miz3 Posted September 2, 2011 Posted September 2, 2011 What is the greatest threat to the SDA Church today (being we are in the last days)? Quote
Moderators John317 Posted September 2, 2011 Moderators Posted September 2, 2011 The greatest threat to the SDA church comes from within, just as the greatest threat to Christian Church throughout all history has been from within. It was the same with the Israelites. If the Israelites had obeyed God and been faithful to Him, their enemies wouldn't have been able to win any of their battles. Ellen White says the same thing about the SDA church. In this, of course, she is in complete harmony with Scripture. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
miz3 Posted September 2, 2011 Author Posted September 2, 2011 The greatest threat to the SDA church comes from within, just as the greatest threat to Christian Church throughout all history has been from within. It was the same with the Israelites. If the Israelites had obeyed God and been faithful to Him, their enemies wouldn't have been able to win any of their battles. Ellen White says the same thing about the SDA church. In this, of course, she is in complete harmony with Scripture. Can you be specific as to what those "within" threats are? Quote
ClubV12 Posted September 2, 2011 Posted September 2, 2011 Within the Adventist church unbelief typically begins by subtle questioning of the Spirit of Prophecy. Not being able to discern opinion from inspired counsel it's a short route to reject more and more of the SOP as uninspired. Until finally the Lords messenger is openly rebuked and derided. Soon the pillars of the faith are removed, the downward march to perdition is well under way. "Unbelief", from within, people with a name but denying the power. Quote
miz3 Posted September 2, 2011 Author Posted September 2, 2011 Within the Adventist church unbelief typically begins by subtle questioning of the Spirit of Prophecy. Not being able to discern opinion from inspired counsel it's a short route to reject more and more of the SOP as uninspired. Until finally the Lords messenger is openly rebuked and derided. Soon the pillars of the faith are removed, the downward march to perdition is well under way. "Unbelief", from within, people with a name but denying the power. How wide spread in the SDA Church is this "unbelief" you speak of occurring now (today)? Second, is this unbelief going to continue to get worse, or will get better? Quote
Flyboy Posted September 2, 2011 Posted September 2, 2011 By unbelief perhaps you mean unbelief in what you believe. I see a great divide between those who call themselves liberals and conservatives, yet all profess to believe. I don't think it's unbelief at all. I think there is a threat from within, and it is those who point fingers at each other rather than at God. This includes leaders, from the very top, who insist on pushing their own ideas on others, despite the damage it may cause, simply for the sake of what they interpret as revival and reformation. More energy is spent in the revival campaign than on revival itself. This is the danger from within. Quote
Musicman1228 Posted September 3, 2011 Posted September 3, 2011 It is not unbelief. It is not faith. The greatest threat to the SDA church is TRUTH. Quote
ClubV12 Posted September 3, 2011 Posted September 3, 2011 Actually that would be error masquerading as truth, by sincere people who don't even know they are deluded. It starts with Ellen White and develops from there... Quote
Musicman1228 Posted September 3, 2011 Posted September 3, 2011 Actually that would be error masquerading as truth, by sincere people who don't even know they are deluded. It starts with Ellen White and develops from there... I fully agree with you that it starts with EGW for Adventists. But it doesn't stop there. Yes, lies to masquerade as truth; but for many who believe a lie as if it is the truth, truth masquerades as lies. That is the meaning of the message to Leodicea. Actually, for Christians lies begin with the apostle that the bondservants that are mentioned in the message to Ephesus (Rev.2:2) found to be false. God commends these people for this discovery, because it is critical to understand that the gospel this false apostle teaches is counter to the gospel of the Kingdom which Jesus taught. Couple this with the lies of EGW and you have a very difficult time finding the real truth. Quote
miz3 Posted September 3, 2011 Author Posted September 3, 2011 A short recap at this point reveals: 1. It appears to be universal that the threat is from within. 2. Most state that this threat is "unbelief". a. unbelief in what God says. b. unbelief in the Spirit of Prophecy. 3. Those who point fingers at others. 4. Leaders who push their own ideas and cause damage but call it "revival and reformation". 5. The threat is "Truth". [if I have miss characterized your views please feel free to correct my summary above, thank you.] ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is fascinating! If all those who put these ideas on the table would like to elaborate in more detail it would be much appreciated. Those who have not spoken yet are also encouraged to add their views to this discussion. Thanks to all who have participated so far. It is much appreciated. I look forward to more great comments. Quote
Moderators John317 Posted September 3, 2011 Moderators Posted September 3, 2011 How wide spread in the SDA Church is this "unbelief" you speak of occurring now (today)? Only God knows the answer to this question. But both the Bible and the Spirit of prophecy tell us that this is true. It is the same within the Christian Church as a whole. The SDA church is not unique in this sense, except that Rev. 12: 17 and 14: 12 shows that Satan is particularly attacking the Remnant church-- that church living just before the second coming of Christ which professes to keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus and to have the testimony of Jesus Christ, the Spirit of prophecy. One way Satan attacks the Remnant is to bring unconverted people into the church in order to encourage and spread disunity, doubt and false teachings. He uses the same strategy in the Christians Forums on the Internet. However, many of these eventually become converted and turn against Satan. Jesus says that if we individually try to throw out all the weeds, we will also throw out a lot of the wheat, so Jesus wants His people to pray for them and to treat these people with agape-love. Quote: Second, is this unbelief going to continue to get worse, or will get better? Unbelief will get far worse. But this unbelief will only make the truth shine brighter and brighter in comparison. The Holy Spirit is being withdrawn from those who have heard the truth for years but refuse to be sanctified by it. At the same time, the Holy Spirit is working more and more intensely and profoundly in the lives of those who hear the truth and practice it in their personal lives. There is a separation that is happening in the SDA church right now and it will continue to happen and become more and more evident as we draw closer to the time of Christ's return. The majority of the church will eventually fall away and join Satan's side, but their place will be taken by those who hear the truth for the first time and gladly accept it. A major way that Jesus will purify His church is through the pesecution which will come at the time of the Sunday laws. See Evangelism 700; 4 T 89; EW 271. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
