Seventh-day Sabbath is a "day of Holy Convocation". [added note: theses Sabbaths are the old feast-days]

In my Bible I am told that God is the author of all scripture - not just Ex 20. (see 2Pet 1:20-21) and so we can be confident that when God says in Is 66 and Lev 23 that the Sabbath is a day of worship for all mankind - that He actually knows what He is talking about.

in fact this idea of taking the full view of the subject is part of something we call exegesis.

in Christ,

Bob

[Dr. Rich]

BobR, It was Ballinger who added JUST ONE WORD to what EGW wrote about the RCC not being babylon. He added the word "ALONE", thereby changing they whole shooting match! He admitted doing this because "he thought EGW must have meant this". The truth is, EGW made it clear that the RCC couldn't possible be babylon! Now go check it out!

[BobRyan]

BobR, It was Ballinger who added JUST ONE WORD

I don't have the video monitor for that but I do know that Ellen White was alive at the time.

that she admitted that the RCC (Rome) was Babylon.

That the protestant Churches now also constitute Babylon

And that the RCC fell long before the other denominations - since they have not yet fallen and the RCC has.

Turns out - the obvious points are so glaringly obvious that the conclusion is hard to miss.

in Christ,

Bob

[phkrause]

Excellent posts Bob. And the video was very interesting, it kinda of reminded me of the other thread, where I posted an interview that kind of was the for runner to this video.

[BobRyan]

Excellent posts Bob. And the video was very interesting, it kinda of reminded me of the other thread, where I posted an interview that kind of was the for runner to this video.

Thanks - it is certainly an eye opener!

And thanks for your post on that other thread in Townhall with the interview.

in Christ,

Bob

[Sonny]

In my Bible I am told that God is the author of all scripture - not just Ex 20. (see 2Pet 1:20-21) and so we can be confident that when God says in Is 66 and Lev 23 that the Sabbath is a day of worship for all mankind - that He actually knows what He is talking about.

You are not taking time and place into account and therefore you are perverting the very scripture you claim to uphold. Taken in context the Sabbath is not about worship.

[Sonny]

"Not yet, however, can it be said that "Babylon is fallen"

Apparently you placed the above on your ignore list.

[BobRyan]

In my Bible I am told that God is the author of all scripture - not just Ex 20. (see 2Pet 1:20-21) and so we can be confident that when God says in Is 66 and Lev 23 that the Sabbath is a day of worship for all mankind - that He actually knows what He is talking about.

[Sonny]

God is the author of scripture - God says the Sabbath is about worship and even tells us that "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship" - in Is 66.

I'm going to show you how you are wrong:

22 "For as the new heavens and the new earth Which I will make shall remain before Me," says the Lord, "So shall your descendants and your name remain. 23 And it shall come to pass That from one New Moon to another, And from one Sabbath to another, All flesh shall come to worship before Me," says the Lord....

This is a future issue when the new heavens and earth are made. When you misuse the Scripture for your own personal views you are perverting the Bible. You need to be more honest....

[BobRyan]

Quote:

The woman, Babylon, of Revelation 17, is described as

"arrayed in purple and scarlet color, and decked with gold and

precious stones . . . and upon her forehead was a name written,

Mystery, Babylon the Great, the mother of harlots." . . . Babylon is further declared to be "that great city, which reineth over the

kings of the earth." The power that for so many centuries

maintained despotic sway over the monarchs of Christendom, is

Rome. {6BIO 327.1}

By her daughters must be symbolized churches that cling to

her doctrines and traditions, and follow her example of

sacrificing the truth and the approval of God, in order to form an

unlawful alliance with the world.--Pages 382, 383. {6BIO 327.3}

The message of Revelation 14, announcing the fall of

Babylon, must apply to religious bodies that were once pure and

have become corrupt. Since this message follows the warning of

the judgment, it must be given in the last days; therefore it

cannot refer to the Roman Church alone, for that church has

been in a fallen condition for many centuries.--Page 383. {6BIO 327.5}

Ellen White points out that Rome does not fall at the first or second angels message - but was already in the fallen state of Babylon and is the mother of other churches that will fall in response to the 3 Angel's messages.

In the above we see -

1. That Rome is indeed part of Babylon -- see the first quote.

The power that for so many centuries

maintained despotic sway over the monarchs of Christendom, is

Rome. {6BIO 327.1}

2. The protesting churches that came out of Rome are the daughters and so part of Babylon -

3. That the Papacy falls long BEFORE her daughters and thus all Babylon is not fallen until the daughters also fall.

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

God is the author of scripture - God says the Sabbath is about worship and even tells us that "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship" - in Is 66.

[Sonny]

The text says that in the New Earth ALL MANKIND comes before God to Worship - the intent of Sabbath is worship in the New Earth.

[Sonny]

Originally Posted By: Sonny

"Not yet, however, can it be said that "Babylon is fallen"

Apparently you placed the above on your ignore list.

Yes, you did....

The Romans church has not fallen from grace because she hasn't heard the everlasting gospel. When it is preached, with a loud voice, then if she rejects it she will fall.

There are many SDA who are apart of Babylon. They teach salvation partially by faith and partially by law. Paul says such will fall from grace also unless they too accept the gospel:

Gal 5:4 You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

[Dr. Rich]

sonny, what makes you think that someone can fall that has never before been righteious? What are they going to fall from? It should be clear that only Israel/Jews can and are the nation that has fallen twice. Jesus made it clear with the fig tree being cursed and what He said in Matthew 21:43 that they are now toast. Interestingly, they (the Zionests) still believe they are God's gift to the world and as such, they are working to control the whole world.

