70 x 7

[Truth Files]

The time frame of all unfulfilled visionary prophecy is still future. All fulfilled prophecy presented in scripture has transpired through the end of the 69th week of the 70 weeks of years decreed for national Israel. A week of years is the Jewish “heptad”. Each year represents 360 literal prophetic days. This calculates to a 7 year period of time or 2,520 days. The 69 weeks of years represent a time period of 173,880 prophetic days or 483 years

This time frame began at the decree to return and build the city Jerusalem from the Babylonian captivity [under Persian rule] in 445 B.C. 483 prophetic years lapsed in about 33 A.D. and the Lord was then cut off at His first coming. There is one “heptad” (one 7 year period) remaining for the completion of the decreed amount of total time of 490 years and this 7 year period is still future. [Daniel 9; 12]

It is significant that the nation of unbelieving Israel is existing as an independent political entity in the land of Israel today after many centuries of domination by the Gentiles and exile from their land. They are there to experience the coming 70th week decreed for the nation which is still pending.

Israel's continuous intransigence against the Lord's providence and direction has resulted in the loss of His personal guidance and direction. Israel is still in this condition at the present time. His long term preservation of Israel's national identity is specifically for His ultimate plans and purposes ..... not Israel's self-generated nationalism. [Jeremiah 30; Ezekiel 36; 37; 38; 39]

The years following the reign of Israel's prominent kings David and his son Solomon included political division of the nation and subsequent invasion and assimilation of ten of the tribes of Israel by the Assyrians. Successive dominance of the remainder of the nation followed by the three empires of neo-Babylon, Persia, and Grecia.

The neo-Babylonians conquered what was left of the remnant, took many captives, and relocated the population. It was under the rule of the next empire, Persia, that a remnant of Israel was allowed to return to the land of Israel [445 B.C.]. This began the count down of the 70 weeks of years [490 literal prophetic years]. 483 years have lapsed with one 7 year period yet to be experienced by Israel after their second return from the nations of the Gentiles to the land of Israel. [Daniel 9:24-27]

If the death of Jesus occurred around 33 A.D. then the following calculation can be made. The time lapse would be 444 calendar years to the first century from 445 B.C. plus 33 additional years to equal 477 years. The conversion factor for 360 day prophetic years can be calculated by dividing 365 by 360 which is 1.0138. Prophetic years are shorter so there are more of them included in the time frame of 477 calendar years.

There are 483.5826 [477 x 1.0138] prophetic years in the time frame. If one adjusts this result by leap year days, the final calculation is very close to 483 years [69 weeks of years]. Daniel's vision of the time frame allows for this amount of time to lapse after which the Messiah Prince would be cut off and have nothing.

The last segment of 7 years [1 week of years] is still yet future and requires Israel's return in part to the Land of Israel from the nations. This final 7 years will include future prophetic events leading up to the visible return of Israel's Messiah who is Jesus Christ.

The covenant of 70 weeks of years is described in the 9th chapter of Daniel. The Lord will confirm this covenant by executing the last 7 years including the 6 objectives that will be met for national Israel at the time of the end which is still pending. These objectives must be met for national Israel at that time since most of the nation has been and is in the state of unbelief. Some will turn and accept their Messiah and King, Jesus Christ.

This period will be exactly 2,520 prophetic days long and there will be another 30 days and 45 days added. The Lord will turn on satan's beast and his kingdom of followers and destroy it during the 30 day period ending with the battle of Armageddon. The Lord will then appear to the world and gather all of the mortal survivors of the tribulations of the 70th week and separate them for entrance into His kingdom during the next 45 days.

[Musicman1228]

Where in Scripture did God say to convert a day/year in prophecy into 360 literal days? I don't find this anywhere. I do find in Leviticus 25 a 'day/year', a 'week of years', 'a week of Sabbath years', and by extrapolation (going to the next logical lever) 'a week of 49 years (70x7)', and then the limit of forgiveness of God '70 x 49 (7x7)'.

360 days/year is a GUESS and is not in Scripture. God does not guess with timing.

