No Prophetic Time after 1844

[skyblue888]

"One man presentation is a serious concern."

Yes, it is usually a serious concern but it shouldn't be. If that man has been sent of God and is presenting the truth, those in responsible positions should have enough of the Spirit to see that he is presenting the truth and if it is truth they are to receive it, believe it, and act upon it and then it is their responsibility to share it with others and to stand by the one who presented that truth.

When one studies the history of the church, every time God has sent a message through an instrument of His own, the light was resisted because it did not accord with the opinions of the leading men.

sky

[ClubV12]

Well I would disagree on BOTH points there Sky.

When someone comes bearing "new light" who is NOT a prophet it absolutely should be a serious concern. If they claim to be a prophet that is of even more concern. What if he DOES have new light? Then we should embrace it and stand by it. What if he doesn't? Then the flock needs protection. Either way, this is not something to take lightly.

I understand your concern that "new light" has often been rejected, as in 1888 and righteousness by faith. That was NOT "one man", it was at least TWO men WITH the blessing of a living prophet. An entirely different matter than "one man" coming out of the blue claiming a status close to or equal that of a prophet. Such a claim must be seriously considered. You see a paralell with the Jewish Nation rejecting Jesus as the Saviour and the Adventist church leadership rejecting "whatever" (1888, 1901) new light might come around. I have a bit more faith in our church and it's leadership, in spite of past mistakes.

The issue here is a "one man" with "new light" concept. When I see "one man", don't care WHERE he's from, my concern goes up rather dramatically, AS IT SHOULD. Big time concern if that person claims to be directed by the Holy Spirit or claims similiar to being a prophet. Should I NOT be concerned? Just accept whatever he says? No. Should I reject him without a look? No. But it remains a serious issue.

Secondarily, I think it is misleading to say "every time" the "church" has rejected a messenger of God with "new light". The bible does not typically record the details when it IS accepted! And typically such messages were delivered by PROPHETS. Not "one man" who walked out of his tent one day.

I know you disagree with Henrys concept but considering the "message" he is bringing and after due consideration, I find little of value here. That should NOT be used as an example of how the "church" rejects new light "every time". Mole hill into a mountain, I don't believe THIS thread is the time and place for such an example.

[skyblue888]

Originally Posted By: skyblue888

I wasn't reflecting upon Henry's messages per se but upon a principle. I do not agree with Henry's private interpretations any more than you do and you know it. What I am afraid of is that someday we may be rejecting truth just because the leading brethren do not agree with it. When the brethren do not agree with a message that stands the test of the law and the testimonies, we are to receive that message even if it means to be alone. The word of God and the testimonies of His Spirit are to be our counsellors, not men. If there is anything that the history of the church in every age has taught us, it is that. Judging from what you have stated, you would have had serious problems with Jesus or Luther if you had lived in their day.

Time and circumstances must be taken into consideration.

sky

There is not much emphasis on the one man alone thing in the Bible. One Bible prophet thought he was the only believer left; and God said he was mistaken; that there were hundreds of others. Too often the one man alone deal is proffered as an excuse to say and believe whatever we feel like it, regardless of the wise counsel of others at times.

Over, I understand Elijah was not alone but he was the only one giving the warning message. He was not alone in the sense that there were many in Israel at that time that had not bowed the knee to Baal and who would agree with his message. But where were they when he needed support? They certainly did not make themselves known right away probably fearing what Ahab and Jezabel might do to them.

It is the same today. Are we not repeating history?

"There has been a departure from God among us, and the zealous work of repentance and return to our first love essential to restoration to God and regeneration of heart has not yet been done. Infidelity has been making its inroads into our ranks; for it is the fashion to depart from Christ, and give place to skepticism. With many the cry of the heart has been, 'We will not let this man reign over us.' Baal, Baal, is the choice. The religion of many among us will be the religion of apostate Israel, because they love their own way, and forsake the way of the Lord." T.M.467,468.

I have no doubt that as in the days of Elijah there are many among us today who have not bowed the knee to Baal. But that does not mean that these have no need to hear the message for this time in whatever guise the Lord may choose to send it.

