shelly Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 When you are not living a traditional SDA lifestyle, how do you identify yourself to others when talking about your Christian walk? Is it fair use the name of a group that you are not representing to the best of your ability? But on the other hand, if you are still atending a SDA church and are still on the membership roster how can you not identify with the group that you associate with? I am struggling with this issue right now. I am not out of the SDA church but their are certain behaviors and life choices I am making that do not fall in line with the church.
Members phkrause Posted July 29, 2011 Members Posted July 29, 2011 When you are not living a traditional SDA lifestyle, how do you identify yourself to others when talking about your Christian walk? Is it fair use the name of a group that you are not representing to the best of your ability? But on the other hand, if you are still atending a SDA church and are still on the membership roster how can you not identify with the group that you associate with? I am struggling with this issue right now. I am not out of the SDA church but their are certain behaviors and life choices I am making that do not fall in line with the church. As an SDA, no matter what your still an Adventist. Many other Christians from other denominations who don't live up to there religion are still Baptist, Methodist, etc. This also includes RCs. I would say what your thinking is just because you are not living up to a certain standard that you can't say that you are this or that. I believe we are all at different places in our Christian experience with our Lord and Savior. So don't feel that your not living up to God's expectations. phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
teresaq Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 Wow! Great post, and points, Shelly! That has recently occurred to me also. It fits right up there with calling oneself a Christian, since "Christian" implies that we are representing Christ-which I can count on one hand, maybe two, those that do. Some of us are downright....While most of us are a combination of victory and still haven't gotten the victory, commonly known as struggling. How about, I was born into the church but do not adequately represent what it stands for? facebook. /teresa.quintero.790
ClubV12 Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 I don't know about the SDA part of the question, but I can offer my take on the christian part. When I was a young man I considered myself a christian. But at some point I made a decision to go the way of the world. My life and lifestyle still were guided by the principles of christianity. But I never fooled myself into thinking a I was a christian, I believed in God, and trembled because I knew I was lost. Occasionally I would offer someone advice based on christian principle and they would ask, "Are you a christian?" "No", I would answer, and explain that I didn't call myself that because my life was not worthy of that standard. Much of society accepts the name christian like they accept the name Republican or Democrat or Independant, just another title. When you do that you lower the standard to the very dust. My advice is "get it or get out". Perhaps you can call yourself a christian, a more generic term than Adventist and readily accepted by society. But please, do consider the standards of what it means to be an Adventist before using that term. I'm sorry that sounds harsh, but I do believe any group has certain standards that should be applied to their position and it's name should be gaurded.
shelly Posted July 29, 2011 Author Posted July 29, 2011 ClubV12, no one is "worthy" of calling themselves a Christian. The title of Christian merley expresses our intentions rather than the reality of who and what we are. If we could live up to the title of all that Christianity entails we wouldn't need the sacrifice of Jesus. With that said, I consider myself a Christian first and foremost. Being a SDA is merely how I have been called to express my Chrisitanity. I am dealing with how to respond to what type of Christian I am. I am careful to explain that my actions do not always represent the church. I feel conflicted-sometimes I feel that saying I am SDA is enough but then sometimes I feel a need to distance my actions from the the requirements of the church.
ClubV12 Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 Shelly, you've taken a very important step in recognizing where your at in life and considering your position. Praise God for that! To thine own self be true, there is no point in "hiding" from yourself. Regardless of where you find yourself, know this. Accept by faith the fact that Jesus not only loves you He stands ready to defend you before the throne of God. To apply His merits, His life to cover yours. You can have His righteouness today, right now, simply ask Him for it! Don't worry at this time what you should or shouldn't be doing. Don't worry about whether your worthy or not. Don't worry about the salvation issue. Just ask and thank Him for His righteouness He freely offers on your behalf at this moment, any moment in time. His love, His willingness to provide for you is your only hope of living a christian life. When it all seems impossible and you can barely whisper a prayer, He hears the longing of your heart. Give it to Him and let Him work His will in you. It is ONLY through experiencing and accepting His love that we have a "prayer" of living a christian life.
Haldog Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 "For when one says, "I am of Paul" and another, "I am of Apollos," Are you not carnal?" "So then neither he who plants is anything nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase" I am of Jesus Christ and no other. "You may not agree with everyone. But if you are an honest man, when someone says something you disagree with it’ll drive you to the Word. If you find out that you were wrong and change your thinking then you are the better for it. If you go to the Word and find out that you were right then you have been strengthened. But either way always go to the Word!!” Billye Brim
Musicman1228 Posted July 30, 2011 Posted July 30, 2011 Shelly, I do understand your dilemma, for I have been there. It goes even deeper with me than it does for most since I have come to the unusual conclusion that if you are an SDA you cannot actually call yourself a Christian. That is because the basic beliefs of a Christian and an SDA are not compatible. SDA's believe that the 10 Commandments are the Covenant, and that it is critical to keep them. Christians do not. SDA's believe that salvation comes from first being justified through baptism where you confess your sins to God and He cleanses you, and then you are sanctified through the process of sanctification, wherein you immerse yourself in words of Jesus such that you replace the lie (sin) in your life with the truth from His words, and thus become righteous. SDA church is the ONLY church that teaches this as part of the salvation process. As a part of this process SDA's keep and honor the 4th Commandment as central to salvation. It is so important that no SDA would ever consider violating the 4th Commandment by worshiping on any other day of the week. Christians worship on Sunday, because they believe that Jesus was resurrected on Sunday. There are MANY other differences. I have even gone so far as to personally call myself a 'follower of Jesus Christ' rather than a Christian. And because the SDA church has gone so far toward becoming just like the churches of the world out of which the Adventists of the mid 1800's came I am almost, but not quite, not even calling myself an SDA. But yes, I am an SDA because I love my church and what it originally stood for, and I long for the time which is coming soon when it will get back to that ideal. Yet first and foremost I am a follower and bondservant of Jesus Christ and Him alone; I serve no other master. So hang in there, Shelly, and you will figure out (with the help of the Holy Spirit) where you personally fit in the scheme of things. And when you do you will honor God with your choice.
