No Prophetic Time after 1844

[hch]

Originally Posted By: hch

And she clearly states that the 43-months will have a final fulfillment before Jesus comes:

Originally Posted By: EGW

In the last days Satan will appear as an angel of light, with great power and heavenly glory, and claim to be the Lord of the whole earth. He will declare that the Sabbath has been changed from the seventh to the first day of the week; and as lord of the first day of the week he will present this spurious sabbath as a test of loyalty to him. Then will take place the final fulfillment of the Revelator's prophecy.

And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months...

[Revelation 13:4-18, quoted.] {19MR 282.1}

[hch]

You said -

Quote:

1) The decree to rebuild Jerusalem has been repeated

(Jerusalem being teaching of peace) 31 May 1998

[what are the implications if this is true and we don't understand it?]

2) the endtime prince of the covenant (counterfeit) was anointed on the very day this prophecy indicated.

I said "I have no idea what events you are talking about"

It seems we are still stuck there.

in Christ,

Bob

[hch]

Since Daniel 9:25-27 was included in the Book of Daniel and the BOOK was sealed until the time of the end: 9:25-27 has to be sealed until the time of the end as well.

But 9:25-27 was fulfilled in the days of Christ. so how could it have been sealed until the time of the end?

When Revelation 10 stated "thou must prophesy again" it was a command for that which was in Daniel that had been fulfilled before 1844 to have a second fulfillment.

Beginning with Daniel 9:25, it was written in such a way as to be very difficult to follow, yet knowing the history of Christ's life and death on earth, the translators could take the words that Daniel wrote and follow his thought. But in the endtime, when the prophecy repeats, the same thing can be done.

Here is what Daniel wrote:

Know <03045> (8799) therefore and understand <07919> (8686), that from the going forth <04161> of the commandment <01697> to restore <07725> (8687) and to build <01129> (8800) Jerusalem <03389> unto the Messiah <04899> the Prince <05057> shall be seven <07651> weeks <07620>, and threescore <08346> and two <08147> weeks <07620>: the street <07339> shall be built <01129> (8738) again <07725> (8799), and the wall <02742>, even in troublous <06695> times <06256>.

[hch]

You said -

Quote:

1) The decree to rebuild Jerusalem has been repeated

(Jerusalem being teaching of peace) 31 May 1998

[what are the implications if this is true and we don't understand it?]

2) the endtime prince of the covenant (counterfeit) was anointed on the very day this prophecy indicated.

I said "I have no idea what events you are talking about"

It seems we are still stuck there.

in Christ,

Bob

[hch]

Originally Posted By: hch

...

3) he failed as predicted...

... I am not certain that any event or any point in your timeline above is clearly seen ...

in Christ,

Bob

[hch]

Originally Posted By: hch

4) he confirmed the covenant with many for 1 week

5) in the midst of that week, he set up the abomination that makes desolate by casting down Christ's sacrifice and the oblation [At that time Apostate Protestantism took the driver's seat in American politics.]

...

in Christ,

Bob

[hch]

Since I have written so much about what is uncharted territory for so many, and the response has been so mute to say the least, should I continue?

There is so much more.

As I was pondering this topic this morning, I remembered Daniel's admonition: the wise will understand. And Christ's parable about the 10 Virgins that taught that the wise would go into to wedding, but the foolish would be shut out.

Then I remembered the apostle's counsel, If anyone lacks wisdom let him ask of God who giveth to all liberally and upbraideth not. And I wondered who will seek the wisdom that is needed at this very hour?

Then I was reminded of Jesus comment to the scribes and their naysayers:

24 And Jesus answered and said unto them, I also will ask you one thing, which if ye tell me, I in like wise will tell you by what authority I do these things.

25 The baptism of John, whence was it? from heaven, or of men? And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say unto us, Why did ye not then believe him?

26 But if we shall say, Of men; we fear the people; for all hold John as a prophet.

27 And they answered Jesus, and said, We cannot tell. And he said unto them, Neither tell I you by what authority I do these things.

