God's Design for Man and Woman

[Gail]

How long have we known each other? It must be about 10 years now.

Yikes! Time's going faster than I'd like it to!

[skyblue888]

I moved from Vancouver Island to Abbotsford in the spring of 2,000. Not sure if I met you in church or at the ABC that year or the next.

[skyblue888]

By the way, Gail, the site shows that I joined in March of 2007. Don't know why cause I am pretty sure I joined as early as 2,000 or 2,001 unless my memory is failing me.

[Gail]

It may be that you were posting under another name. I think I remember you doing that...

[skyblue888]

the only name i can think of is adventbeliever

Would it be possible to verify that because it would be nice to see if I operated under that name for a few years and if I still could have access to what I posted under that name.

sky

[ClubV12]

What shall we say to those bound up in circumstances that are over whelming?

As John317 mentioned, you can't leave your wife/husband because there an unbeliever. It's OK to let her go, but what is your responsibility if she wants to come back? More, is it EVER justified to file for divorce in a case of abandonment? What IS God's design for man and woman in these cases?

It is difficult to frame in words these conflicts that vary so widely from one individual to the next. It is even more difficult to figure out how to counsel them, or even if you should! What can you say? We only see a very small part of the bigger picture folks face in their walk. What if you become a "false sympathizer", as were Millers friends? What if you don't deliver the "straight testimony" when that needs to be done? What IS love and HOW do you apply it correctly to any given situation? Granted, Miller was wrong in the choices he made, but God knows the heart and does accordingly.

[ClubV12]

Sky, the dynamics change for those who ARE following Christ as opposed to those who are considering it. Getting over that first hurdle can be very profound. I know when it first dawned on me that I would have to give up racing that was almost as difficult as considering I might have to end my marriage to continue my quest toward the Lord.

The choices have a certain clairity once you've accepted the truth, but before then it's much more diffcult to discern the correct path.

[skyblue888]

Yes, I agree. Once you have accepted the truth (and the truth is that the merits of Christ are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf), every burden is light, duty becomes a delight, and sacrifice a pleasure; the path that before seemed shrouded in darkness becomes bright with beams from the Sun of Righteousness. See 1 S.M.354.

sky

[miz3]

I think that is spot on Gordon, he was being mislead by friends, family, co-workers, the details of "who" these people were is not as important as the end result.

It is also true that he dearly loved these people and could not fathom the idea of having to separate himself from them. Moral delima? I couldn't rule that out. He certainly loved God and loving his fellow man was a demonstration of that love. How could he leave them to take that next step to follow God when it appeared to him that to do so would be "sin"? We are ever called to higher ground, but we are not called to do that which is beyond our ability. A "conundrum" considering verses like we can do all things through Christ!

We are told that in the very last of days in earths history many will throw off the restrictions of "family" and "friends" that have kept them from advancing in the truth or accepting the truth. We all come to a place where individually we will have to decide to stand for the Lord, no matter what the end result. Children will leave their mothers, husband their wives, families will be split. The "moral delima" binding them now will be removed, is the way I see that prophecy. I think the Sunday law and it's increasingly terrible consequences will play a major roll in this. There is coming a time when it will be clear to all that they have no other choice but to "leave home". For some, that time has not yet come. I think the "freedom" to make these terrible choices will be enabled by a world that is failing all around us. Financially, spiritually, Governments on the edge of collapse, death and destruction all around us as we near the very last days. In short, "nothing left to loose" in terms of earthly bindings.

In terms of MY personal delima, I had a concept of God, fuzzy, through a very dark glass. I could not resolve how taking that "next step" could be justified by the terrible moral consequences it would have brought to my family. My wife (ex) is a firm atheist, a University research Professor of chemistry. She would have left and taken my son for sure, which she eventually did. Though no fault of mine, I did everything in my power, truly, with an honest heart, to hold my family together. I felt "guilty" for some time wondering if I had done enough or that secretly I had urged her departure in some way(s)? Looking back now, I'm OK with it, the Lord was in it. Making plain that which I had to do AND providing, enabling me, a way to do it.