[cricket]

Matthew 18:21-23

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

Forgiveness

21 Then Peter came and said to Him, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Up to seven times?” 22 Jesus *said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.

23 “For this reason the kingdom of heaven [a]may be compared to a king who wished to settle accounts with his slaves.

________

Jesus tells Peter to forgive people seventy times seven. Jesus doesn't say God's forgiveness is limited.

[Truth Files]

Study the OP and references given Music

The evidence of the Jewish heptad used to define the 70 weeks of years and the time lapse calculation through the end of the 69th week measuring 483 [360 day] years .... 173880 days

Daniel's visions [Daniel 9; 12] and Revelation's correstpoding measurements [Revelation 11:2; 12:6; 12:14; 13:5] return the same related time lapse measurements ..... in days ..... not years

The Heptad:

Lexicon Results Strong's H7620 - shabuwa` שָׁבוּעַ

Transliteration

shabuwa`

Pronunciation

shä·vü'·ah (Key)

Part of Speech

masculine noun

Root Word (Etymology)

Properly, pass part of שָׁבַע (H7650) as a denom. of שֶׁבַע (H7651)

TWOT Reference

2318d

Outline of Biblical Usage 1) seven, period of seven, heptad, week

1) period of seven days, a week

2) Feast of Weeks

3) heptad, seven (of years)

The coming 70th week will consists of 1260 days +1260 days .... the second 1260 days is also presented as 42 months [30 day months]

Daniel then adds another 30 days and 45 days given in 12:12

The additional 30 days will involve the Lord's turning upon Satan's beast and his kingdom of followers culminating at Armageddon [Revelation 16:1-16; 19:11-21]

The next 45 days will include these gatherings of the survivors of the coming tribulation period of 2550 days in length [Matthew 24:29-31 [israel]; 25:31-46 [the nations]]

[cheddar]

Study the OP and references given Music

The evidence of the Jewish heptad used to define the 70 weeks of years and the time lapse calculation through the end of the 69th week measuring 483 [360 day] years .... 173880 days

Daniel's visions [Daniel 9; 12] and Revelation's correstpoding measurements [Revelation 11:2; 12:6; 12:14; 13:5] return the same related time lapse measurements ..... in days ..... not years

The Heptad:

Lexicon Results Strong's H7620 - shabuwa` שָׁבוּעַ

Transliteration

shabuwa`

Pronunciation

shä·vü'·ah (Key)

Part of Speech

masculine noun

Root Word (Etymology)

Properly, pass part of שָׁבַע (H7650) as a denom. of שֶׁבַע (H7651)

TWOT Reference

2318d

Outline of Biblical Usage 1) seven, period of seven, heptad, week

1) period of seven days, a week

2) Feast of Weeks

3) heptad, seven (of years)

The coming 70th week will consists of 1260 days +1260 days .... the second 1260 days is also presented as 42 months [30 day months]

Daniel then adds another 30 days and 45 days given in 12:12

The additional 30 days will involve the Lord's turning upon Satan's beast and his kingdom of followers culminating at Armageddon [Revelation 16:1-16; 19:11-21]

The next 45 days will include these gatherings of the survivors of the coming tribulation period of 2550 days in length [Matthew 24:29-31 [israel]; 25:31-46 [the nations]]

You make the prophetic time periods 10 times more complicated then they really are!

It's clear that you see some time periods as day for a year (70 weeks) and then others as literal (42 months). There is no prophetic rule that says you can do this, except for the ones you make up.

The time periods are either day for a year or literal, take your pick but don't mix and match.

You would make a good Adventist with all your creative day for a year tomfoolery.

[Truth Files]

"The time periods are either day for a year or literal, take your pick but don't mix and match"

>Hold on now .... my presentation does not mix the false "day for a year" idea with the literal 24 hour day ,,,, and neither do the scriptures

>You prove to me what you have stated

..... and don't lie about another's posting in order to win an argument

>Deliberately misquoting another's post is not the behavior of a follower of Jesus Christ

>Who do you follow?

