ClubV12 Posted July 31, 2011 Posted July 31, 2011 Of course we are ladodicea! The question is, what are "we" going to do about it? I'm working out my own salvation, with fear and trembling, definitely concerned I myself may be laodicea. My earnest prayer, often, is that God will not allow me to slip into a delusion as to my true condition.
miz3 Posted July 31, 2011 Posted July 31, 2011 Of course we are ladodicea! The question is, what are "we" going to do about it? I'm working out my own salvation, with fear and trembling, definitely concerned I myself may be laodicea. My earnest prayer, often, is that God will not allow me to slip into a delusion as to my true condition. You are so busy going after people like "Shelly" with your admitted "harsh counsel" telling them to leave the Church that you fail to address the "Laodicea" that exists in your own "Church House". You admit that the SDA Church is Laodicea and as such is "lukewarm". Yet you give "harsh counsel" to Shelly and do not address the problems all around you in the SDA Church! Instead when those who try and point out the sins of SDA lukewarmness you call them "heretics" and "trouble makers" and you desire to silence their voice when all these ones want is to make the SDA Church accountable to God and to God's Truth!
shelly Posted July 31, 2011 Author Posted July 31, 2011 {Of course we need the Holy Spirit, we also need to know HOW the Holy Spirit works! It is rare that He speaks to us personally in the revelation of what we are to do, or be, or believe. The Spirit gives direction to the church, to and through His messenger(s). These sources should not be easily dimissed. In a multitude of counselers there is safety.
miz3 Posted July 31, 2011 Posted July 31, 2011 [Of course we need the Holy Spirit, we also need to know HOW the Holy Spirit works! It is rare that He speaks to us personally in the revelation of what we are to do, or be, or believe. The Spirit gives direction to the church, to and through His messenger(s). These sources should not be easily dimissed. In a multitude of counselers there is safety.
teresaq Posted July 31, 2011 Posted July 31, 2011 Originally Posted By: Shelly I would submit that the Holy Spirit speaks to us daily, hourly, minute upon minute. It is that we fail to recognize his voice that leads us to believe that he is silent. I am sorry Shelly, but I cannot help it! MEGA DITTOS AGAIN! And thank God! Where would I be without it. There are times we need to heed the counsel of our fellowmen, but we also need to remember that got paul killed before his time. facebook. /teresa.quintero.790
teresaq Posted July 31, 2011 Posted July 31, 2011 Thank you ClubV12. I sincerely appreciate that. I hope that we can work out any other difficulties we may be having. I am more in agreement with you than you may realize. I just choose to go about dealing with them differently-some of the time. Much of the time I am just like you, but trying not to be. Please don't be insulted by that. I think I do understand where teresaq is coming from, "wild interpretation" of Ellen White writings. The same could be said for any of her books, including and especially the Testimonies. Add to that the bible itself! ... facebook. /teresa.quintero.790
ClubV12 Posted July 31, 2011 Posted July 31, 2011 Shelly says, "I would submit that the Holy Spirit speaks to us daily, hourly, minute upon minute. It is that we fail to recognize his voice that leads us to believe that he is silent." Much truth there Shelly. The flip side of that is being deluded to the point where you sincerely believe your being led by the Holy Spirit, and your not. Those who are deluded on this point sincerely believe they are correct, that they are doing the right thing, the moral thing, the ethical thing. They are sincerely and sadly mistaken. Tis far better to reject the Lord outright, to be cold, than to have one foot in the door and one foot out of the door of the church. Any church. A house divided cannot stand. There is a difference between considering your position carefully and "fighting against" the church. In considering your position the Holy Spirit will work through counselors as well as speaking directly to you, that is an important point. There are times, though rare, you might need to follow what you sincerely believe is the right course of action. Regardless of the counsel, as in moving to another state, or taking a job, or doing some missionary work. As it concerns the fundamental beliefs, this is not an option. If you chose to "go it alone" and disregard that counsel, you should leave the church and follow the counsel of the Lord in Revelation, get in or get out. Ellen White had no "clear light" on being asked to move to Australia, but she put her feelings aside and followed the advice of the counsel of the church. Another time, she was advised to NOT leave Battle Creek to journey to another church she felt the Lord was calling her to. She had clear light on that issue. So she left anyway and it became clear to the Battle Creek members they had made a mistake, for which they apologized. How will you know if you have clear light or are under a delusion? Again, as it regards the fundamental beliefs, there is clear light. You need to follow the counsel of the brethren. If your considering a move, or something of that nature, for whatever reason, you may have to follow your conscience. As it concerns the SDA church manual, disregarding the counsel of the Elders, being in direct opposition to it on important points (like doctrine), is cause for disfellowship.
