BobRyan Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 As we saw that even well-known non-SDA Bible scholars admit to Ellen White's point about the abomination of desolation applying to the Roman armies that surrounded the city - and then they LEFT allowing the Christians to flee. Once again Ellen White's writing is confirmed even by non-SDA scholarship! And your point above is well taken. Thank you for sharing that. Some people take a pick-and-choose approach to the Bible and to the prophetic ministry of Ellen White and the result is a Bible of their own making and an Ellen White ministry of their own making. As you have pointed out - we are not saying that everything Ellen White said at the dinner table is inspired of God - but reason should let us admit to the published statements in her day - made by her for that very purpose... as something she considered to be included in her prophetic ministry. Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316.
BobRyan Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 ClubV12, You obviously have trouble following a clear statement. I was stating that the Bible is the HIGHEST INTELLECT because it is GOD'S WORD! Lesser intellects are those beneath the Bible. Ellen White herself placed herself beneath the Bible, Holy Scripture. Therefore the "lesser intellects" being everything but the Bible are not able to fully understand the GREATER INTELLECT OF THE BIBLE! Interesting story - but entirely misleading. The ONLY reason the Bible has any value at all - is because it is a message from God and God is infinite in knowledge, power and authority. The ONLY reason that the writing of Ellen White has any value at all - is because her messages are from God and God is infinite knowledge, power and authority. Just stating the obvious at this point. Ellen White is not hearing from a "lesser god" while Jonah hears from a "greater wiser God". All such fiction is outside the Bible. in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316.
miz3 Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 BobRyan, By your logic Ellen White and the Bible would be equal. Are you saying that Ellen White and her messages are EQUAL with the Bible? Quote
cheddar Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 Originally Posted By: cheddar Where's my answer for Matt 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Riddle me this one Batman. Oh I see ... ok so "one more time" only this time "with feeling" As we saw that even well-known non-SDA Bible scholars admit to Ellen White's point about the abomination of desolation applying to the Roman armies that surrounded the city - and then they LEFT allowing the Christians to flee. Once again Ellen White's writing is confirmed even by non-SDA scholarship! One more Time! How many generations have passed since 70AD? Quote
miz3 Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 Are her messages from God, miz3? By your logic Ellen White and the Bible would be equal. Are you saying that Ellen White and her messages are EQUAL with the Bible? Well? Quote
ClubV12 Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 Just asking a simple question miz3, do you feel Ellen White is an inspired messenger of God, or not? She clearly states her work is a lesser light leading to a greater light, so "which is greater" has been answered already. Quote
miz3 Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 You say she is the "lesser light" but your actions clearly show that you believe Ellen White is the "greater light". That is my point! Thus, the Bible is the "GREATER INTELLECT"! Ellen White is the "LESSER INTELLECT"! As such we do not need a "lesser intellect" to understand the "greater intellect". Quote
ClubV12 Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 She is a lesser light miz3, that is as plain as I can state it, I've never said anything other than that! Do you think she is a prophet with a message for his end time people, or not? Quote
skyblue888 Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 Why don't we let her answer that question. "Early in my youth I was asked several times, Are you a prophet? I have ever responded, I am the Lord's messenger. I know that many have called me a prophet, but I have made no claim to this title. My Saviour declared me to be His messenger. 'Your work,' He instructed me,' 'is to bear My word. Strange things will arise, and in your youth I set you apart to bear the message to the erring ones, to carry the word before unbelievers, and with pen and voice to reprove from the Word actions that are not right. Exhort from the Word. I will make My Word open to you. It shall not be as a strange language. In the true eloquence of simplicity, with voice and pen, the messages that I give shall be heard from one who has never learned in the schools. My Spirit and My power shall be with you.' 'Be not afraid of men, for My shield shall protect you. It is not you that speaketh; it is the Lord that giveth the messages of warning and reproof. Never deviate from the truth under any circumstances. Give the light I shall give you. The messages for these last days shall be written in books, and shall stand immortalized, to testify against those who have once rejoiced in the light, but who have been led to give it up because of the seductive influences of evil." 1 S.M.32. The messages contained in her books are not her opinions but light from the Throne of God. And here is the key as to how we are to study these books: "The Testimonies themselves will be the key that will explain the messages given as Scripture is explained by Scripture. Many will read with eargerness the messages reproving wrong, that they may learn what they must do to be saved. Light will dawn upon the understanding, and the Spirit will make an impression on minds, as Bible truth is clearly and simply presented in the messages that since 1846 God has been sending His people. These messages are to find their place in hearts, and transformations will take place." 1 S.M.42. We are to compare statement with statement as Scripture is explained by Scripture. sky Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
miz3 Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 If you say she is the "lesser light" then why do you use Ellen White as if she were the "greater light"? Why do you use her to "confirm" Doctrine before you accept the Doctrine? Quote
ClubV12 Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 "Why do you use her to "confirm" Doctrine before you accept the Doctrine?" I don't, for DOCTRINE, we need only the bible. As the founders went over each and every point of doctrine and established with solid bible proof Ellen White was a significant part of that process. For EDIFICATION on spiritual matters it would be foolish to reject the counsel of the Lords messenger. When the early church were establishing points of doctrine, they did not rely on a single person either. They to studied the word, had varying opinions, counseled one another and came to conclusions on the issues, together. They, like the modern day founders of the SDA church, built upon a foundation laid down by the prophets that came before them. Quote