[Truth Files]

"You make the prophetic time periods 10 times more complicated then they really are!"

>This sounds like a debating tactic to me .... true, or not?

>If one understands the prophetic time line and time values there is nothing complicated about it

>If you do not understand then you should spend some time and effort learning these things if you are going to present Bible prophecy to the public .... or even if you are just a side liner

>I would suggest that instead of taking shots at another poster, you need to post and explain your view on a given subject for others to consider

>What do you think? ..... mature and reasonable behavior for you .... or not?

[miz3]

You make the prophetic time periods 10 times more complicated then they really are!

It's clear that you see some time periods as day for a year (70 weeks) and then others as literal (42 months). There is no prophetic rule that says you can do this, except for the ones you make up.

The time periods are either day for a year or literal, take your pick but don't mix and match.

You would make a good Adventist with all your creative day for a year tomfoolery.

I don't know but I suspect you and I would disagree on some things. Having said that I do believe you are correct on this thing.

The complications that occur because of this as you state correctly "mix and match" approach to Prophecy is nothing but shear foolishness. I have seen charts on "end time prophecy" that would make the Obama Government Health Chart look like a kindergarten in comparison.

God does not send humans such complex messages!

SDA and other religious types often like to make it so complex that only they can interpret what it means and they seek followers that will follow them instead of God.

Such no it alls love to use Daniel and Revelation to create complex theories of what is going to happen like some gypsy fortune teller or psychic!

[Truth Files]

I see no complexity in the prophetic visions at all .... but one does have to render them all together leaving none to conjecture

Does this task take time and effort? Yes .... and those who are called to do it must do the time .... there are no short cuts

Not all are called to study, interpret, and teach the Lord's more sure word of prophecy .... but a total complete and correct rendering is possible, and when discovered .... a bullet proof rock bottom presentation of exactly what the Lord has intended to convey

It all makes perfect sense .... no contradictions, no stone un-turned

.... and I am not an SDA member by the way .... far from it

[miz3]

Whether you are SDA or nonSDA is no concern of mine.

There is one big flaw in all these prophetic theories regardless of who they come from.

There is no year/day Principle anywhere in the Bible!

Without your precious year/day nonsense everything falls a part!

[Truth Files]

"There is no year/day Principle anywhere in the Bible!

Without your precious year/day nonsense everything falls a part!"

I don't think you read well Miz3 .... or maybe you are just being argumentative .... do you think?

There is no year for a day basis in scripture [that a day is equal to one year of time lapse]

But there are scriptures with a specified number of days given

When the prophetic scriptures give a number of days, that is what is presented [Daniel 8:14; 12:11-12; Revelation 12:6]

When the prophetic scriptures give a number of 30 day months, that is what is presented [Revelation 9:5; 11:2; 13:5]

If you do not know this, or ignore it, you will not be able to understand the Lord's prophetic word

Here are two examples of individuals who attempted to predict certain datings for the second coming of Jesus Christ by using a year equals a day:

William Miller who used years instead of days to predict the second coming of Jesus Christ .... he was wrong

Ellis Skolfield who used days for days to calculate the first coming of the Messiah [which is correct], but then switched

to days for years in attempting to reach 1948 from a selected arbitrary date of Mohammed's invention in the period of 600 A.D. ..... there can be no switching

He wanted to reach this dating for attempting to predict the second coming of Jesus Christ by adding a bogus average 60 year generation time lapse of human longevity .... he was wrong

Both of these false prophets failed in their predictions because they did not adhere to the Bible's measurement of prophetic time lapse and they ignored the Lord's direct admonition that no one can know the dating of His next visitation .... He has not revealed this date to anyone

[cricket]

How does one account for leap years? Just curious. Not trying to argue.

[miz3]

Ok!

If you are not using the year/day nonsense, then how do you get 483 years?

Is it because the Bible uses "weeks" instead of days and months?

Thanks for educating me!