Guest Posted July 31, 2011 Posted July 31, 2011 If one can only believe the eye witness' of Jesus, then... Wait a minute, sounds like someone's following Dr. Rich's delusion here! His constant mantra is "only the eye witness' of Jesus", which rules out about half or more of the new testament! Clearly, that is a seriously flawed theology. As it concerns SDA's, it starts with picking and choosing what parts of Sister Whites testimony they will or won't accept. Moves on to picking and choosing what parts of the bible to accept and ends in total rejection of all of the above. By the time you get to "phase two", rejection of parts of the bible, your so blind you will never see "phase three" coming. Rejection of all of the testimonies and their author, God. Make no mistake, it will surely follow as the sun rises and sets. You are exactly right. And Wayfinder, Musicman, and Dr. Rich, have been on that path for some time. They are 3 birds of one feather. The blind leading the blind. I love em anyway though.
ClubV12 Posted July 31, 2011 Posted July 31, 2011 Bear in mind, miz3 counsel is not from a Seventh-day Adventist. He does not accept the fundamental beliefs of the SDA church nor does he claim to be a member of that church. Just so you know...
teresaq Posted July 31, 2011 Posted July 31, 2011 Does that mean miz3 particular post to Shelly was wrong? Aside from that Richard has been around for quite some time now. :) facebook. /teresa.quintero.790
ClubV12 Posted July 31, 2011 Posted July 31, 2011 I don't know what "particular post" your referring to. This thread is about SDA beliefs, as such, it should be noted, miz3 does not speak for or believe in the SDA church. That doesn't mean all his counsel should be rejected, but it should be weighed with that knowledge in mind. Even Ballam was forced to speak good things toward Israel, while still plotting their doom! Consider the message as well as the messenger. Dr. Rich and many others DO claim to be SDA's, when in fact they are FAR from being SDA's in any regard! You gotta wonder, who is more dangerous? Those who claim to be SDA fighting against the church or those who make no claim and fight against it? Subtle stuff....
miz3 Posted July 31, 2011 Posted July 31, 2011 Originally Posted By: miz3 MEGA DITTOS AGAIN! Ditto head eh? Me too. Well at least we agree on that!
miz3 Posted July 31, 2011 Posted July 31, 2011 I don't know what "particular post" your referring to. This thread is about SDA beliefs, as such, it should be noted, miz3 does not speak for or believe in the SDA church. That doesn't mean all his counsel should be rejected, but it should be weighed with that knowledge in mind. Even Ballam was forced to speak good things toward Israel, while still plotting their doom! Consider the message as well as the messenger. Dr. Rich and many others DO claim to be SDA's, when in fact they are FAR from being SDA's in any regard! You gotta wonder, who is more dangerous? Those who claim to be SDA fighting against the church or those who make no claim and fight against it? Subtle stuff.... Sounds to me like you are confused, ClubV12. The fact is you are! You assume much about me and you really don't know. I only know that as for your Christianity I have felt only your hate and rejection. You have not made me feel welcome within your SDA circle! I have felt this same chill from others on this website as well. Yet when I read the website "welcome message", and I quote: "Welcome with open arms fellow believers who don’t see things the way you do. And don’t jump all over them every time they do or say something you don’t agree with – even when it seems that they are strong on opinions but weak in the faith department. Remember, they have their own history to deal with. Treat them gently." My experience here is that it has been "lip service" and not really what is practiced. From the moment I first came until now I have felt a very cold unChristlike, unChristian, chill that has made feel not only unwelcome but actually "hated"! Now maybe I am wrong about this but I can only tell you what I have felt. I have felt threatened with expulsion and censor of my words even though I have only spoken and written as I have seen others write on this website. That includes the pillars of this website. Again, I could be wrong, but my perception has been that only a select few have the freedom to say anything they wish but when those select few don't like something they lower the "boom" on the rest of us. Like I said that is my perception of things. Who knows I may get censored for this post!
ClubV12 Posted July 31, 2011 Posted July 31, 2011 I don't assume anything about you miz3, I just know the facts. You do not consider yourself a Seventh-day Adventist. You do not believe in the fundamental beliefs of Seventh-day Adventists. You call into question virtually every Ellen White quote posted. On THIS thread, because of the sensitive nature of the question(s) asked, as it concerns the SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST church, I think it is appropriate to make that clear to the OP.
miz3 Posted July 31, 2011 Posted July 31, 2011 I don't assume anything about you miz3, I just know the facts. You do not consider yourself a Seventh-day Adventist. You do not believe in the fundamental beliefs of Seventh-day Adventists. You call into question virtually every Ellen White quote posted. On THIS thread, because of the sensitive nature of the question(s) asked, as it concerns the SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST church, I think it is appropriate to make that clear to the OP. Can you show me where I said I was or was not a SDA? Can you show me where I said I do not believe or I so believe in the 28 Fundamentals? You don't have a clue one way or the other! You are clearly making judgments about people you don't know anything about! Is this typical of those in the SDA Church?