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted By: Daniel 9:27

And he shall confirm <01396> (8689) the covenant <01285> with many <07227> for one <0259> week <07620>: and in the midst <02677> of the week <07620> he shall cause the sacrifice <02077> and the oblation <04503> to cease <07673> (8686), and for the overspreading <03671> of abominations <08251> he shall make it desolate <08074> (8789), even until the consummation <03617>, and that determined <02782> (8737) shall be poured <05413> (8799) upon the desolate <08074> (8802).

From the going forth of John Paul II’s command to apostatize to the children teaching peace on 31 May 1998 unto the inauguration of President Bush II there were exactly 138-weeks. Then sixteen weeks doubled ended on 9/01/01 when the anointed one failed to get briefed about the capture of a man that turned out to be the missing hijacker for 9/11/01.

At that point you lost pretty much anyone that might have had an interest. That is some pretty far fetched reaching.

in Christ,

Bob

[Lysimachus]

I must concur with Bob.

I believe you've gone way too far with these interpretations hch, and they are confusiong. God is not the author of confusion. You would do more harm than good in presenting these spurious "double-applications".

[John317]

Those "double applications" don't add anything to the urgency of being always ready for Christ's return. All they seem to do is sensationalize Bible prophecy.

[ClubV12]

Lost me when GW came up...

[hch]

When the individual posts are studied individually they make sense, but they have to be studied. It is not possible to walk in darkness and then see clearly when suddenly placed in the bright noon day sum.

It is written that the wise will understand. So who am I that I should be able to give the discernment that the Holy Spirit has blessed my understanding with to another? When my brethren do not know should they not ask of God?

We are not safe if we neglect to search the Scriptures daily for light and knowledge. Earthly blessings cannot be obtained without toil, and can we expect that spiritual and heavenly blessings will come without earnest effort on our part? The mines of truth are to be worked. Says the psalmist, "The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple" (Psalm 119:130). The Word of God must not be kept apart from our life. It must be entertained in the mind, welcomed in the heart, and be cherished, loved, and obeyed. We need also much more knowledge; we need to be enlightened in regard to the plan of salvation. There is not one in one hundred who understands for himself the Bible truth on this subject that is so necessary to our present and eternal welfare. When light begins to shine forth to make clear the plan of redemption to the people, the enemy works with all diligence that the light may be shut away from the hearts of men. If we come to the Word of God with a teachable, humble spirit, the rubbish of error will be swept away, and gems of truth, long hidden from our eyes, will be discovered. {1SM 359.2}

[hch]

Originally Posted By: 12tribes

Originally Posted By: EGW

Satan's work of ruin is forever ended. For six thousand years he has wrought his will, filling the earth with woe, and causing grief throughout the universe. The whole creation has groaned and travailed together in pain. Now God's creatures are forever delivered from his presence and temptations. “The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet; they [the righteous'] break forth into singing.” [isaiah 14:7.] And a shout of praise and triumph ascends from the whole loyal universe. “The voice of a great multitude,” “as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings,” is heard, saying, “Alleluia; for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.” {GC88 673.2}

While the earth was wrapped in the fire of destruction, the righteous abode safely in the holy city. Upon those that had part in the first resurrection, the second death has no power. [Revelation 20:6; Psalm 84:11.] While God is to the wicked a consuming fire, he is to his people both a sun and a shield. [Revelation 20:6; Psalm 84:11.] {GC88 673.3}

The context is that there were 6,000-years for Satan to rule earth and a 1,000-years for him to be in the abyss. Thus after the sin problem is ended it is being said that Satan had 7,000-years before meeting his end.

a day with the Lord is as a 1,000-years

there were 7-days in the creation week

sin is allotted 7,000-years including the final millennium

That is God's timeframe

There have been 2000-years from Adam to Noah

there were 2000-years from Noah to Calvary

There have been 2011 from Jesus to today

Being that we do not have an exact count for each

time period referenced above, we can only conclude that

we are very near the 6,000-year mark.

