No Prophetic Time after 1844

[hch]

...Here is some Bible:

Nebuchadnezzar was told: "Thou art this head of gold."

Was he symbolically the head of gold in Daniel 2?

[John317]

Chedder, Christ could have come over a hundred years ago. Similarly God could have taken Israel directly into the Promised Land. Christ is waiting for the church to be ready for Him to come take His people home. So the "time of the end" is the time between 1798 and Christ's return.

When you consider the time that this world has been here, 200 years is like a flash in a pan. But remember that time could have been as little as 50-80 years. It is not God's fault that time has lingered as it has.

The real question is: Do I-- do you, do we-- really want Christ to come? What are we doing about it?

Originally Posted By: chedder

No royal palace of an evil conquering king has been built in Jerusalem in the past 200 years!

That has no bearing on the topic, does it? Are you claiming that this must happen before you and I should get ready for Christ to come?

Are you sure you are not misreading or misunderstanding prophecy? Where are you getting the idea that a royal palace must be built in Jerusalem by an evil conquering king? I think I know but I don't want to read something into your statement that may not be there.

[hch]

HCH,,, just curious, is it your opinion that those who do not accept your message, your proposed dates, your theology on this issue will suffer a delusion (as great as yours I might add) and as a result will be lost?

In other words, is this "doctrine" you present a salvational issue?

[John317]

...Everybody must have been up too late last night. I have not seen any answers to the second part of the question yet. Hopefully as the day goes on someone will venture to keep the biblical basics going.

No, I just have been busy with other things. But yes, I was up very late, as usual. My body's clock is off because of 21 years of working all night long.

[ClubV12]

HCH, so it's a fact then, you consider those who would question or reject your message as being unable to discern the truth and will thus be lost.

"Those who become confused in their understanding of the Word, who fail to see the meaning of antichrist, will surely place themselves on the side of antichrist."

This is the quote you posted, read it again, slowly, it's talking to you my friend.

In a multitude of counselors there is safety. I don't believe that you and you alone have received the light on this subject. There have been many voices on this forum making much the same claim. Here, I have the truth. No, listen to ME. For the most part, they stand alone. I see no John the Baptist in any of these poor deluded souls, the search continues...

As for myself I will not waste another minute studying this issue. Whatever portion there be that contains a gem of truth, the Lord will reveal in His good time. He will not withold any good thing from us, especially as it regards a knowledge of salvation.

[ClubV12]

"Many apparently good things will need to be carefully considered with much prayer; for they are specious devices of the enemy to lead souls in a path which lies so close to the path of truth that it will be scarcely distinguishable from it." 3MR 26.4

The unconverted heart will not be able to discern the true path. Some will be swept away with one false theory or another, (ALL (100%) WILL be swept away when the ultimate Omega becomes fully apparent.

Being unconverted then is a most serious situation, as ALL we be swept away who are not. How then do we know if we are converted? Some think they are, but they are not. Some think they are not, but they are! Make this your first study, wrestle with this until you know for sure. I am convinced that MOST Seventh-day Adventists are not converted, thus MOST Adventists will fall for one false theory or another, but ALL will fall when the Omega becomes apparent.

While I preach and teach and love Righteousness by faith, make no mistake, this does not for a moment do away with the required works!

Conversion, some clues:

A love of the truth, all the truth. For instance, most of us accept the premise that Sister White major works are of the Lord. The conflict series and such, we accept that. What about such things as the health message, ALL the health message? Health reform and lifestyle? Dancing? Music? Movies? Card playing? Starting to squirm yet...? To controversial?

A LOVE of the truth, not getting "pretty close", but fully embracing it, in all respects is a hall mark of conversion. That doesn't mean you have arrived, it means you see the goal. I hear the cry already, "legalism"!!! Then so be it, the truth remains. If you find yourself picking and choosing that which you think was merely Sister Whites opinion, or only for her day, you have missed the principle of life, the message from the Lord. You need to seriously consider the "conversion" factor.

Righteousness by faith is like power steering, you first have to turn the wheel for the power to kick in. We have our part to play, if we don't take that seriously, we WILL be swept away in one delusion or another.

Is THIS "1335 Futurist" theology a delusion? Sister White warned Uriah Smith that he needed to be converted. He assumed that was the message he needed to deliver to the ministers and Pastors of his time. The very message specifically meant for him, went right over his head. Thats a solem thought, I apply it to myself, lest I be swept away.

[cheddar]

That has no bearing on the topic, does it? Are you claiming that this must happen before you and I should get ready for Christ to come?