Agree?

sky

[ClubV12]

We certainly cannot rest on our behinds when considering WHERE or from WHO "new light" may come from. Nor can we safely assume if the GC rejects it it's OK for us to do likewise. At the same time, I'm not going to attempt to track down every voice crying, "Here I have the truth"!!! That would be exhausting!

My approach is to stay focused on what I KNOW to be truth, the foundation, to compare any "new light" with. If it IS truth, it will be in perfect harmony, all though that may be difficult to discern early on. Some "new light" demands close inspection as the truth lays close to error in some cases.

In many cases, it is rather obvious and I'll pass on it while I consider those issues which are truth in a deeper way. Am I at risk of missing something? I suppose we all are, staying close to Jesus is our only hope in that regard. Some errors will be SO convincing we will NOT be able to discern the truth without the Holy Spirit.

HOW do we KNOW if the Holy Spirit IS speaking to us? By living up to the light we already have. If you've rejected plain truth already, don't expect to accept "new light" with the Holy Spirits guidance. It just doesn't work that way, your "ripe" to accept a delusion in place of truth.

[Overaged]

"One man presentation is a serious concern."

Yes, it is usually a serious concern but it shouldn't be. If that man has been sent of God and is presenting the truth, those in responsible positions should have enough of the Spirit to see that he is presenting the truth and if it is truth they are to receive it, believe it, and act upon it and then it is their responsibility to share it with others and to stand by the one who presented that truth.

When one studies the history of the church, every time God has sent a message through an instrument of His own, the light was resisted because it did not accord with the opinions of the leading men.

sky

[hch]

Pope Benedict resigns

The one man show is almost 100% spurious - history shows one after the other of people claiming new light, and not actually being anywhere close to it. There is very good reason to double-check everything coming across the board like this; there are too many voices with this furtive battle cry of new light:

For about two years this thread has laid dormant. So how close is the preaching that Benedict XVI will not continue in office past his 7th year? 7 is the number of completeness in the context of Revelation relating to the church at the end of the world.

"The number 7 indicates completeness, and is symbolic of the fact that the messages extend to the end of time, while the symbols used reveal the condition of the church at different periods in the history of the world." {AA 585.3}

All the while I continued to proclaim that the papal beast of revelation 13 with 7 heads depict 7-popes (Pius XI & XII, John XXIII, Paul VI, John-Paul I & II, and Benedict XVI).

And I have studied these popes in light of Revelation 17 to say and write that 5 are fallen (Pius XI & XII, John XXIII, Paul VI, and John-Paul I): one is John-Paul II (it was during his reign that the Lord gave me understanding of this prophecy); one is to come Benedict XVI and he is to reign a short time. My study has linked 7 as the number of completeness to Benedict's reign so much so that I have tweeted on at least 11 occasions:

"Pope Benedict XVI has but a very short time left" 3 Sept 2011

"#Pope Benedict XVI marks his last year with a Latin America trip that includes a visit to #Cuba" 23 March 2012

"With Benedict XVI in his last year, Who's going to be the new pope? As I read it a demon masquerading as John-Paul II will take the job!" 3 April 2012

"Is pope Benedict going to be pope in 2013?" 29 April 2012

"Months ago I tweeted that pope Benedict xvi is a short timer. Now Vatican power play is news! Y u b last 2 know?" 28 May 2012

"If Pope Benedict's 8th year is really his 7th, his time ends before May 2013" 7 July 2012

"Pope Benedict's 8th year is really his 7th, because his ascension year was John-Paul II's last year. Will Benedict XVI's 7th year B his last" 8 August 2012

"Pope #Benedict XVI As I read Daniel's prophecy, 7's number of completeness. His ascension year (zero) 2005. He might last till spring 2013?" 30 September 2012

Pope Benedict announced this morning (Monday February 11, 2013) that he is resigning as of 28 February 2013.

Truly the king, i.e.,pope that is to reign a short space is Benedict XVI.

Revelation 17:10 "And there are seven kings [popes]: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space [7 is the number of completeness].

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings [American Presidents], which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast."

How long do the American presidents have with the beast? One Hour!