But God knows the exact day and hour that is fast approaching

Originally Posted By: 12tribes

According to calculations we are past 6000 years, but the Bible says that there would be an apparent delay

It looks to us like we have past the 6,000-year mark, but God knows for sure. On His clock we could be at 5998 or 5999.

So however much time we have it is not enough to be living like we have been. We are in the closing hours of the Investigative Judgment and we ought to live as though our lives are being reviewed for a final determination if we are worthy to be heaven bound or not.

Quote:

Matthew 24:48

(48) But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

2 Peter 3:3-4

(3) Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

(4) And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

Originally Posted By: 12tribes

So that means God is on time, it could be anytime that events will happen as we have seen things can happen very quickly

So is it time for our kids to join the military to earn their income? Is it time for us to have money tied up in stocks? Is it time to keep or cash in our 401k? Is it time to enlarge our families? Knowing some fundamentals about God's timetable is not a BAD thing. If it were not for our best interest, God would not have revealed it to us.

Was this post confusing?

[ClubV12]

Since Adam and Eve people have made a good case for why the coming of the Lord is imminent. And they were right! Today I believe it's more imminent than ever.

Your presentation here, hch, is yet another way to show how close it is. OK, I don't accept much of what you presented here as meaningful one way or the other, but the basic message comes through loud and clear. He is at the door.

I believe, regardless of how short one thinks the time is, reason should be prevail. Would I pull my money out of stocks? People were asking that question in the 1920's. Taking a "tax hit" may not be wise stewardship. Resources should be applied to the Lords work for the highest and best use. Not buried, but not left in great risk. Thats a question I'm asking today, what should I do? No one man can answer that question, to many variables. Should I join the military? WW1 and WW2 come to mind. Should I get married? I'll take Pauls advice on that and pass, but for others it's a valid question.

We should not stop planning ahead for a reasonable length of time. It is not yet time to abandon the farm, sell everything and do as the Millerites did, sit and wait for His coming. Nor should we be asleep. There is always a balance between ready and not being fanatical about it.

[Lysimachus]

HCH,

You keep quoting and repeating and repeating Ellen White statements most of us have already read countless times in the past. You keep quoting them as "proof" for your interpretations, but we do not see them in the exact same light as you are perceiving them. We do not see these yet future gems of discovery to be such as a literal 1260 days during the time of Pope John Paul II.

I sincerely believe that you have an imbalanced passion for this. You should be focussing on the pillars that have been established and reaching out with this information to fallen Protestant churches. But when adding all the other stuff you are bringing in to the mix, you are not going to grasp their attention. They will be confused. This is where your passion and zeal should be--with affirming the prophetic landmarks that have been laid.

We have things yet to learn about the 144,000, the Three Angel's Messages, the 4th Angel of Revelation 18, the nature of the sealing, understanding deeper issues revolving the Mark of the Beast and the Seal of God, etc. etc. There is MUCH yet to learn about these things. And yes, there will be things to unlearn, but those things to "unlearn" surely won't include that which has been established!

[hch]

Since Adam and Eve people have made a good case for why the coming of the Lord is imminent. And they were right! Today I believe it's more imminent than ever.

Your presentation here, hch, is yet another way to show how close it is. OK, I don't accept much of what you presented here as meaningful one way or the other, but the basic message comes through loud and clear. He is at the door.

I believe, regardless of how short one thinks the time is, reason should be prevail. Would I pull my money out of stocks? People were asking that question in the 1920's. Taking a "tax hit" may not be wise stewardship. Resources should be applied to the Lords work for the highest and best use. Not buried, but not left in great risk. Thats a question I'm asking today, what should I do? No one man can answer that question, to many variables. Should I join the military? WW1 and WW2 come to mind. Should I get married? I'll take Pauls advice on that and pass, but for others it's a valid question.

We should not stop planning ahead for a reasonable length of time. It is not yet time to abandon the farm, sell everything and do as the Millerites did, sit and wait for His coming. Nor should we be asleep. There is always a balance between ready and not being fanatical about it.

