shelly Posted August 4, 2011 Author Posted August 4, 2011 Certainly God can do anything He wants. HOW He does what He does often remains a mystery to us. "God can and does speak to us through friends, family, pastors, religous reading material and shows, ect. But it is dangerous to assume that God is limited to the avenues that we are most familiar with. God can do anything. Just because it is useful to have others support and encourage our spiritual journey does not mean God is unable to teach someone the truth without outside help!" Now thats a more balanced approach on how the Holy Spirit works. I would not expect any new light or new undertanding until you have dealt with the old light that has already been presented to you. Clearly, you have some serious issues with the SDA church doctrine. After 20 years, these should have been resolved a long time ago. It concerns me that at this stage you are ready to now find those answers independant of the counsel of the church or the Spirit of Prophecy, or more accurately put would be, "in spite" of the counsel of the church and the Spirit of Prophecy. I don't see the Holy Spirit leading you in this way. The same can be said to you. You have already admitted that you are new to the SDA faith. It is possible that I have a clearer understanding of how the Holy Spirit works than you do. You feel the need to limit how he works in order to fit your understanding and your belief system. I understand that the Holy Spirit is God, and is capable of moving in any way that he sees fit to reach a soul. Besides, EGW is not SDA doctrine. If you think it is you confused about what our church actually stands for.
shelly Posted August 4, 2011 Author Posted August 4, 2011 Shelly, I have a question for you. When you are out in the street, and you bump into a non-Adventist whom you are trying to show your faith, and assuming that person puts up a wall to your beliefs and says "oh, you're affiliated with that Church that believes in Ellen White--a false prophet". At that point, do you defend her? Or do you agree with the person and also put her down? Do you say anything good about her? Or do you just go right along and say "yeah, you're right, I too am trying to convince my Church that this woman is whacko" If the latter is true, I find it difficult how on earth you will ever be able to persuade that non-Adventist over to your "in-between-somewhere-in-the-middle-Adventist" views. He'll just look at you in confusion and will end up concluding that you seem lost in where you stand, and will wonder why you don't just disconnect yourself completely. Honestly, I don't see how the work could ever be finished with your mindset. It's too "mixed up" and "confusing", and not straightforward to new seekers for truth. I have never called EGW a false prophet-go back and re-read my posts. I have said that I believe that the church has mixed up alot of opinion pieces with her prophecies. Big difference! I do not readily tell individuals that I am a SDA-hence my initial question in this post. I when pressed I usually say that I was raised SDA. I do not feel the need to defend Sister White-God can do that on his own. I also do not feel the need to defend the bible, my Pastor,ect. What I will do is correct errors in perception. If someone says we worship EGW I would tell them no and then go on to explain that her writings are there for guidence. I then explain that that if any of her writings cannot be backed up by the bible that we should disguard them. I do not reveal our dirty little secret that we are not allowed to decide that her writings do not stand up to the bible or that if we do we are told that we do not understand her correctly. To me, that is family business. Right now I am not actively trying to recruit individuals into the SDA church. That is not what I am called to do right now. It is a shame that someone who believes that God is able to lead them through a personal relationship and has a close enough relationship with God to recognize his voice is the one confused and mixed up. But hey, we are all entiled to our opinions because I can honestly say I think your more confused than I am.
ClubV12 Posted August 4, 2011 Posted August 4, 2011 We are ALL working for one or the other every moment of our life. That decision is constantly being made, regardless of where we stood a moment ago or what we call ourselves today.