"Christ asked, 'Are there not twelve hours in the day' (John 11:9)? Jesus also told Peter, 'Flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but My Father which is in heaven' (Matthew 16:17). What else did God reveal to Peter? 'That one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day' (2 Peter 3:8). Consequently, there is an hour whose length varies. Sha’ah Zemanit*: 'Proportional hour, i.e. an hour according to halachah. Total daylight hours divided by 12.' Thus in some instances, a prophetic hour can be 1/12th of a 1000-year day: 83-years 4-months. Present Truth is important" (*http://www.chabad.org/library/article_ cdo/aid/134527/jewish/About-Zmanim.htm . Put-Out the Light, p. 247).

Pope Benedict's resignation is effective 28 February 2013 at which time the prophetic hour ends. Thus it began 28 October 1929 for the 83-years 4-months to end 28 February 2013.

Did anything happen on 28 October 1929 (other than Black Monday), something that could link apostate Protestantism to Catholicism as they are depicted as uniting on the beast in Revelation 17?

Pius XI who had received the healing of the deadly wound in 1929 elevated Pedro Segura y Sáenz to the college of Cardinals. Thus Segura was a participant in the election of Pius XII.

"Segura was created Cardinal-Priest of Santa Maria in Trastevere by Pope Pius in the consistory of 19 December the same year. As he could not attend the actual ceremony, he later received his red hat personally from Pius [XI] on 28 October 1929...Segura upheld the Church's teaching in the December 1864 Syllabus of Errors by Pope Pius IX , condemning separation of Church and state, especially opposing toleration of Protestants"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedro_Segura_y_S%C3%A1enz

Cardinal Segura who condemned the separation of Church and state, especially opposing toleration of Protestants received his red cardinal hat on 28 October 1929 from Pius XI who reportedly was instrumental in putting Truman in the White House. And the ten American Presidents from Truman to Clinton bonded more and more with the papacy until the time arrived for the beast from the earth to arise with its 2 lamblike horns (Bush II and Obama) who take up the work where the papacy left off.

“When the Papacy, robbed of its strength, was forced to desist from persecution, John beheld a new power coming up to echo the dragon’s voice, and carry forward the same cruel and blasphemous work. This power, the last that is to wage war against the church and the law of God is… the nation which it symbolized--the United States” (ST, February 8, 1910 par. 5).

[JoeMo]

Interesting post, Henry. I guess we will know soon enough if your words ring true.

[cricket]

Very interesting post, hch. Thanks.

[Gibs]

There is no more "TIME" prophecy after 1844. "Time" prophecy being year for a day but you would be hard pressed to show there isn't more literal time prophecy!

Look at Rev 11:, that whole chapter is the very end and is about the last witness to the world. Those 42 months are not years. That prophecy was not fulfilled before 1798 in no way shape or form!

Look at Rev 13: there we find after the deadly wound is healed, the beast system is given 42 more months to continue! That's it, no more continue!

Besides we may be seeing the deadly wound healed now as it appears Martyrdom is beginning again without recompense!

For the deadly wound to be healed Martyrdom has to begin again as it was before the deadly wound when it was done without recompense, that is without being arraigned for it.

We now are seeing Christians being Martyred for their faith now in some places, so is it healed? I cannot say at this time, as we cannot know for sure the truth of the reports and how true were these Christians, only He knows for sure,

So we see we cannot pinpoint the end of the 42 months of Rev. 13: Noone is to know the exact time, but His own He has them to see it is close!

Can we not see the end now is very near? I say yes, emphatically!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[hch]

If we do not know that the beast with the two lamblike horns is taking charge of the battle against the church of God and that the horns on that beast depict Bush II and Obama, what defense will you have against their deceptions? Putting the prophecies of the endtime off to some future date when they are upon us defeats the purpose that God intended that the prophecies should serve to guide His people through the time of trouble.

[hch]

There is no more "TIME" prophecy after 1844. "Time" prophecy being year for a day but you would be hard pressed to show there isn't more literal time prophecy!

Can't tell if you are agreeing with me or offering an opposing view.

I believe that the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation had a local application. A partial fulfillment in the interim between when they were given and the time of the end. And a final (complete) fulfillment at the time of the end.

Unfortunately as I see it many of the brethren take partial fulfillments as though that is the end of the matter.

The year for a day is true and can be verified when Daniel and Ezekiel are studied. And literal time for Revelation after 1844 is true.