[Truth Files]

Miz3,

The 70 7's are weeks of years .... this measurement of a week is the Jewish heptad ..... one week of 7 years [each year of 360 days long]

70 of these weeks of years is equal to 490 years

483 years [69 weeks] have transpired from the return of the Israelite captives in Babylon to rebuild the city of Jerusalem ending in about 33 A.D. when Jesus was cut off ..... there is one week [7years] that has never taken place .... but it is coming and will be fullfilled just as the prophetic scriptures tell .... there are many visions of the Bible prophets that view this end time drama including the Lord's own words in His discourse about the time of the end and His book of Revelation

[ClubV12]

cricket, it's a rather complicated question that raised a lot of debate in Millers time and that continues today. The short answer is that Miller and SNOW (the man that actually calculated October 22, 1844 as the corrected date) used the ancient Jewish calendar. NOT the more modern Jewish calendar. In the ancient calendar the months, simply put, were 30 days. To arrive at the 1844 date they began by verifying the begin and end dates of 70 weeks part of the prophecy (during which Jesus was crucified). While the math is straight forward, it is never the less, complex. It requires certain historical events and their actual dates along the way to line up with certain prophetic dates along the way.

The end result is a "chart" that is difficult to refute and has, almost surprisingly, been accepted as accurate by many theologians around the world, well outside the SDA circles. They were other men, besides Miller that had also calculated the date of this event, the end of the 2,300 year prophecy. But no one knew what it meant!

Miller and Snow were ultimately correct on the October 22, 1844 end date, but they were not correct on what it MEANT! Ellen White tells us this was Gods purpose, that He held His hand over the meaning to bring the people of God to a point of decision. This was a great test for their time. Many became discouraged and abandoned their faith, others studied the scriptures and sought a close walk with the Lord. Hiram Edson was the first person given a vision, some call it a revelation, as to just what the meaning of 1844 was. Until then, there were two camps of people. Those who believed the Lord was coming, and this included Sister White, and those who rejected the idea. Correctly basing their position on, "No man knows the day or hour."

A third group should be mentioned as well. Those who could care less about the whole event and held contempt for everyone that had anything to do with the whole thing.

The Adventist church was not officially organized until 1863, long after Miller passed away.

[miz3]

Quote:

Miz3,

The 70 7's are weeks of years .... this measurement of a week is the Jewish heptad ..... one week of 7 years [each year of 360 days long]

70 of these weeks of years is equal to 490 years

483 years [69 weeks] have transpired from the return of the Israelite captives in Babylon to rebuild the city of Jerusalem ending in about 33 A.D. when Jesus was cut off ..... there is one week [7years] that has never taken place .... but it is coming and will be fullfilled just as the prophetic scriptures tell .... there are many visions of the Bible prophets that view this end time drama including the Lord's own words in His discourse about the time of the end and His book of Revelation

The Bible does not say "weeks of years"! It just says weeks!

You are adding to the Word of God!

The Bible does not use the word "heptad" nor is there a "heptad" concept in the Bible.

It appears this theory is no better than the year/day nonsense!

[ClubV12]

Ellen White did verify the day/year principle, miz3. She was just another voice, all though divinely inspired, that upheld this fundamental principle.

Of course if you reject Ellen White's counsel on this, there is sufficient evidence and biblical support to determine the day/year principle is correct anyway.

[hch]

You make the prophetic time periods 10 times more complicated then they really are!

It's clear that you see some time periods as day for a year (70 weeks) and then others as literal (42 months). There is no prophetic rule that says you can do this, except for the ones you make up.

The time periods are either day for a year or literal, take your pick but don't mix and match.

You would make a good Adventist with all your creative day for a year tomfoolery.

[miz3]

Thus there is an instance where Daniel 8:14 is literal time in the first (local) application and a day for a year in a secondary 2300-year application.

The local application is fine!

But for you to make a "secondary application" is a tortured logic. Besides the Daniel passage never ever implies that there is a "secondary app" existent!

Secondary apps are the result of one's imagination.