Lysimachus Posted August 4, 2011 Posted August 4, 2011 I have never called EGW a false prophet-go back and re-read my posts. I have said that I believe that the church has mixed up alot of opinion pieces with her prophecies. Big difference! I do not readily tell individuals that I am a SDA-hence my initial question in this post. I when pressed I usually say that I was raised SDA. I do not feel the need to defend Sister White-God can do that on his own. I also do not feel the need to defend the bible, my Pastor,ect. What I will do is correct errors in perception. If someone says we worship EGW I would tell them no and then go on to explain that her writings are there for guidence. I then explain that that if any of her writings cannot be backed up by the bible that we should disguard them. I do not reveal our dirty little secret that we are not allowed to decide that her writings do not stand up to the bible or that if we do we are told that we do not understand her correctly. To me, that is family business. Right now I am not actively trying to recruit individuals into the SDA church. That is not what I am called to do right now. It is a shame that someone who believes that God is able to lead them through a personal relationship and has a close enough relationship with God to recognize his voice is the one confused and mixed up. But hey, we are all entiled to our opinions because I can honestly say I think your more confused than I am. If you think that I just go around trying to "recruit" people into the SDA Church, you're definitely wrong on that one. I present only the truth, and leave the rest up to God. What's important to me is that they accept the truth from their hearts. My primary concern is that their names are written in the books of heaven. Having our names on earthly books will not determine our salvation. However, from your above paragraph, it almost sounds to me as if you are saying that Ellen White is "half inspired". Now talk about confusion. You say: "I then explain that that if any of her writings cannot be backed up by the bible that we should disguard them." Wouldn't that make her a false prophet? Just one little drop of poison spoils the whole broth. It's difficult for me to wrap my brain how someone inspired by God to guide the Church can have so many errors in her writings. This would make her a false prophet. Yes, I will say it again: Your position is very confusing. ~Lysimachus (Marcos S.) Author of article, Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation (see attachment for article) Currently writing a book, Vindicating the Historical School of Prophetic Interpretation Founder of the largest and fastest SDA Apologetics Group on Facebook, Seventh-Day Adventism - Defending the Pillars of the Faith Writer and apologetics contributor at Adventist Defense League Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation.pdf
ClubV12 Posted August 4, 2011 Posted August 4, 2011 ,,,and here we are, miz3 hijacks yet another thread and the conversation is turned back to his one and only agenda, anti SDA doctrine.
Lysimachus Posted August 4, 2011 Posted August 4, 2011 ,,,and here we are, miz3 hijacks yet another thread and the conversation is turned back to his one and only agenda, anti SDA doctrine. The SDA-bashing is getting worse by the day too. Ellen White says to gather warmth from the coldness of others. I take it as a sign that we are on the right side. So continue to hang on my friend. Just look at youtube for example. All you have to do is type the name Adventist, and you will get some nucklehead like "KingdoMentality" on youtube, a black man who plays rap music and makes fun of Seventh-Day Adventists, and sings "Jesus is the only way". When I see miz3's posts, I picture him like this guy here: http://youtu.be/9ODTpERH0-E That is the face of SDA-Bashers. Talk about repugnant. Miz3 is cut from the same cloth. ~Lysimachus (Marcos S.) Author of article, Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation (see attachment for article) Currently writing a book, Vindicating the Historical School of Prophetic Interpretation Founder of the largest and fastest SDA Apologetics Group on Facebook, Seventh-Day Adventism - Defending the Pillars of the Faith Writer and apologetics contributor at Adventist Defense League Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation.pdf
shelly Posted August 4, 2011 Author Posted August 4, 2011 ,,,and here we are, miz3 hijacks yet another thread and the conversation is turned back to his one and only agenda, anti SDA doctrine. No more than you or Lyismachus. You just didn't notice because the other hijacking party was agreeing with you. This thread was never supposed to be about EGW but it has become a thread for those who feel threatened that their might be those in the church that don't "believe" in EGW to attack those who have been honest with themselves and God. My spirtuality and relationship with God has been questioned all because I don't feel about EGW the way you think I should. And you asked my why I didn't speak to someone in the church about this. After your reaction I now know that I can never speak of this in a "church" foremat. If anything this thread has confirmed to me what I have known all along. Some SDAs worship EGW. They are ready to fight to the death and assasinate people's character over EGW. They are appalled that someone could actually think that Christ is their all. They will limint the power of God so that EGW can retain her honored place in their heart. I'm sorry, that is called idolatry. And the sad thing is, I think that their idol would rebuke them for thier behavior. There is no one above God. There is no other name by which men can be saved but Christ. Until you understand that God is our all you will continue to worship the one in posession of the spiritual gift instead of the Creator. I'm done.