Are you sure you are not misreading or misunderstanding prophecy? Where are you getting the idea that a royal palace must be built in Jerusalem by an evil conquering king? I think I know but I don't want to read something into your statement that may not be there.

The last verse of Daniel ch. 11

-And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him. Dan 11:45

If we read verse 40 it says that this final battle happens at the 'time of the end'.

So where in history (1798 - present) did this occur?

[John317]

...The last verse of Daniel ch. 11

-And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him. Dan 11:45

If we read verse 40 it says that this final battle happens at the 'time of the end'.

So where in history (1798 - present) did this occur?

OK, I understand where you're coming from. You're right that this prophecy has not yet occurred.

But that is not what's keeping the Lord from returning for His church. The Lord is not waiting for various events to happen. Those things will happen as a result of the activity of Satan. They have not yet happened, though, because God hasn't given Satan permission to do them.

Satan will work through various human powers-- the man of sin, the antichrist, or the little-horn power-- when God allows him to do it. And God will allow Satan to do those things only when God sees that His church is ready.

So, then, what really matters is the church being ready to go through the last-day events that will bring extreme persecution of God's people.

Those prophecies in Daniel 11: 45 will happen very fast and be an overwhelming surprise to people on earth.

By the way, the power it is talking about there is the King of the North. He is destroyed when Christ returns, as described in 2 Thess. 2: 3-10. See below:

2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way.

2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

2:9 [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

[hch]

Why is 9/11 anymore significant than say:

The Civil War

WW1

Great Depression

WW2

Kennedy, a Catholic President

...

For the same reason that the decree to rebuild Jerusalem in 457 is more significant than the one Cyrus issued 70-years earlier

[hch]

HCH, so it's a fact then, you consider those who would question or reject your message as being unable to discern the truth and will thus be lost.

[hch]

"Many apparently good things will need to be carefully considered with much prayer; for they are specious devices of the enemy to lead souls in a path which lies so close to the path of truth that it will be scarcely distinguishable from it." 3MR 26.4

[hch]

...Here is some Bible:

Nebuchadnezzar was told: "Thou art this head of gold."

Was he symbolically the head of gold in Daniel 2?

[ClubV12]

As I said before, though I would post a 100 bible verses and a 1,000 EGW quotes it would not change anything. You are in to deep for "reason and logic" to address these issues. You have invested so much time and feel so strongly the Holy Spirit is guiding you in this it looks very dark indeed.

You don't need any more bible verses or quotes, you need to consider the same counsel Sister White gave to Uriah Smith. To seek a true conversion from the Lord, to humble himself. He saw the message as one he should deliver to others, never suspecting it was for himself.

What verse could I share that would make any difference? What logic could I employ that would change the course one iota?

I am employing principles in a determination of this theology. I am not closed altogether to some of the concepts presented, but there are significant principles being violated.

To much date setting with to much justification as to why it's OK. It's NOT OK. To much immediate surface "fear", sell all you have NOW, get your money out of stocks or where ever NOW. In general, good advice, but here, taken to an extreme level, BASED ON DATES. That shows a lack of trust and faith. What ever "good advice" or "good concept" here presented has crossed a line well into fanatcism. No bible verse or EGW quote can cure that, God help you, I don't think I can.

The biggest issue is, "counsel of the brethren", it's missing. You stand alone, terribly alone.

[ClubV12]

A few days ago I read an online article by a deeply sincere Adventist who supports the 1335 Futurist concept. His article was well written, sharp guy, it was all about why the day/year princple is wrong.

I didn't need to read it, certainly won't bother studying it, I know from PRINCIPLE it cannot be correct. Destroy the day/year principle, destroy the 2,300 year prophecy, the very foundation of Adventism. And yet, this fellow says he fully supports the 2,300 year prophecy, Ellen White, the Adventist church, etc. This particular delusion is very deep seated.

[hch]

Originally Posted By: John317

That has no bearing on the topic, does it? Are you claiming that this must happen before you and I should get ready for Christ to come?

Are you sure you are not misreading or misunderstanding prophecy? Where are you getting the idea that a royal palace must be built in Jerusalem by an evil conquering king? I think I know but I don't want to read something into your statement that may not be there.

The last verse of Daniel ch. 11

-And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him. Dan 11:45

If we read verse 40 it says that this final battle happens at the 'time of the end'.

So where in history (1798 - present) did this occur?