You give such a reasonable presentation and then knock it down.

Those that heard my warning back in April could have taken their resources out of the markets and put them into the Lord's work at that time. Now that the markets have fallen 2000 points, the so called high yields are turning into losses that are eating up the principle. When the money is squandered and despair takes hold of the unfaithful servant, remorse will make it more difficult for him to come to Jesus. Remorse that he left undone what he should have done while he was chasing rainbows. Remorse that if he had only listened to the word of God as it came to him from an unknown correspondent on an Adventist forum.

This is 11:59 PM on the Advent clock. The hour of the judgment of the dead has past, the Judgment of the living has been in progress for 83-years and we are in the end of the sealing time. The American image beast is about to flare up and you see no danger in our young people making their living in the military service of the last power that is to make war against God's people?

When Jesus says that it will be doubly difficult on women with babes, you don't see that this is the time that He was speaking of? Believe me, you will see much more than you ever imagined before this year has ended. But when you see what it is that I have forewarned you of that you could not see by faith, it will be to you shame that you did not wake up sooner.

But you are not alone and I weep for you and so many others like you that believe and have a form of godliness, but lack the power thereof to know the hour of your visitation.

As it is written in Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge:" so it is fulfilled this day.

[hch]

HCH,

You keep quoting and repeating and repeating Ellen White statements most of us have already read countless times in the past. You keep quoting them as "proof" for your interpretations, but we do not see them in the exact same light as you are perceiving them. We do not see these yet future gems of discovery to be such as a literal 1260 days during the time of Pope John Paul II.

I sincerely believe that you have an imbalanced passion for this. You should be focussing on the pillars that have been established and reaching out with this information to fallen Protestant churches. But when adding all the other stuff you are bringing in to the mix, you are not going to grasp their attention. They will be confused. This is where your passion and zeal should be--with affirming the prophetic landmarks that have been laid.

We have things yet to learn about the 144,000, the Three Angel's Messages, the 4th Angel of Revelation 18, the nature of the sealing, understanding deeper issues revolving the Mark of the Beast and the Seal of God, etc. etc. There is MUCH yet to learn about these things. And yes, there will be things to unlearn, but those things to "unlearn" surely won't include that which has been established!

Some of that which has been established is trash that has crept into the church since 1844 and it is barring the door from letting the light from Heaven in.

The pillars are fine and the pegs and pins are in place. But the subtle additions and tweaks of interpretation that have on several instances changed the signpost to point in the wrong direction will be a catastrophe to the church.

Why is it that 1/2 the virgins in Christ's parable are lost? could it be because 1/2 of Laodicea does not heed His counsel? They believe that some of themselves are blind and naked and poor and wretched, but thank God it is some dear brother or sister in the church but not ""___"". And while is it always someone else that needs to make the change, "___" must be ok?

I knew from the Scriptures that very few would listen and that much of this conversation would be a waste of time, but I could not bear to not make the effort.

If you knew what I cannot reveal to you, you would humble yourself before God and put away the doubt and disbelief that is casting its shadow over the light that is shining on your path Heavenward.

[ClubV12]

hch says,

"Those that heard my warning back in April could have taken their resources out of the markets and put them into the Lord's work at that time."

I do believe that would have been presumptous and boardering on fanaticism, to listen to somebodys post on the internet and make major financial decisions as a result.

There are many ways to preserve and protect capital. What to do and how to do it is complicated enough with taking internet advice based on some guy who thinks he's figured out prophecy! Even IF he has!

I think it was in early 2007 I had a "feeling" I should do more to protect my investments from a possible stock market crash. I wasn't a christian, I just had a nagging feeling about it. So I took action, the capital has been preserved, I haven't lost a dime, last year I MADE 7%! Smart financial decision based on prophecy? Hardly, and I aint that smart either. Looking back, I can see that and numerous other financial "quirks" that happened along the way because of the Lord. It was HE who protected and increased my assetts, and believe me, I have NOT forgotten. I'm giving back at a sustainable rate, so much in fact, my Pastor asked me if I understood what I was doing. He was concerned I was moving out of emotion or misplaced love. I'm not, I'm investing wisely in the Lords work with a steady plan.