For some the question is: Is it OK to destroy your family, leave your wife, quit your job to follow God? Is that presumption or wild fanaticism? Is it an "excuse" to get out of a bad situation?

Why is it a "sin" now and in Miller's day, and not a "sin" when the "trouble days" come?

[John317]

We need to keep the discussion on topic, which is God's design for man and woman. It's wandering too far off. It would be OK if you guys want to open a separate discussion about Miller. The connection is there somewhere but it isn't all that clear.

[ClubV12]

As John317 mentioned, you can't leave your wife/husband because there an unbeliever. It's OK to let her go, but what is your responsibility if she wants to come back? More, is it EVER justified to file for divorce in a case of abandonment? What IS God's design for man and woman in these cases?

Now I'm not sure if the above questions are on topic or not?

[John317]

What principles of God's design for man and woman do we see in the fact that God chose to make the woman from Adam's side?

[John317]

Sure, I think that's on topic. What do you think the answers are to those questions?

It seems clear to me that if there's been no divorce, and the wife wants to come back to her believing husband, he has an obligation to accept her back.

I don't think divorce would ever be God's ideal. God's plan would be for us-- no matter what the problem-- to come together in love and work things out so that the two can remain husband and wife. I've seen where a couple divorces and they live to regret it, and also where they could have divorced but remained together and were blessed because of it. God gives us the right to divorce under certain circumstances, but as Jesus said, he gives us this right because of the hardness of our hearts and not because it is God's desire.

I went through divorce, and I now see it as a way of running away from hard choices and personal responsibilities.

Good things-- and wonderful people-- can come into being as a result of divorce, but that doesn't mean God wanted the divorce to begin with. It just means that God is wonderful & inventive at making good come out of our terrible mistakes.

[miz3]

As John317 mentioned, you can't leave your wife/husband because there an unbeliever. It's OK to let her go, but what is your responsibility if she wants to come back? More, is it EVER justified to file for divorce in a case of abandonment? What IS God's design for man and woman in these cases?

Now I'm not sure if the above questions are on topic or not?

[12tribes]

Genesis 2:21-23

(21) And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;

(22) And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

(23) And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

Galatians 3:28

(28) There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Quote:

After the creation of Adam, “God said, ‘It is not good that man should be alone; I will make a helper comparable to him.’” God gave Adam a companion fitted for him, who would be one with him in love and sympathy. Eve was created from a rib taken from Adam’s side. She was not to control him as the head, nor to be trampled under his feet as an inferior, but to stand by his side as an equal, loved and protected by him. She was his second self, showing the close union that should exist in this relationship. “For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it.” “Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one” (Ephesians 5:29; Genesis 2:24). {BOE 13.2}

[Parade Orange]

Genesis 2:21-23

(21) And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;

(22) And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

(23) And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

Galatians 3:28

(28) There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Quote:

After the creation of Adam, “God said, ‘It is not good that man should be alone; I will make a helper comparable to him.’” God gave Adam a companion fitted for him, who would be one with him in love and sympathy. Eve was created from a rib taken from Adam’s side. She was not to control him as the head, nor to be trampled under his feet as an inferior, but to stand by his side as an equal, loved and protected by him. She was his second self, showing the close union that should exist in this relationship. “For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it.” “Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one” (Ephesians 5:29; Genesis 2:24). {BOE 13.2}

o u folks make it sound so romanti

[12tribes]

o u folks make it sound so romanti

I think God meant it like that so we can have a better understanding of God what it is like to have children, angels do not experience the closeness of a husband and wife or what it is like to have children, Satan accused God so God created a people who could understand Him better.

[Parade Orange]

GOD also maybe created HUMANS that procreate so the universe can watch what it is to be a'god' that 'creates' a family and watch it unfold!

just maybe we are a tiny example of GOD creating BEINGS and give freedom to them to choose.

just watch it play out on earth like it played out in heaven

the angels dont know what it is to be looked up to as a god

[doug yowell]

What principles of God's design for man and woman do we see in the fact that God chose to make the woman from Adam's side?