[hch]

If we do not know that the beast with the two lamblike horns is taking charge of the battle against the church of God and that the horns on that beast depict Bush II and Obama, what defense will you have against their deceptions? Putting the prophecies of the endtime off to some future date when they are upon us defeats the purpose that God intended that the prophecies should serve to guide His people through the time of trouble.

[hch]

And back on the idea of prophetic time:

As the world looks at the Vatican, do we know what to expect?

I would note something that I have encountered in my study. I have come across some interesting points relating to time (the Hour of His Judgment).

The Hour of His Judgment is come.

That is a point in time when the Judgment arrives as it was when Jesus said My hour is not yet come.

But an hour is also a specific length of time like 60-minutes

"There is a concept in Judaism called Sha’ah Zemanit:

“Proportional hour…Total daylight hours divided by 12. ” http://www.chabad.org/library/article_ cdo/aid/134527/jewish/About-Zmanim.htm

"Since a day with the Lord is as 1,000-years and 6,000-years are allotted for sin to run its course, the 1,000-years for Satan to be cast into the abyss parallels the Sabbath rest that he so despised. Thus the 7-days of creation foreshadow a 7,000-year limit until sin is completely eradicated. Based on a 1,000-year days composing the 7,000-year/week, how long would an hour be? Did Jesus not answer, “Are there not twelve hours in the day?” (John 11:9.)

"Can the length of the Hour of Judgment be calculated from the perspective of the Sha’ah Zemanit: 1,000-year day divided by 12-hours? Based on that math an hour can be 83-years and 4-months. That being true, when His Judgment Hour began on 22 October 1844 with the judgment of the dead, 83-years 4-months ended on 22 February 1928. Is it possible for the Judgment hour to have ended on 22 February 1928, then why did Jesus not come on that day?"

I suspect that the Judgment of the living is also for and hour. Since the Judgment of the dead began on 22 October 1844 (Yom Kippur) while the papacy was dead from its deadly wound, I wondered when the Judgment of the Living might begin? The SOP says in Ellen's day that we can't know that date for certainty.

But if after the Judgment of the dead continued for one prophetic hour of 83-years 4-months, and if the judgment of the living were to begin when the papacy was alive (recovered from its deadly wound in 1929) on Yom Kippur (14 October 1929) then the 83-years 4-month time frame would end 14 February 2013. YESTERDAY?

It is also interesting that the beast in Revelation 17 is allotted an hour for the ten kings to be with the papacy.

My study indicates that pope Pius XI received the healing of the deadly wound in 1929 and according to Jesuit boasting, the papacy was instrumental in getting Truman into the White House (May 2000 issue of The SPECTRUM Newspaper, http://www.theforbidden knowledge.com/hardtruth/blackpope.htm). Thus I understand that America beginning at Pope Pius XI and Truman was to bond with the (papacy) beast for one hour (83-years 4-months).

From Yom Kippur 14 October 1929 until Pope Benedict resigned (the papacy was alive) and it has been 83-years 4-months that ended yesterday. And if we count backwards 83-years 4-months from the day the pope's resignation becomes effective (28 February 2013) we come to 28 October 1929. On that day Pius XI who had received the healing of the deadly wound in 1929 elevated Pedro Segura y Sáenz to the college of Cardinals. Thus Segura was a participant in the election of Pius XII.

"Segura was created Cardinal-Priest of Santa Maria in Trastevere by Pope Pius in the consistory of 19 December the same year. As he could not attend the actual ceremony, he later received his red hat personally from Pius [XI] on 28 October 1929...Segura upheld the Church's teaching in the December 1864 Syllabus of Errors by Pope Pius IX , condemning separation of Church and state, especially opposing toleration of Protestants..."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedro_Segura_y_S%C3%A1enz

Cardinal Segura condemned the separation of Church and state, especially opposing toleration of Protestants received his red cardinal hat on 28 October 1929 from Pius XI who reportedly was instrumental in putting Truman in the White House. And the ten American Presidents from Truman to Clinton bonded more and more with the papacy until the time arrived for the beast from the earth to arise with its 2 lamblike horns (Bush II and Obama) who take up the work where the papacy left off.

"When the Papacy, robbed of its strength, was forced to desist from persecution, John beheld a new power coming up to echo the dragon's voice, and carry forward the same cruel and blasphemous work. This power, the last that is to wage war against the church and the law of God is… the nation which it symbolized--the United States" (ST, February 8, 1910 par. 5).

