This Thing Of Error.

[BobRyan]

God alone is "free of all error". Our doctrines are free of error - but only because they come from God through the Bible.

[ClubV12]

Yes I read and agree completely with the added/edit including that Sister White quote in your comment above mine. I am following that counsel, right here on this thread, as you suggest, as the prophet says we should.

I'm not speaking to tickle anyones ears, I see the condition of the church and it is one that needs to be sighed and cried over. I will do that from within, I will NOT abandon God's "visible church" on earth for some "hidden one" in a single house portraying itself as it were, "Gods church" on earth. It is not.

"We should all feel our individual responsibility as members of the visible church and workers in the vineyard of the Lord. .... None of us can occupy a neutral position; our influence will tell for or against."

Testimonies for the Church, Volume 4 pg 16

"Many do not realize the sacredness of church relationship and are loath to submit to restraint and discipline. Their course of action shows that they exalt their own judgment above that of the united church, and they are not careful to guard themselves lest they encourage a spirit of opposition to its voice. Those who hold responsible positions in the church may have faults in common with other people and may err in their decisions; but notwithstanding this, the church of Christ on earth has given to them an authority that cannot be lightly esteemed. Christ, after His resurrection, delegated power unto His church, saying: "Whosesoever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whosesoever sins ye retain, they are retained."

Testimonies for the Church, Volume 4 pg 17

In the above quote Sister White acknowledges some leadership may err in their decisions. This is NOT a cause to leave the church.

"Church relationship is not to be lightly canceled; yet when the path of some professed followers of Christ is crossed, or when their voice has not the controlling influence which they think it deserves, they will threaten to leave the church. True, in leaving the church they would themselves be the greatest sufferers; for in withdrawing beyond the pale of its influence, they subject themselves to the full temptations of the world. .... Every believer should be wholehearted in his attachment to the church. Its prosperity should be his first interest.."

Testimonies for the Church, Volume 4 pgs 17-18

Come home Gibs, be a witness to the people in the church, they need you, God needs you. Someone to stand up and be counted, to give the trumpet a certain sound.

[Gibs]

ClubV12,

I must inform you that the shaking brought about the coming out and I am part of it. It is always the ones that stand on the Rock that always must come out. Why because the leadership has been taken over and in Adventism that has happened. A new theology of extreme liberalism has come in and I didn't realize the depths of it until I came on this forum as it has been some time since I've got among you and see to where it is gone to.

The other forums I work on are not SDA and the theology in those is no different than what is expounded here. In short a saved in sin theology. The great difference is the Sabbath and it isn't regarded and guarded as it used to be. Now it is believed Christ did it all and when coming and getting His forgivness it is for past sin and for all sins future, and to overcome is impossible. He came and died once and for all, yes for Adam on down to the end and His Blood only needed to be shed but the one time. The shedding of Blood was ended.

I'm apalled to no end of this new theology. Hogwash! He made it so everyone could be an overcomer, to say different is a lie from the pit.

I have no hesitancy to tell you this and neither does EGW or any that know the SAVING TRUE GOSPEL.

We have no hesitancy in telling you that in order to obtain the immortal inheritance and the eternal substance, you must be overcomers in this probationary life. Everything that blots and stains the soul must be removed, must be cleansed from the heart. We must know what it means to be a partaker of the divine nature, having escaped the corruptions that are in the world through lust. Are you willing to wage war against the lusts of the flesh? Are you ready to battle against the enemy of God and man? Satan is determined to enslave every soul if he can; for he is playing a desperate game to win the souls of men from Christ and eternal life. Will you permit him to steal from you the graces of the Spirit of God, and plant in you his own corrupt nature? or will you accept the great provision of salvation, and through the merits of the Infinite Sacrifice made in your behalf, become a partaker of the divine nature? God has given His only-begotten Son, that through His shame, suffering, and death, you might have glory, honor, and immortality.--Signs of the Times, June 15, 1891. {TDG 175.2}

The same ones have taken over the SDA leadership that have the Mormons, they only have more Mason's in the Hierarchy .