Yes, this is the same 'wounded head' that get's healed and causes the whole world to follow after the beast---not them mind you, but the first beast of Rev. 13, the NEW WORLD ORDER.

[skyblue888]

Originally Posted By: Dr. Rich

BobR, It was Ballinger who added JUST ONE WORD

I don't have the video monitor for that but I do know that Ellen White was alive at the time.

that she admitted that the RCC (Rome) was Babylon.

That the protestant Churches now also constitute Babylon

And that the RCC fell long before the other denominations - since they have not yet fallen and the RCC has.

Turns out - the obvious points are so glaringly obvious that the conclusion is hard to miss.

in Christ,

Bob

True but let us not forget that God sent a warning to us that we too were in danger of becoming a sister to Babylon.

sky

[miz3]

True but let us not forget that God sent a warning to us that we too were in danger of becoming a sister to Babylon.

Does that mean SDA could forfeit their status as the "last day church", "the remnant of the remnant", etc.?

If that is true, would God raise up another people?

Third question, could Pastor chick be correct that his "Creation Seventh Day Adventist" Church is really God changing horses because SDA blew it?

[skyblue888]

The last call of Matt.22 in latter rain power still remains. The church must reject that last call and persecute the bearers of that message before it can be said that probation has closed for the church.

sky

[miz3]

skyblue888,

Pastor chick and his church think you are wrong and they also think that they, Creation Seventh Day Adventist Church are now the true remnant.

Why are they wrong?

[Sonny]

Does that mean SDA could forfeit their status as the "last day church", "the remnant of the remnant", etc.?

The SDA church has never been the remnant. The last day Remnant forms after the proclamation of the gospel....

[Dr. Rich]

sonny, I wouldn't worry about being the 'remnant' or not. What you should worry about is that you know the truth or not. Knowing and practicing the truth is the only way since all those who believe in and practice a lie are toast. (Rev. 21:8 and 22:15)

The SDA church is now the KOH or the 'ten virgins' found in Matt. 25:1-13. When the shaking hits the fan, it would be a good thing to follow after those who follow after the ONE leader, and that is Jesus Christ. His words which were given to us by His eyewitnesses are what are necessary for salvation. You will not find any grace in the ten virgin prophecy.

[Sonny]

sonny, I wouldn't worry about being the 'remnant' or not.

I don't....

[skyblue888]

skyblue888,

Pastor chick and his church think you are wrong and they also think that they, Creation Seventh Day Adventist Church are now the true remnant.

Why are they wrong?

miz3

______________________________

The CSDA people teach that the judgment of the living began in 1988 when they were taken to court by the SDA church for trademark lawsuit. To begin with the judgment of the living cannot and will not take place until the mission of the Gospel is completed. See the parables of the net and of the wedding garment and the inspired commentaties in C.O.L.122,123,310. Both place the judgment of the living at the end of the loud cry.

From that the CSDA people teach that the message of Revelation 18:1-5 applies to the SDA church since 1988. To them the image of the beast was then made and they believe that the call to come out of Babylon the Great (SDA church) has been present truth ever since. The truth is that verse 5 of Rev.18 has not even been fulfilled yet and until it has the message to come out of Babylon the Great (union of all the churches, Catholic and so-called protestants who will influence the secular power to enforce their religious decrees) cannot be present truth. It won't be present truth until the sins of Babylon have reached unto heaven and we are clearly told that that won't happen until Sunday is enforced. Then the message to come out of Babylon the Great will be present truth and will be proclaimed in demonstration of the Spirit and power of God.

The CSDA people teach that the 144,000 are sealed and then give the loud cry. The 144,000 do not give a message to the world. The latter rain and loud cry will cause a people to grow up into Christ until they reflect Him fully. These will receive the final seal and become the 144,000 who will go through the time of Jacob's trouble.

In order to be among the 144,000 one must successfully pass the great final test (death decree prior to the close of probation) which comes at the end of the loud cry. Unless one passes this test he will not pass the scrutiny of the judgment of the living and therefore will not receive the final seal preparatory to entering the time of Jacob's trouble. Unless one receives the final seal at the end of the loud cry, one cannot be numbered among the 144,000 which is a symbolic number anyway for these people are also symbolized by the number 5, the five wise virgins.

So the 144,000, as a group of people, will not exist until after the great final test, until after the judgment of the living which takes place at the close of human probation.

For all these reasons that I am aware of, the CSDA church cannot be from God.

sky

[Dr. Rich]

Sky, how do you know the number 144000 is a symbol? Yes, the ten virgins are a symbol because Jesus said so in verse one. They are a symbol for the Kingdom of Heaven at the time Jesus comes like a theif (not the same event as the coming in the clouds). But the 144,000 are only the "FEW" from this group as you can read about in Rev. 3:4.

[BobRyan]

skyblue888,

Pastor chick and his church think you are wrong and they also think that they, Creation Seventh Day Adventist Church are now the true remnant.

Why are they wrong?

1. Some people think the moon landing was faked.

2. Some people think the earth is flat.

3. There is even a guy on this very board that thinks the NT is filled with the lies of Paul the Apostle - in his slice-and-dice-the-Bible model.

Conclusion: The proof that SDAs have the right doctrine has never been of the form "because nobody out there thinks we are wrong". I am sure we all agree on that.

in Christ,

Bob