Food for thought

[hch]

we should remember that the fourth angel comes at the right time repeating the message that Babylon is fallen is fallen.

"The light which attended this angel penetrated everywhere, as he cried mightily, with a strong voice, "Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird." The message of the fall of Babylon, as given by the second angel, is repeated, with the additional mention of the corruptions which have been entering the churches since 1844. The work of this angel comes in at the right time to join in the last great work of the third angel's message as it swells to a loud cry. And the people of God are thus prepared to stand in the hour of temptation, which they are soon to meet. I saw a great light resting upon them, and they united to fearlessly proclaim the third angel's message." {EW 277.1}

The priests' sex scandals proclaim to the world that Babylon is fallen.

If Benedict was forced to resign because a world body was about to indict him for covering up the crimes of his priests and that European organization was going to impound the Vatican's wealth: without a pope, the process may be delayed.

If any of that is true, the papacy might not be too inclined to replace the pope.

And there is a precedence for the Catholic Church to be popeless for a year.

In 1798 the French took Pope Pius VI prisoner to France. He died that year in his captivity.

The following year 1799, there was no pope.

In 1800, Pope Pius VII was installed.

If there is anything to the political allegations, Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI is still around to give spiritual counsel to the Catholic Church, but it appears that there is no official leader to be indicted.

Babylon is fallen. Some of the virgins are sleeping. And the Bridegroom is even at the door.

Blessings

[Gibs]

Henry what I am telling you is there is literal day for day prophecy that is to happen between 1844 and the consumation.

All prophecy isn't fulfilled yet, much to go, we just need to unlearn and learn that is all, and Adventism is caught up in thinking all is history. No way Hosea!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[hch]

Ellen White's quote of Revelation 13:4-18 has nothing to do with a "final fulfillment" concerning the "time element" of that verse. Rather, she is just quoting the full portion only to give a thorough background, but what she really means is that the final fulfillment takes place concerning verses 13-18. People read way too much into that if you ask me.

If anything, only the 1260, 1290 and 1335 of Daniel 12 MAY have a dual application, but I see no dual application in Revelation 13, as that means you would have to repeat verses 4-18 as happening twice--again in the future, and we know that the Beast is not going to have another deadly wound and then heal again. We also know that the Lamb-Like Beast is not going to come up out of the Earth again.

Are you implying that Ellen White did not know what she was doing or saying?

She specifically chose what she was inspired to quote from Revelation 13. Thus she quoted that the 42-months would have a final fulfillment. And now that Pope John-Paul II is identified as the final fulfillment, would you deny the surety of the Spirit of prophecy?

In the Spirit of Prophecy passage under consideration, she did not quote Revelation 13:3 "And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast."

As Pius VI received the deadly wound in 1798 and Pius XI received the healing in 1929, John-Paul II literally received a wound from 4 bullets and recovered.

But Ellen White did not quote Revelation 13:3. She QUOTED v. 4: "And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?"

After John-Paul II's wound was healed ALL the world wondered after the beast. When the 1929 wound was healed it could not be said that ALL the world wondered after the papacy because America did not.

But after Pope John-Paul II's wound was healed America (Reagan) sent an ambassador to Rome.

And America (Bush I) declared that John-Paul II was the "world's moral leader." That is not a follower that is the head of all the Churches.

"who is able to make war with him?"

America was exalting the beast! Communism could not withstand him! And would you propose that Ellen White did not know what to quote when she stated that there would be a final fulfillment?

And when Ellen White included verse 5 in her list of things that would receive a final fulfillment: "And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months." She was right on!

Pope John-Paul II died 42-months after 9/11/01 which links to the season and time in Daniel 7.

America was identified by Ellen White in 1884, 1888, and 1911 as the beast the comes from the earth in fulfillment of v. 11. Truman confirmed it by literally drawing fire down on Japan twice in WWII. And Obama is doing it now by using drones to kill American citizens. Fire being the flash of the missiles that his drones are shooting as he repudiates the very principles of the Constitution. No man shall be denied life or liberty without due process. Where are the charges, the indictment, the trial of peers; when Obama declares an American to be a terrorist and orders his death?