There is a lot of story to be told how the true ones always come out and I may just have to make a thread on that. They are the last end piece of that first, that Jesus and the disciples set up, the remnant. That church has never died or quit, it just keeps coming out.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[ClubV12]

I agree with the above Signs of the Times quote you posted about Gib's, it's a solem warning I, and all of us, should take seriously. This "saved in sin" theology you speak of is certainly not the theological position of the leadership of the Seventh-day Adventist church. It is not the position of anyone I know within the church. I don't know how you have come to the conclusion it is Adventist theology. Perhaps you are becoming confused by what you see and read on those "other web sites"? Or what you think you see as a result of leaving the Adventist church? However you came to this conclusion, it is not based on Adventist theology, in the pioneers time or now,nor will it ever be Adventist theology.

Do you believe in Righteousness by Faith? The fundamental message of 1888 the church had such a difficult time finding the balance between justification and sanctification?

I won't worry about the "Mormons", or the "Masons" taking over Adventist leadership, God is in control of the leadership of the church and the Governments to work His will. I won't entertain wild conspiracy theories of the Adventist church being run by the "Illumanati" or whoever, or some mysterious group behind the scenes.

The prophet says the church will appear as about to fall, but it does not fall. Do you believe the prophet? I do.

We have not yet seen the full force of the shaking. We have seen some tremblors that might signal an earth quake or a volcanic eruption soon to come, but we have not yet seen the shaken in full. When it comes, those without a firm grasp on the Lord will leave. They will be replaced by an influx of new people, many straight out of Sunday keeping churches. They will have to learn in a short time what it has taken others years to learn. God's church on earth, the Seventh-day Adventist "visible church", will be purified.

I do not expect a large revival and reformation to purify the Adventist church. While we NEED to call for that, to agitate the question, to bring it to the attention of the people we know that inevitably it won't happen. The prophet has said it won't happen! It will be the shaking that purifies the church, THAT in it's full power is yet to come. If we are not getting ready now, in our daily life, building a character like unto Jesus, it is the shaking that will catch us as a thief in the night. When the crisis hits, it will already be to late to make that change. The time for change is NOW. I will stay in the church and encourage the small percentage who understand the need and are making serious preparation. I will not run ahead of the Lord. I will not, as you have done Brother Gib's, bring that time of trouble prematurely on myself, or others, I will wait on the Lord.

The third angels message is NOT A CALL TO COME OUT OF THE ADVENTIST CHURCH, Brother Gibs. It is a call to come out of Babylon, the Sunday keeping and other religious organizations that do not follow the fourth commandment.

The SHAKING does not shake OUT Gods true people from the church, it brings IN Gods true people from outside the church!

[Gerr]

Gerry,

What I'm saying is He made it easy and very possible for each of us to walk as He walked when upon this earth and is expected of us and must be done if we would inherit the kingdom. Paul made it clear,

Ro 6:1 ¶ What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

Ro 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Paul also said, ESV | ‎Ro 7:18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh....23 but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members.

ESV | ‎Ro 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

As long as we are in this flesh, there will ALWAYS be sin, but I do believe that we can overcome INTENTIONAL/PREMEDITATED transgressions.

[

Quote:

We have no excuse for it is very clear to me. He took no power but we can have to also have the victory and be an overcomer. Hear EGW,

"Partakers of the divine nature." Is this possible? Of ourselves we can do no good thing. How, then, can we be partakers of the divine nature? By coming to Christ just as we are, needy, helpless, dependent. He died to make it possible for us to be partakers of the divine nature. He took humanity upon Himself that He might reach humanity. With the golden chain of His matchless love He has bound us to the throne of God. We are to have power to overcome as He overcame. {HP 59.2}

She also said this: "It is a sin to be sick, for all sickness is the result of transgression." CH 38.