[hch]

As I studied this morning, the Lord guided me to Isaiah 48

1 “Hear this, O house of Jacob, who are named Israel

And who came forth from the loins of Judah,

Who swear by the name of the LORD

And invoke the God of Israel,

But not in truth nor in righteousness.

2 “For they call themselves after the holy city

And lean on the God of Israel;

The LORD of hosts is His name.

3 “I declared the former things long ago

And they went forth from My mouth, and I proclaimed them.

Suddenly I acted, and they came to pass.

4 “Because I know that you are obstinate,

And your neck is an iron sinew

And your forehead bronze,

5 Therefore I declared them to you long ago,

Before they took place I proclaimed them to you,

So that you would not say, ‘My idol has done them,

And my graven image and my molten image have commanded them.’

6 “You have heard; look at all this.

And you, will you not declare it?

I proclaim to you new things from this time,

Even hidden things which you have not known.

7 “They are created now and not long ago;

And before today you have not heard them,

So that you will not say, ‘Behold, I knew them.’

8 “You have not heard, you have not known.

Even from long ago your ear has not been open,

Because I knew that you would deal very treacherously;

And you have been called a rebel from birth.

9 “For the sake of My name I delay My wrath,

And for My praise I restrain it for you,

In order not to cut you off.

Let's hope that this prophecy does not repeat in Spiritual Israel

[hch]

The problem is not with the prophecy, but that you have not studied it carefully to show yourself approved of God.... It will not fit your notions unless you set your notions aside and let the Holy Spirit teach that which He has sealed up until the last days.

[Overaged]

I didn't see that hch; but don't bid us "farewell," yet! I enjoy the challenges you present...

[hch]

I didn't see that hch; but don't bid us "farewell," yet! I enjoy the challenges you present...

"As we near the close of this world’s history, the prophecies recorded by Daniel demand our special attention, as they relate to the very time in which we are living." PK 547.2

Da 11:34 "Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries."

[ClubV12]

Unless your making claim to be a prophet and this is your message from the Lord to the people, are there others that have also seen this light and are in harmony with your message?

Safety in a multitude of counselors you see, unless one is specifically claiming to be a prophet of some level, with direct information from the throne of God.

That is "step 1" when considering new light and holding fast that which is. The light MUST pass the tests, or be rejected.

[skyblue888]

Daniel 11:45 is not that complicated. It starts with verse 40 which speaks of Atheistic France in 1798 (king of the south then) pushing at the king of the North (papal power). At that time the papacy received a deadly wound. She lost her temporal supremacy. But this wound is going to be healed (Rev.13:3) and again Satan through the papacy will for a very short time plant the tabernacles of his palaces between the seas (multitudes of this earth--Rev.17:15) and God.

Compare Daniel 11:45 "He shall plant the tabernacles of His palaces between the seas and the glorious Holy Mountain. Yet he shall come to his end and none shall help him" with the next following statements. Notice the similarity of language. These statements show that the correct reading of Daniel 11:45 is not "between the seas in the glorious holy mountain," but "between the seas and the glorious holy mountain."

"He (Satan) cannot expel God from His throne, but through the system of idolatry, he plants his own throne between the heaven and the earth, between God and the human worshiper." E.G. White, Review and Herald, Oct.22, 1895; 1 B.C.1105.

"In this world he (Satan) has set up a kingdom of darkness, of which he, the leader in guilt, is prince. He desired to usurp the throne of God. Failing in this, he has worked in darkness, in crookedness, in deception, to usurp his place in the hearts of men. He has set up his throne between God and man, to appropriate the adoration that belongs to God alone." MS 33, 1911; 6 B.C.1119.

At the time of the fifth and sixth plagues "he shall come to his end and none shall help him." This is the last part of Daniel 11:45. None shall help him because at that time the whole world will turn against him--the king of the north--and bring him down to the pit.

sky

[Overaged]

Originally Posted By: Overaged

I didn't see that hch; but don't bid us "farewell," yet! I enjoy the challenges you present...

"As we near the close of this world’s history, the prophecies recorded by Daniel demand our special attention, as they relate to the very time in which we are living." PK 547.2

Da 11:34 "Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries."

Hey; you forgot Daniel 11:32

[hch]

don't bid us "farewell," yet! I enjoy the challenges you present...

[Overaged]

"the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits."

Yes, and this text is from Dan 11:32 One of the things I like to note when I come across it is how Old Testament, and New Testament are so connected and related. Jesus says in John 17:3 "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."

[skyblue888]

"the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits."

This is the latter rain and loud cry.

sky