The problem is not with the Spirit of Prophecy or the Bible. The problem is with the fact that the Spirit of prophecy has been twisted to say that there will be no more prophetic time after 1844. And it does not say that!

Ellen's wording is difficult to follow and those who accepted that error that has subtly crept into the Church since 1844, have promoted this lie as truth and dwarfed the spiritual development of God's people.

And by conceding that the 1260, 1290. and 1335 have a dual application, you affirm that there is prophetic time after 1844. Thus by saying that there is not and agreeing that there is you would make Ellen a false prophet by saying that she said there is no prophetic time after 1844 and then proving that there is at least one instance of it in the Bible.

Ellen would not contradict herself or the Bible and since her testimony is true, the problem is not with her view but with how badly it has been twisted to say something that she did not say.

[BobRyan]

Quote:

The world placed all time-proclamation on the same level and called it a delusion, fanaticism and heresy. Ever since 1844 … Our position has been one of waiting and watching, with no time-proclamation to intervene between the close of the prophetic periods in 1844 and the time of our Lord's coming. We do not know the day nor the hour, or when the definite time is, and yet the prophetic reckoning shows us that Christ is at the door.10MR 270.1 & 16MR 178.2

The world’s position that places all time-proclamation on the same level is contrasted with our explicit position. Our position is not of all time-proclamation, but specifically that no time-proclamation is to intervene between the close of the prophetic periods in 1844 and the time of our Lord's coming, because we do not know when the definite time is. After 1844, there is no specific proclamation of the time of our Lord's coming.

What were the prophetic periods spoken of here? “The time of the cleansing of the sanctuary —which was almost universally believed to take place at the Second Advent—was definitely pointed out.” (GC88 328.2) “The 2300 years of Daniel 8:14 must terminate with 1843. Accordingly we looked to the end of this year for the coming of the Lord.” (ST, March 30, 1876 par. 1) “God tested and proved His people by the passing of the time in 1843. The mistake made in reckoning the prophetic periods was not at once discovered…” (LS80 186.1)

The prophetic period, the 2300-years extending from 457 BC to 1843 when the Sanctuary was to be cleansed, was definitely pointed out as the time of Christ’s Advent. Early Adventists including Ellen White also knew that the papacy was supreme from 538 AD to 1798, a period of 1260-years within the 2300-years and that the 1290-days foretold in Daniel 12 were the 1290-years from 508 to 1798. Thus when the 1335-days ended in 1843; the prophetic period from 457 BC to 1843 was the 2300-years of Daniel 8:14; and that the 1260, 1290, and 1335-years of Daniel 12 all fit that timeframe perfectly. Ellen White explained: “the 1843 chart was directed by the hand of the Lord, and that it should not be altered; that the figures were as He wanted them.” (EW 74.1) But when Jesus did not come in 1843, the early Adventists reexamined and recalculated the prophetic period.

“The prophetic periods reached to 1844 and that the same evidence which they had presented to show that the prophetic periods closed in 1843 proved that they would terminate in 1844.” (EW 236.1) How can the same evidence possibly prove that the prophetic period from 457 BC closed in 1843 and terminated a second time in 1844?

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted By: hch

Friend; if you did not know it - WE ARE IN THE TIME OF TROUBLE SPOKEN OF BY DANIEL THE PROPHET. ..

I believe we are in the little time of trouble right now leading up to the time of trouble.

Do you believe the time of trouble begins before the sunday law is enforced?

I don't think it does.

There has been persecution against Christians for 2000 years. This is not the little time of trouble.

The little time of trouble refers to specific persecution regarding the Sabbath topic prior to the close of probation. A time in which there will be many martyrs over the sabbath question.

in Christ,

Bob

[hch]

Interesting post, Henry. I guess we will know soon enough if your words ring true.

JoeMO,

I Praise God that I made it through the weekend.

The Lord blessed. I preached for three meetings for about 5 hours (total). They were well attended from as few as 50 to more than 100 people. The presentations focused on the Three angels' messages and a call to revival. I am not a trained preacher and I don't pretend to be one.

Sabbath afternoon, one saint said that she could not sleep after hearing the Friday evening Revival message. She kept waking to hear the words of the sermon ringing in her ears and spent much of the night in prayer.