Guest Posted July 30, 2011 Posted July 30, 2011 SDA's believe that the 10 Commandments are the Covenant, and that it is critical to keep them. Christians do not. What makes you think that? And, keep in mind that just because you can think it, doesn't make it true. Your labeling method might not be God's labeling method.
Musicman1228 Posted July 30, 2011 Posted July 30, 2011 Originally Posted By: Musicman1228 SDA's believe that the 10 Commandments are the Covenant, and that it is critical to keep them. Christians do not. What makes you think that? And, keep in mind that just because you can think it, doesn't make it true. Your labeling method might not be God's labeling method. The founders of the SDA denomination firmly believed in the importance of the 10 Commandments in the process of sanctification, especially with regard to the 4th Commandment. This is also an important part of the 28 fundamentals of the church.
ClubV12 Posted July 30, 2011 Posted July 30, 2011 The comment was referring to "christians" as keeping the commandments. I think they are, to the best of their ability in most cases. Some, who actually accept the idea of the Sabbath brush it off as a non-reguirement, but accept the basic premise of the ten commandments. Many groups have their own "laws", they are not "christians". Most christians have not yet been brought to the point of decision on this topic of the law. Others, in their folly, reject the idea that God means what He says, that He didn't really care whether we kept the law or not. God DOES mean what He says. The Sabbath is where Seventh-day Adventist's come in. There is no doubt the 10 commandments illustrate the very character of God and as such are applicable for all time, including the Sabbath of course. Indeed they are a major part of the sanctification process, we are sanctified through the law, NOT saved by it!!! BIG difference. Righteousness is only achieved by accepting Christs merits, not our own. We have nothing to offer in the form of works that can even begin to be worthy of salvation. Righteousness by faith is a constant act, minute by minute, day by day, it will never end. It is the ONLY way one is drawn to Christ, through love and a knowledge of acceptance AND salvation in that moment. When we really understand Christs sacrafice that He may offer us this gift, free and clear, we, like David, will proclaim: "Oh how I love thy law." It is not a burden, it is a way of life, it is Gods character, written in our language, words that we can understand. It is not left to us to decide which one of the ten we will accept or reject, to pick and chose from. They are written in stone, they have always existed, they will always be, it is the very picture of God. The law IS God defined. Accept His mercy, His gift, He will strengthen your will, your resolve, He will change your life, through love, if you let Him.
miz3 Posted July 30, 2011 Posted July 30, 2011 I don't know about the SDA part of the question, but I can offer my take on the christian part. When I was a young man I considered myself a christian. But at some point I made a decision to go the way of the world. My life and lifestyle still were guided by the principles of christianity. But I never fooled myself into thinking a I was a christian, I believed in God, and trembled because I knew I was lost. Occasionally I would offer someone advice based on christian principle and they would ask, "Are you a christian?" "No", I would answer, and explain that I didn't call myself that because my life was not worthy of that standard. Much of society accepts the name christian like they accept the name Republican or Democrat or Independant, just another title. When you do that you lower the standard to the very dust. My advice is "get it or get out". Perhaps you can call yourself a christian, a more generic term than Adventist and readily accepted by society. But please, do consider the standards of what it means to be an Adventist before using that term. I'm sorry that sounds harsh, but I do believe any group has certain standards that should be applied to their position and it's name should be gaurded. SDA don't enforce their own stated "standards". If they did then most people who are now on the Church Books would be kicked out. Only about 45% if that pay an honest tithe! It may now be down into the thirties or lower? [Words here deleted by the moderator.]