ClubV12 Posted July 31, 2011 Posted July 31, 2011 Why don't state your position clearly right now miz3? Do you accept the fundamental beliefs of the SDA church? Are you an SDA church member in good standing? Simple questions, no need to be embarrased one way or the other, no condemnation, no ill will. Lets be clear by what authority you have to speak on behalf of the SDA church.
miz3 Posted July 31, 2011 Posted July 31, 2011 Why don't state your position clearly right now miz3? Do you accept the fundamental beliefs of the SDA church? Are you an SDA church member in good standing? Simple questions, no need to be embarrased one way or the other, no condemnation, no ill will. Lets be clear by what authority you have to speak on behalf of the SDA church. I have told you what my Authority is! It is the Bible and the Bible only! There is nothing else to know!
ClubV12 Posted July 31, 2011 Posted July 31, 2011 So, you stand alone on your theology? No counsel, no church required, no Ellen White, no 2,300 day prophecy, no SDA's. I already knew that, just wanted to be clear on it for the sake of others....
Moderators John317 Posted July 31, 2011 Moderators Posted July 31, 2011 I am still not convicted about where Sister White fits into this, however, I refrain from discouraging others with my own disbelief. Hope you're reading her books and reading biographies of her life. Especially see Arthur White's multi-volumn biography. It is well-documented and gives you an accurate portrait of her. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
miz3 Posted July 31, 2011 Posted July 31, 2011 So, you stand alone on your theology? No counsel, no church required, no Ellen White, no 2,300 day prophecy, no SDA's. I already knew that, just wanted to be clear on it for the sake of others.... WRONG! GOD, JESUS CHRIST, AND THE HOLY SPIRIT, THE BIBLE stand with me also! That's my team! -------------------------------------------------------------- It appears that your team is: ClubV12, ancient counsels, SDA writings, SDA Brethren, Ellen White, and other human entities. -------------------------------------------------------------- I THINK I WILL TAKE MY TEAM!
Moderators John317 Posted July 31, 2011 Moderators Posted July 31, 2011 "Welcome with open arms fellow believers who don't see things the way you do. And don't jump all over them every time they do or say something you don't agree with even when it seems that they are strong on opinions but weak in the faith department. Remember, they have their own history to deal with. Treat them gently." It's up to everyone on the Forum to follow through with this welcome message. Nobody can do it alone. This means not being angry or upset at people simply because they have a different view than you have. It means you can disagree about issues and ideas, but you shouldn't do it if disagreeing with them makes you unable to control your feelings or how you express yourself to them. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted July 31, 2011 Moderators Posted July 31, 2011 GOD, JESUS CHRIST, AND THE HOLY SPIRIT, THE BIBLE stand with me also! That's my team! What is the first thing God said to Saul when He met Christ on the road to Damascus? Wasn't it for him to go to a believer? Notice the importance of the church in the NT. I don't see the church and other Christians anywhere on your "team." Why not? God is leading out a people and a church, not scattered individuals here and there. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
miz3 Posted July 31, 2011 Posted July 31, 2011 Originally Posted By: miz3 GOD, JESUS CHRIST, AND THE HOLY SPIRIT, THE BIBLE stand with me also! That's my team! What is the first thing God said to Saul when He met Christ on the road to Damascus? Wasn't it for him to go to a believer? Notice the importance of the church in the NT. I don't see the church and other Christians anywhere on your "team." Why not? God is leading out a people and a church, not scattered individuals here and there. I believe SDA have self-diagnosed themselves as being Laodicea! God says He hates that condition! That means SDA by their own diagnosis have kept themselves off our Team! We will be happy to welcome you back to our Team when you stop being Laodicea (which means you are not lukewarm any more). God wants on His Team only those who are HOT FOR GOD! By the way the Church God sent Saul/Paul to was not Laodicea!
Moderators John317 Posted July 31, 2011 Moderators Posted July 31, 2011 Is there anything in the Bible, and particularly in Christ's letter to the church of Laodicea, which indicates people are supposed to separate from the church? Is that the solution to the problem of believers during this time? If you are a Christian, claiming to be a follower of Christ, then you are a part of the Laodicean church, whether you know it or not. You don't help yourself by thinking you don't need God's church. God is still leading His church. He doesn't stop just because it has the problems he's diagnosed in Rev. 3: 14-22. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
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