miz3 Posted September 3, 2011 Author Posted September 3, 2011 John317, could you describe how satan is attacking the SDA Church "more" than the other Christian Churches. I know you said by bringing unconverted people into the Church. Is that all satan is doing? Does you view mean that the SDA Church will experience a drop in Church membership in a drastic way, very soon? Quote
miz3 Posted September 3, 2011 Author Posted September 3, 2011 Musicman1228, could you elaborate what you mean by with SDA it starts with Ellen White? Are you implying that with nonSDA it starts with something else? Please clarify? Quote
miz3 Posted September 3, 2011 Author Posted September 3, 2011 By unbelief perhaps you mean unbelief in what you believe. I see a great divide between those who call themselves liberals and conservatives, yet all profess to believe. I don't think it's unbelief at all. I think there is a threat from within, and it is those who point fingers at each other rather than at God. This includes leaders, from the very top, who insist on pushing their own ideas on others, despite the damage it may cause, simply for the sake of what they interpret as revival and reformation. More energy is spent in the revival campaign than on revival itself. This is the danger from within. What do you think will happen in the SDA Church because of this "finger pointing"? What effect will the "leaders" you speak of have on the SDA Church and what will the outcome be in your view? Quote
Lysimachus Posted September 3, 2011 Posted September 3, 2011 I was very tempted to say...the greatest threat to the SDA Church is mi...but then, decided I better not go there. Quote ~Lysimachus (Marcos S.) Author of article, Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation (see attachment for article) Currently writing a book, Vindicating the Historical School of Prophetic Interpretation Founder of the largest and fastest SDA Apologetics Group on Facebook, Seventh-Day Adventism - Defending the Pillars of the Faith Writer and apologetics contributor at Adventist Defense League Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation.pdf
miz3 Posted September 3, 2011 Author Posted September 3, 2011 I was very tempted to say...the greatest threat to the SDA Church is mi...but then, decided I better not go there. Your contributions to this discussion are most welcome. Please participate. Quote
Moderators John317 Posted September 3, 2011 Moderators Posted September 3, 2011 Does you view mean that the SDA Church will experience a drop in Church membership in a drastic way, very soon? No. It will continue to gain membership. Both God and the Devil bring people into the SDA church, just as both bring people into the Christian Church as a whole. At the time of the Sunday laws, there will be many SDAs who eventually drop away, but their place will be taken by people who are now in the other churches. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
miz3 Posted September 3, 2011 Author Posted September 3, 2011 Originally Posted By: miz3 Does you view mean that the SDA Church will experience a drop in Church membership in a drastic way, very soon? No. It will continue to gain membership. Both God and the Devil bring people into the SDA church, just as both bring people into the Christian Church as a whole. At the time of the Sunday laws, there will be many SDAs who eventually drop away, but their place will be taken by people who are now in the other churches. So in your view we will have to wait for the "Sunday Laws" to see any radical change in the SDA Church? Quote
miz3 Posted September 3, 2011 Author Posted September 3, 2011 I don't mind a dialogue between John317 and I. However, I am truly interested in what as many people as possible think about this question. This does not mean that John317 should stop but I would like many more to chime in as well. Folks I am truly interested in what you think about this! I am not looking for an argument in this case. Quote
Lysimachus Posted September 3, 2011 Posted September 3, 2011 Your contributions to this discussion are most welcome. Please participate. I found a few moments here with internet access where I'm staying, and I'd love to contribute, but you will have to wait if you wish me to participate to the point of contributing my full opinion on this matter. Quote ~Lysimachus (Marcos S.) Author of article, Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation (see attachment for article) Currently writing a book, Vindicating the Historical School of Prophetic Interpretation Founder of the largest and fastest SDA Apologetics Group on Facebook, Seventh-Day Adventism - Defending the Pillars of the Faith Writer and apologetics contributor at Adventist Defense League Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation.pdf
Moderators John317 Posted September 3, 2011 Moderators Posted September 3, 2011 John317, could you describe how satan is attacking the SDA Church "more" than the other Christian Churches. I know you said by bringing unconverted people into the Church. Is that all satan is doing? No, it is not all, but it is related to the other ways that Satan attacks the SDA church. His main way of attacking the church is to get it to reject and continue rejecting the 1888 Message and the Latter Rain. He also attacks the SDA church by bringing in false teachings such as the evolutionary theory. Another major way of attacking our church is through getting SDAs to forget why we exist as a church. He gets SDAs to reject the central teachings of the church, such as the heavenly sanctuary, the blotting out of sins, etc. In the place of these doctrines, Satan attempts to get the SDA church to accept the popular gospel of the other churches. He knows that if he can do this, he will be able to continue deceiving the world and taking untold millions into the grave without Christ. This may look very depressing, but it really is not depressing to those who put their trust in God because we know that not one person who is honest at heart in learning the truth and who sincerely loves Jesus will be lost. Satan is already a defeated foe and Christ has already conquered. The only question to be answered is how many of us are going to be on the winning side and saved in Christ's kingdom. God will take care of His people and His church. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted September 3, 2011 Moderators Posted September 3, 2011 Folks I am truly interested in what you think about this! I am not looking for an argument in this case. And I hope everyone takes part, particularly SDAs, since this has to do with the SDA church. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
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