As to Ezekiel 4:6 that was a local app only! The context of the passage does not allow you make a broad sweeping Principle out it. Again this is tortured logic in order to stretch the actual facts.

Does not cut it!

[miz3]

Ellen White did verify the day/year principle, miz3. She was just another voice, all though divinely inspired, that upheld this fundamental principle.

Of course if you reject Ellen White's counsel on this, there is sufficient evidence and biblical support to determine the day/year principle is correct anyway.

Ellen White may indeed have endorsed the year/day thing. However, the Bible does not!

You and Ellen White are entitled to your opinions on this topic. Ellen White was merely reflecting the prevailing opinions of her day and her group set!

[John317]

...Ellen White may indeed have endorsed the year/day thing. However, the Bible does not!

See Numbers 14: 34 and Ezekiel 4: 6.

How long a period is the 2300 days [evening-mornings]?

How long is the time given in Daniel 7: 25

and in the following:

Daniel 12: 7

Revelation 11: 2

Revelation 11: 3

Revelation 12: 6

Revelation 12: 14

Revelation 13: 5

[miz3]

See Numbers 14: 34 and Ezekiel 4: 6.

John317 these two passages from the Bible are about specific instances. There is nothing in these passages in regard to fact or context that would lead a person to make this a blanket Principle to applied in all "prophetic places". These two passages are not laying down a broad principle, they are using the year/day only in that specific instance.

This is nothing more than flailing at the wind.

There is also nothing in Daniel and Revelation either by fact, by inference, or by context that would cause one to use the year/day method.

This is just silliness!

[John317]

Besides the Daniel passage never ever implies that there is a "secondary app" existent!

It was never fulfilled in a "local" application. That period doesn't fit anything that happened at the time of Antiochus IV.

The prophecy says that this period of time "refers to the time of the end." Daniel 7: 17. 2300 literal days-- or about 6 1/2 years-- doesn't come close to the time of the end.

Verse 19 says that it refers to "what shall happen in the latter time of the indignation; for at the appointed time the end shall be."

The period of time was such a long time that Daniel fainted and was sick, astonished at the vision.

All of this proves without question that the 2300 evening-mornings are not literal days. 2300 literal days only amounts to less than 6 1/2 years; and if we say it is 1150 literal days, it amounts to 3 years and 70 days.

Those are periods of time that are not fulfilled by anything in history, if we are looking for something that Antiochus IV did. The temple in Jerusalem was profaned Chislev 15, 168 BC, and it was cleansed Dec. 25 [Chislev 25], 165 BC. So the desecration lasted 3 years and 10 days. It is about two months short of being the fulfillment of the prophecy.

There are many other reasons that Antiochus IV cannot be the fulfillment of the prophecy concerning the little horn.

[Truth Files]

Miz3 said:

The Bible does not say "weeks of years"! It just says weeks!

>But, one must understand this by study [a good concordance of the verse you give will tell you what the "heptad" is

Lexicon Results Strong's H7620 - shabuwa` שָׁבוּעַ

Transliteration

shabuwa`

Pronunciation

shä·vü'·ah (Key)

Part of Speech

masculine noun

Root Word (Etymology)

Properly, pass part of שָׁבַע (H7650) as a denom. of שֶׁבַע (H7651)

TWOT Reference

2318d

Outline of Biblical Usage 1) seven, period of seven (days or years), heptad, week

1) period of seven days, a week

2) Feast of Weeks

3) heptad, seven (of years)

>And the proof of this measurement of time can be calculated when rendered properly

>483 prophetic years actually transpired from 445 B.C. [the returning date of the Israelite captives from the Babylonian captivity to the Lord's cutting off in 33 A.D. [study the book of Nehemiah for the Biblical account of the return]

>This calculation proves the bible's accuracy and the validity of the component of the "heptad" [7 360 day years] used to make the calculation

No other time value for "week" makes any sense with respect to the historical record

>You can believe this .... or not .... your choice

[ClubV12]

"No other time value for "week" makes any sense with respect to the historical record."

Miller, Snow and a host of others would beg to differ on that point Stephen.