ClubV12 Posted July 30, 2011 Posted July 30, 2011 Keep your eyes focused on Jesus, not on people. Don't compare your standards to them, compare them to the life Jesus would have you live. The church, as broken as it may appear to be, is the supreme object of Christs love, it will go through to the end.
teresaq Posted July 30, 2011 Posted July 30, 2011 I feel sorry for miz3 ! If he was born and raised in the SDA church I understand him, I believe. We all react differently to dysfunction be it in the home or the church. It is probably true of all churches, but I have only known the SDA church. facebook. /teresa.quintero.790
Guest Posted July 30, 2011 Posted July 30, 2011 The founders of the SDA denomination firmly believed in the importance of the 10 Commandments in the process of sanctification, especially with regard to the 4th Commandment. This is also an important part of the 28 fundamentals of the church. I'm talking about you dumping everyone who calls themselves a Christian into a little category of your own making. Not the denomination! You have no more way of knowing whether they are opposed to keeping the commandments, then you do of knowing whether I keep the commandmants. So to say that anyone who calls themselves Christians, are somehow opposed to God and do not keep the commandments is absurd! Like most of your "so called" doctrine, you make it up as you go along. Your silly methods of labeling people are not God's methods. How can someone who purports to know SO much, actually know SO little? BTW, all SDA's call themselves Christians. You are the only one I've ever seen who says they are not. I was trying to find out what in the world you base this absurd statement on, when I said: "why do you think this?" but you didn't even understand the question. Whether someone calls themselves Christian or not, does NOT inform you of what they do in their private lives. Like you, they may not even know what the word really means.
ClubV12 Posted July 30, 2011 Posted July 30, 2011 Oh it's true in all churches alright!! My former mentor was a Godly Baptist lady. She warned me about the "politics" in the church and that I needed to keep my eyes on Jesus. It's a universal truth through out the world. "People" will ALWAYS fail you. Family, friends, church folk is where you can expect your greatest trials to come from. They know your weakness, where your buttons are. Looking to them is what leads one to become dysfunctional. Before God we stand alone, some with Christ as their advocate. Others making their case based on "everybody" is doing it, in the end, we have no excuse for our decisions.
Dr. Waite Posted July 30, 2011 Posted July 30, 2011 If I adhere to the following: A DECLARATION OF THE FUNDAMENTAL PRINCIPLES TAUGHT AND PRACTICED ——— BY ——— THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTISTS published in 1872 and in particular "That the Holy Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments, were given by inspiration of God, contain a full revelation of his will to man, and are the only infallible rule of faith and practice" and not in the new 28 fundamental beliefs which removed the phrase "the only infallible rule of faith and practice" can I still call myself a seventh-day adventist? grw
Moderators John317 Posted July 30, 2011 Moderators Posted July 30, 2011 SDA's believe that the 10 Commandments are the Covenant, and that it is critical to keep them. Christians do not. SDA's believe that salvation comes from first being justified through baptism Are you sure about this-- that SDAs believe the Covenant is the Ten Commandments and that people are justified throught baptism? John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted July 30, 2011 Moderators Posted July 30, 2011 ...The founders of the SDA denomination firmly believed in the importance of the 10 Commandments in the process of sanctification, especially with regard to the 4th Commandment. This is also an important part of the 28 fundamentals of the church. Yes, they did firmly believe it's important to keep the 10 Commandments, but nowhere did they ever claim that the 10 Commandments were the Covenant. The kind of sanctification you're talking about here is that of conforming to the will of God, that is, conforming to God's law. Is this what you're saying? John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted July 30, 2011 Moderators Posted July 30, 2011 If you believe in the 1872 Fundamental Principles but not in the Fundamental Beliefs that the SDA Church believes today, I would think you are still an SDA. My question, though, would be why don't you believe the FB 28? The exact phrase, "the only infallible rule of faith and practice," may not be in the FB, but the SDA church does believe it. We don't believe the writings of Ellen White are an "infallible rule of faith and practice." That phrase only describes the Bible. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
miz3 Posted July 30, 2011 Posted July 30, 2011 If you believe in the 1872 Fundamental Principles but not in the Fundamental Beliefs that the SDA Church believes today, I would think you are still an SDA. My question, though, would be why don't you believe the FB 28? The exact phrase, "the only infallible rule of faith and practice," may not be in the FB, but the SDA church does believe it. We don't believe the writings of Ellen White are an "infallible rule of faith and practice." That phrase only describes the Bible. Does that mean you believe Ellen White was "fallible" in some things she wrote? Could you cite those parts of Ellen White that you think are "fallible"! Either Ellen White is "fallible" or she is "infallible". Which is it?
Moderators John317 Posted July 30, 2011 Moderators Posted July 30, 2011 Ellen White wrote: God help you, my dear nephew, to make deep and thorough work, that you may have a living connection with God, and then you can have a safe connection with men who are only fallible like yourself. In regard to infallibility, I never claimed it; God alone is infallible. His word is true, and in him is no variableness, or shadow of turning. {1888 1393.2} Check out 1 Selected Messages 15-58. She writes there about the relationship between her writings and the Bible. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Dr. Waite Posted July 30, 2011 Posted July 30, 2011 If you believe in the 1872 Fundamental Principles but not in the Fundamental Beliefs that the SDA Church believes today, I would think you are still an SDA. My question, though, would be why don't you believe the FB 28? The exact phrase, "the only infallible rule of faith and practice," may not be in the FB, but the SDA church does believe it. We don't believe the writings of Ellen White are an "infallible rule of faith and practice." That phrase only describes the Bible. If they believe this, why did the persons who wrote the 28 fundamental beliefs leave this phrase out? Ellen White endorsed the 1872 Fundamental Principles. grw
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