Lysimachus Posted August 4, 2011 Posted August 4, 2011 I realize shelly that you are of a somewhat different persuasion here, but my reaction is not so much to the things you have posted, but the continual "trend"...the constant weaving of negative threads that I see are so pervasive in this forum, that so many of you seem inclined toward. Keep in mind that when I am reaching out, the Bible is my only tool in presenting doctrine. But I believe that to put Ellen White where you have placed her is essentially to deny the very purpose of the gift of prophecy---"That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive", and "For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ", and so "that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ." It seems to me that Paul is placing the gift of prophecy as "essential" to being blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. Why do we as Adventists have to be arguing about this? Why can't we just accept that we need to HEED the counsels given to us from her? Has it occurred to us that if we do heed them, we will be protected from every wind of doctrine flying to and fro? It would seem so to me. We are not unbelievers. We are Seventh-Day Adventists. We can use Ellen White to help one another. Not to bash each other over the head, but in a sincere and caring manner, to help show each other where we feel each other is erring! To encourage one another! To strengthen one another's faith! ~Lysimachus (Marcos S.) Author of article, Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation (see attachment for article) Currently writing a book, Vindicating the Historical School of Prophetic Interpretation Founder of the largest and fastest SDA Apologetics Group on Facebook, Seventh-Day Adventism - Defending the Pillars of the Faith Writer and apologetics contributor at Adventist Defense League Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation.pdf
miz3 Posted August 4, 2011 Posted August 4, 2011 The parable of the ten virgins proves you wrong! What did Jesus Christ say was the reason the "foolish virgins" lost out and were not saved? I will quote it to you! "But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet. And the door was shut. 11 “Later the others also came. ‘Sir! Sir!’ they said. ‘Open the door for us!’ 12 “But he replied, ‘I tell you the truth, I don’t know you.’ 13 “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour." Matthew 25:10-13. What did the Bridegroom (Jesus Christ) say, "I don't know you"! The Bridegroom didn't say you missed the mark of the beast, the antichrist, the state of the dead, the sanctuary, the 2300 days, the 70 weeks, the SDA version of hell fire, the sabbath, 1844, etc.
Lysimachus Posted August 4, 2011 Posted August 4, 2011 I would also like to add that if we accept Jesus who is the Truth, the Way, and the Life, we will accept ALL the truth that comes WITH Jesus! If we accept error, or reject truth, we cannot be sanctified by the truth. Error DOES NOT SANCTIFY! And Paul says that without sanctification, no one can see the Lord (Heb 12:14) Every word in the Bible, including Daniel 8:14, Daniel 7:25, and Revelation 13:5, is the Words of Jesus, and it is TRUTH. And we are told to UNDERSTAND IT. When we purposely reject understanding truth and receiving knowledge, we only show where our heart is truly at, and we cannot be sanctified it. ~Lysimachus (Marcos S.) Author of article, Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation (see attachment for article) Currently writing a book, Vindicating the Historical School of Prophetic Interpretation Founder of the largest and fastest SDA Apologetics Group on Facebook, Seventh-Day Adventism - Defending the Pillars of the Faith Writer and apologetics contributor at Adventist Defense League Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation.pdf
miz3 Posted August 5, 2011 Posted August 5, 2011 I would also like to add that if we accept Jesus who is the Truth, the Way, and the Life, we will accept ALL the truth that comes WITH Jesus! If we accept error, or reject truth, we cannot be sanctified by the truth. Error DOES NOT SANCTIFY! And Paul says that without sanctification, no one can see the Lord (Heb 12:14) Every word in the Bible, including Daniel 8:14, Daniel 7:25, and Revelation 13:5, is the Words of Jesus, and it is TRUTH. And we are told to UNDERSTAND IT. When we purposely reject understanding truth and receiving knowledge, we only show where our heart is truly at, and we cannot be sanctified it. This does not mean accepting your human made theology on Daniel and Revelation!