At some point it will be appropriate to put everything on the table, pull out entirely. The Lord will in various ways move to direct HIS assetts, on His timing, I'm just the trustee.

I understand that FEW will hear and heed the warnings. But we teach and preach to the whole body, not knowing who the few are. The key is to quit looking at people to determine what you should do and when. By the way, I sold an expensive custom car recently, because I figured it was "time" to do so. For many reasons, not the least of which was in "time" it will all but impossible to sell such an item.

[Lysimachus]

If I remember correctly, I remember my parents mentioning something that Ellen White has counsels that we should not invest in stocks, and that she compares it to gambling.

[ClubV12]

Hmmmm, was it stocks or was it "patents"? I recall counsel about patents, but it was balanced with the idea of knowing who you are investing with and for what. As opposed to falling for some get rich scheme or carpet bagger "investment opportunity".

On the other hand, if you invent a new washing machine (for instance), you NEED to get it patented, as per Sister Whites counsel on such things!

The principle would apply to stocks when carefully understood. Day trading may be questionable. Long term stable investments may be different.

[Lysimachus]

There could be some qualifiers. I'll look into it and pull up some statements when I get the time. We'll have to evaluate the context.

[ClubV12]

What I would like to see is some financial product the Conference could offer that would allow for 401K, IRA or annuities to be "rolled over" into an SDA backed account. If I were to move my money out of where it's "parked" for the time being I would take a HUGE hit on the taxes. Not good stewardship.

On the other hand, our Conference has some kind of fund that pays a little interest and that money is loaned out to build churches and SDA schools at low interest to the borrowers! Now I like that plan and will be moving what I can into that without taking a big hit. It's reasonably liquid too, in case you need the money back in a hurry. But I don't see anything for 401K roll overs and such like that.

I WAS considering buying a second home, for rental and investment purposes. Then I was reading the Testimonies about how men do that sort of thing and end up spending all their time and effort "working" the investment. Stopped me cold! Stopped me right there!! No way I'm buying another house, the one I'm in keeps me plenty busy already. Thank God for good sound financial advice from the Testimonies!

[ClubV12]

Now heres the balance on a second house. I would consider buying a country home, as a retreat or a school of the prophets type deal. A place for those that need to get out of the city, could. An "ark" if you would, dedicated to His work, for His people. Not some investment that would tie me down.

Our Health Institutes sold stock to fund building new centers and maintaining old ones. At one point James White was considering selling an institution to pay the debts and refunding money to the stock holders! From that, like patents, I gather it's all about time, place and the right spirit. Locking up substantial funds anywhere is not advised if the Lords work is calling for those funds.

[John317]

You should be focussing on the pillars that have been established and reaching out with this information to fallen Protestant churches. But when adding all the other stuff you are bringing in to the mix, you are not going to grasp their attention. They will be confused. This is where your passion and zeal should be--with affirming the prophetic landmarks that have been laid.

We have things yet to learn about the 144,000, the Three Angel's Messages, the 4th Angel of Revelation 18, the nature of the sealing, understanding deeper issues revolving the Mark of the Beast and the Seal of God, etc. etc. There is MUCH yet to learn about these things. And yes, there will be things to unlearn, but those things to "unlearn" surely won't include that which has been established!

Originally Posted By: hch

Some of that which has been established is trash that has crept into the church since 1844 and it is barring the door from letting the light from Heaven in.

The pillars are fine and the pegs and pins are in place. But the subtle additions and tweaks of interpretation that have on several instances changed the signpost to point in the wrong direction will be a catastrophe to the church.

I can agree with you in general terms here, but could you please explain, or give examples of, what you believe is the trash that has been establisehd in the church since 1844?

[hch]

If I remember correctly, I remember my parents mentioning something that Ellen White has counsels that we should not invest in stocks, and that she compares it to gambling.