skyblue888 Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 The fact that Mrs. White referred to herself as the "lesser light" does not mean that the light shining from her books is a lesser light. She spoke from a humble point of view. The light that is in her books came from God Himself. Mrs. White herself stated that through the Testimonies of God's Spirit the professed people of God have been entrusted with eternal interests. They have been made the depositories of truth pregnant with eternal results, the keepers of light that is to illuminate the whole world. (T.M.397) If that should be referred to as "lesser light" what then is greater light? We have only begun to scratch what is in these books. sky Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
skyblue888 Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 "The messages for these last days shall be written in books, and shall stand immortalized, to testify against those who have once rejoiced in the light, but who have been led to give it up because of the seductive influences of evil." If these books are going to be "immortalized" why should they be considered as "lesser light"? I have always believed that through the Testimonies great light has shone upon the professed people of God. sky Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
skyblue888 Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 "My Saviour declared me to be His messenger. 'Your work,' He instructed me,' 'is to bear My word. Strange things will arise, and in your youth I set you apart to bear the message to the erring ones, to carry the word before unbelievers, and with pen and voice to reprove from the Word actions that are not right. Exhort from the Word. I will make My Word open to you. It shall not be as a strange language. In the true eloquence of simplicity, with voice and pen, the messages that I give shall be heard from one who has never learned in the schools. My Spirit and My power shall be with you." The Lord told her that her work was to bear His Word! Does that sound like a lesser light? The Lord told her that she was to carry the Word before unbelievers and with pen and voice to reprove from the Word actions that are not right, to exhort from the Word. He said to her that He would make His Word open to her and that it would not be a strange language to her, as it is to so many people. That in the true eloquence of simplicity, with pen and voice, the messages that He would give her shall be heard from one who has never learned in the schools. The Lord told her that His Spirit and power would be with her! Can you ask for better credentials than these? I tell you club, we can accept the light from her books as the greater light since it came directly from the Throne of God and that the Spirit was to enlarge upon the Word as to make it much easier for us to understand, "in the true eloquence of simplicity!" sky Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
miz3 Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 I don't agree with you sky but I respect your position as being consistent. It is unfortunate that ClubV12 does not want to admit his inconsistencies. Sky it is honest to say that you believe that Ellen White is on a par with the Bible and that both are great lights. This is what you, sky, have done and I respect your consistent position. Now if only the SDA Church would be as honest as you are sky they would face fewer problems. I have a different position concerning Ellen White and the Bible but I certainly can respect your position. What is my position on Ellen White and the Bible? Quote
ClubV12 Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 "...we can accept the light from her books as the greater light since it came directly from the Throne of God." Thats a beautiful thought, and takes nothing away from the bible, it just builds and expands our understanding of it. Quote
BobRyan Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 one more time - the generation in Christ's day (30 AD) did see the events of 70AD. As noted here - As we saw that even well-known non-SDA Bible scholars admit to Ellen White's point about the abomination of desolation applying to the Roman armies that surrounded the city - and then they LEFT allowing the Christians to flee. Once again Ellen White's writing is confirmed even by non-SDA scholarship! Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316.
BobRyan Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 ClubV12, You obviously have trouble following a clear statement. I was stating that the Bible is the HIGHEST INTELLECT because it is GOD'S WORD! Lesser intellects are those beneath the Bible. Ellen White herself placed herself beneath the Bible, Holy Scripture. Therefore the "lesser intellects" being everything but the Bible are not able to fully understand the GREATER INTELLECT OF THE BIBLE! Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316.
miz3 Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 BobRyan, Is Ellen White equal then to Jeremiah, Isaiah, Daniel, Paul, etc.? Quote
skyblue888 Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 Ellen White equal to God or the Bible!!! Was that ever an issue? That is not the issue. The issue is that the messages in her books came directly from the throne of God and these messages are the commentaries of the Spirit of God, the Author of the Bible, upon the Word. Since the messages in her books are the commentaries of the Spirit of God upon the very words that He Himself has inspired, how could we consider these messages as lesser light? What we have is the Bible plus the Lord's own teaching as to what He means in His word. sky Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
skyblue888 Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 BobRyan, Is Ellen White equal then to Jeremiah, Isaiah, Daniel, Paul, etc.? Are Jeremiah,Isaiah, Daniel, Paul, equal to God? That is not the issue. We know they were only instruments of God just as Ellen was. But what we have in Ellen White is more than Jeremiah or any of the prophets in Old Testament times. What we have in the writings of Ellen White is the whole Bible graced with the commentaries of the divine Spirit. Now what is that? is that not great light? To me, that is more than the Bible. It is the Bible plus being at the school of Christ sitting at the feet of Jesus, being taught by the Spirit as to the true meaning of His Word. sky Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
BobRyan Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 Originally Posted By: miz3 Is Ellen White equal then to Jeremiah, Isaiah, Daniel, Paul, etc.? Are Jeremiah,Isaiah, Daniel, Paul, equal to God? Indeed that is the question. Are the Bible writers themselves "mini-gods" such that some later prophet who gets a message from God himself is "less than" because that prophet is not also "a mini-god" like Jonah supposedly was? Is that where some people are going with this? Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316.
BobRyan Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 BobRyan, Is Ellen White equal then to Jeremiah, Isaiah, Daniel, Paul, etc.? Turns out all of them are human. All had sinful natures. All needed the Gospel. None of them were mini-gods ... no not even Jonah. Why is this coming as such a surprise? in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316.
skyblue888 Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 If her books are to be "immortalized" what does that say? sky miz, i did not say that her writings were on a par with the Bible, i said they were the divine commentaries upon the Word of God by the Author of the Bible. I said that based on the quotes provided in my earlier posts. sky Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
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