Lysimachus Posted August 5, 2011 Posted August 5, 2011 Just remember what I told you miz3!! All these words will come back to haunt you when that day of reconning comes if you do not change! Remember what you said! That it the 5 foolish virgins didn't need to know about the Sabbath!!! Yet Psalms 19:7 says "The law of the LORD is perfect, CONVERTING THE SOUL: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple." Jesus IS a walking living manifestation of the LAW. It is a transcript of His character! To behold Jesus is to BEHOLD the Law of God. When you WILLFULLY reject the Sabbath, you WILL be LOST. No IFS, no ANDS, and NO BUTS ABOUT IT! PERIOD. 2 Timothy says .. "Study to show thyself APPROVED unto God." (2 Timothy 2:15) If you do not believe that studying the 2300 days, or the 1260, or God's Law, or ANY of the prophecies, how can you honestly and in good conscience say you have been APPROVED by God? You CAN'T. You've been caught with your pants down miz3. I think it's time for you to make a major decision in your life, or else you're better off leaving this forum. Satan is so delighted with the subtle deceptions that you have cherished in your heart. They are idols in your soul that must be RIPPED out by the sanctifying truth of the Gospel. ~Lysimachus (Marcos S.) Author of article, Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation (see attachment for article) Currently writing a book, Vindicating the Historical School of Prophetic Interpretation Founder of the largest and fastest SDA Apologetics Group on Facebook, Seventh-Day Adventism - Defending the Pillars of the Faith Writer and apologetics contributor at Adventist Defense League Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation.pdf
ClubV12 Posted August 5, 2011 Posted August 5, 2011 Well teresaq(sda), ... you shouldn't feel to bad about Shelly and all that. After all your very strong counsel was that she didn't need any, from anybody, not the church, not the Pastor, not Ellen White, not this web site. Yessir,,, all she needs is the bible and the bible alone. Your partner miz3, approves that message. Next time, just cut to the chase and tell them flat out, they should leave whatever church their in, they got everything they need in the book.
shelly Posted August 5, 2011 Author Posted August 5, 2011 I have just asked the moderator to close this thread. If you would like to continue this discussion it may be best to start a new thread.
Lysimachus Posted August 5, 2011 Posted August 5, 2011 I would say that was a bright idea Shelly. Thanks. Yes, I do need a rest, lol. ~Lysimachus (Marcos S.) Author of article, Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation (see attachment for article) Currently writing a book, Vindicating the Historical School of Prophetic Interpretation Founder of the largest and fastest SDA Apologetics Group on Facebook, Seventh-Day Adventism - Defending the Pillars of the Faith Writer and apologetics contributor at Adventist Defense League Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation.pdf
ClubV12 Posted August 5, 2011 Posted August 5, 2011 Uh, well, actually, that Sabbath thing, yeah, thats pretty significant. It is a life and death decision for those who have recieved the light on it, and more. Like the ten commandments, and yet still more! Saved by grace is certainly true, righteousness by faith! But don't underestimate our responsibility to the sanctification process. Don't loose your balance between justification and sanctification. We can never do enough to warrant salvation, but we have an obligation to let God work within us, to give Him our will, to follow Him, to do the very best we can with what He has given us. It was just one small bite, from that apple, a simple thing, sin with a small "s". But it was enough to bring death to the planet. Nothing has changed, the law still applies. Can we keep it? Certainly! Through the grace and power of Jesus Christ.
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