During one point in the Sabbath afternoon meeting the elder that invited me to speak, got up and stopped my preaching. With a powerful voice, he repeated what I had just said. Afterwards, he told me "This is the Loud Cry Message, don't be afraid to give it with authority."

And some of the saints in attendance assured me that they have already spoken to their pastors to invite me to give the message to their churches. As Danny S so fondly says, "Where God guides, He provides."

Surely the fourth angel will sound at the appointed time. And as we study to show ourselves approved of God, and demand the Holy Spirit, He will fulfill His promise and give us the Holy Spirit as we need Him when we need Him most.

be blessed

[hch]

There is no more "TIME" prophecy after 1844. "Time" prophecy being year for a day but you would be hard pressed to show there isn't more literal time prophecy!

Gibs,

I reread your post. you seem to be trying to differentiate between "TIME" prophecy and "Time prophecy."

It states in Daniel 7:12 "As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time."

In the context of the 4 kings that shall arise from the earth (v. 17) I read this period that has no stated start or end date to end 9/11/01.

To calculate that date, I know that a year has 360-days for biblical prophecy.

A 360-day year has 4 seasons of 90-days each. With a day for a year that is 90-years. Add to that a time (it is already a year). Thus as I read it, there are 91-years predicted in the interim from 1844 to Christ's second Advent.

That does not fit with what I hear you saying.

But if you count from 9/11/01 to the day of Pope John-Paul II's death (April 2, 2005); there are exactly 42 full months.

He is the pope that personally had a deadly wound. After it was healed, the world wondered after him, no one could make war against him: the American presidents (Reagan called him a king and sent an Ambassador to his kingdom and Bush I called him the "world's moral leader" which is akin to head of all the churches), and Communism could not stand against him. Then he died 42-months after 9/11/01.

[skyblue888]

As was shown in another thread, the message that Babylon the Great is fallen will not be present truth until her sins have reached unto heaven (Rev.18:5) and as shown this will happen at the time when the law of God shall be made void through the enactment of the NSL in the US first and then in every country on the globe.

Therefore the message of Rev.18:1-5 is still future.

sky

[hch]

True - and the 1335 is a timeline that is entirely on the other side of that divide - since it starts in 508 A.D.

in Christ,

Bob

Bob,

I can understand the 2300-years for the cleansing of the Sanctuary to begin at the 457 BC decree of Artaxerxes when Ezra cleansed the Temple in Jerusalem. I can understand how it ended twice.

Once in 1843 (2300-457=1843) from the perspective of those on the BC side of the timeline and how that aligns with the 1260, 1290, and 1335-years.

And how it ended again in 1844 after the tarrying time that was to intervene between 1843-1844 so that the prophecy would align with the events of Christ's life and the taking of the Gospel to the gentiles and the 1810 years that remained.

But I had to read your comment several times before I understood that you were saying the same thing that I understand in fewer words.

Thanks for keeping it simple. I sometimes forget to apply the principle (need to make myself a note of it): Keep it Simple Saints.

[hch]

As was shown in another thread, the message that Babylon the Great is fallen will not be present truth until her sins have reached unto heaven (Rev.18:5) and as shown this will happen at the time when the law of God shall be made void through the enactment of the NSL in the US first and then in every country on the globe.

Therefore the message of Rev.18:1-5 is still future.

sky

Sky,

It is public record that Catholic Priests have been abusing children to such an extent that is too shameful to mention it. So while the Catholic Church (Pope Benedict XVI) has been forbidding priests to marry, forbidding birth control, and forbidding gay lifestyles; his bishops and cardinals have been sheltering priests that have been engaging in behavior that is far worse.

Does not James say, If they have broken one of the commandments they are guilty of all?

"Babylon is fallen, is fallen" So much so that the secular world abhors its sins. But what of Protestant America?

While the world cringes at the sins of Babylon, Protestant America embraces her and longs to be in her fold so much so that 7 of the 50 American states have legalized gay marriage and more are lining up to take the plunge.

And President Obama has opened the military to gays and wants to treat them as husbands of husbands and wives of wives.

As the hour of His Judgment has been repeated, Babylon has fallen has fallen!

Don't put off til tomorrow what we should have done yesterday, tomorrow may be too late.