Glad to see a return to the topic. The most obvious intention is equality of being.Coupled with that is the two shall become(remain)one concept. Today's contempory concept of equality always seems to imply the separate but equal concept, more of an individual independence FROM the other rather than independence with the other.It is implied that Eve wandered from this intended unity because she didn't grasp it's full importance and Adam wasn't attentive enough to remind her.EGW's comments about the motivation for Eve leaving Adam's side are directly tied to her (Eve's)desiring to attain to a higher sphere (design)than she had been created for.Paul,in I Cor.11:3-12,points back to this original design and attachs it to the issue of authority in the relationship.The man was given the responsibility of authority. Adam's response to Eve's creation indicated the (correct) way he intended to look at those responsibilities, "this is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh." Also the original purpose of the design was clearly stated before God created the woman,"It is not good that man should be alone; I will make a HELPER comparable to him."

[CoAspen]

After the creation of Adam, “God said, ‘It is not good that man should be alone; I will make a helper comparable to him.’” God gave Adam a companion fitted for him, who would be one with him in love and sympathy. Eve was created from a rib taken from Adam’s side. She was not to control him as the head, nor to be trampled under his feet as an inferior, but to stand by his side as an equal, loved and protected by him. She was his second self, showing the close union that should exist in this relationship. “For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it.” “Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one” (Ephesians 5:29; Genesis 2:24). {BOE 13.2}

People attache to the word 'helper' their own definitions of the culture they live in. To most people it means someone else is in charge and the 'helper' is in the secondary role. If Eve is neither to control nor be under Adam, but as an equal and one with him, notice the word one, also implying 'equal', maybe we should follow the created intention and stop trying to continue this defining of Eve as anything else but Gods intention? Or does someone which to say Adam and Eve were one, but really two parts, capable of fighting against each other? That is not what the Bible says! Only the mental diseased person fights against themselves. Adam 1/2, Eve 1/2=1 whole creation...what is there to argue about?!! Could it be man still wants to be the top dog? Is that not what Satan wanted? Is that not really the essence of sin? Desire to be in control?

I don't expect anyone to change their mind, after all this argument has been going on since the beginning of time! Carry on!!!

[doug yowell]

[/quote=CoAspen]

People attache to the word 'helper' their own definitions of the culture they live in. To most people it means someone else is in charge and the 'helper' is in the secondary role.

[doug yowell]

?

I don't expect anyone to change their mind, after all this argument has been going on since the beginning of time! Carry on!!!

Thank you.

[miz3]

Originally Posted By: CoAspen

People attache to the word 'helper' their own definitions of the culture they live in. To most people it means someone else is in charge and the 'helper' is in the secondary role.

You haven't demonstrated why that definition is inherently wrong.You imply that if someone is in charge (like the Father in charge over the Son) every other (secndary)role (like Jesus submitting Himself to the Father's will)becomes an evidence of inequality,inferiority, and someone's evil desire to exercise a self-exalting domination. Yet the Bible reveals a chain of command structure that seems to work quite well among the sinless. It should be God who settles the issue of who He wants to "head" the operation, not the individual discretion of the person.

I agree with Doug!

We know what the "pecking order" so to speak is "after the fall". That part is cannot be disputed. Maybe rebelled against but the truth is clear.

However in the Garden before the fall the job description of what God meant by "helper" probably was different. What it exactly meant, or whether it included a "pecking order" or not no one really knows. The Bible does not make this plain.

If you want to know more the Bible is not the source that will explicitly tell you. You can use other sources but that will depend on what you believe is "inspired".

As far as the Bible and the Bible only is concerned we do not know how the relationship "nuts and bolts" worked before the fall.

[CoAspen]

Quote:

As far as the Bible and the Bible only is concerned we do not know how the relationship "nuts and bolts" worked before the fall.

So the Bible is wrong! God describes it in Genesis, ONE.

So we are to continue in the post fall condition, sin, and not try to return to the plan God had in place! WOW!!!

Unbelievable!!!

Maybe not...we are sinful humans after all.

[CoAspen]

I love it when you guys ignore your own 'quotes'!!