And this: " Forgetfulness is sin. It leads to many blunders and to much disorder and many wrongs. Things that should be done ought not to be forgotten. The mind must be tasked; it must be disciplined until it will remember. {3T 12.1}

Do you think you can overcome these?

[Gerr]

ClubV12,

I must inform you that the shaking brought about the coming out and I am part of it. It is always the ones that stand on the Rock that always must come out.

I think you have this turned around. When grain is put through a sieve, what remains? When the blast of winter blows the trees, what remains?

[phkrause]

Originally Posted By: Gibs

ClubV12,

I must inform you that the shaking brought about the coming out and I am part of it. It is always the ones that stand on the Rock that always must come out.

I think you have this turned around. When grain is put through a sieve, what remains? When the blast of winter blows the trees, what remains?

Exactly Gerry

[Gibs]

Originally Posted By: Gibs

ClubV12,

I must inform you that the shaking brought about the coming out and I am part of it. It is always the ones that stand on the Rock that always must come out.

I think you have this turned around. When grain is put through a sieve, what remains? When the blast of winter blows the trees, what remains?

Well history proves my point, start with Christ and the disciples. They could not change the leadership of the corrupted Church at that time and had church separate and it eventually was the church that went to the Gentiles in AD 34. When the leadership is under another master and error has come in that cannot and will not be corrected there you pull out. Jesus and the disciples worked with them till AD 34 to break up the error but they would not. Jesus called them the synagoge of Satan and when it is that ole boy's it's time to get out.

Come out of her my people is the call. Then it happened again in the reformation as to whom again had taken over, so again those of His Body the True Ones came out, then Adventism came out of the apostate churches and some even out of that first Great Whore. Do I have to go further? That remanant piece the gates of hell will not prvail against her, she is the true body of Christ the Solid Rock they stand on and this last coming out must continue until no more can be called out.

We are at the utter end now, just a few short years yet, but they will be rough, very rough times are ahead.

You see none of the leaderships of the worlds churches can make a change from the creed system they have set themselves in. Try to and you will meet the ire of the dragon.

Taking it over physically isn't the war the saints are to fight. We do our best to convince and teach and when all efforts fail it is pull out time.

That remnant piece will not be a large number you can be very, very sure.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[ClubV12]

We have a sacred duty to support the church, it should be our first interest. Sadly, the prophet declares:

To those who would oppose the church, it is BETTER OFF without them.

"The church may appear as about to fall, but it does not fall. It remains, while the sinners in Zion will be sifted out--the chaff separated from the precious wheat."

Manuscript Releases, Volume 12 pg 324

There is NO QUESTION Sister White is speaking to the ORGANIZED OFFICIAL Seventh-day Adventist church in these passages.

"Every believer should be wholehearted in his attachment to the church. Its prosperity should be his first interest, and unless he feels under sacred obligations to make his connection with the church a benefit to it in preference to himself, it can do far better without him."

Testimonies for the Church, Volume 4

It is not left to just any member of the church to offer censure to our leadership, ESPECIALLY concerning those who are not even members of the church!

"No censure can be attached to our leading men. I believe, brethren, you are one with me in heart, in sentiment, in regard to our great need, and in the earnest desire and earnest efforts to meet the mind of the Spirit of God in these things."

Manuscript Releases, Volume 12 pg 327

"Many do not realize the sacredness of church relationship and are loath to submit to restraint and discipline. Their course of action shows that they exalt their own judgment above that of the united church....."

Testimonies for the Church, Volume 4

Gib's the message of the prophet is sure. You have left the church and it is better off without your membership and presence. You have asked for the straight testimony, you do not want someone to tickle your ears. I have done as you wished.

[phkrause]

Great post Club.

[Gerr]

Gerry: I think you have this turned around. When grain is put through a sieve, what remains? When the blast of winter blows the trees, what remains?

Quote:

Well history proves my point, start with Christ and the disciples. They could not change the leadership of the corrupted Church at that time and had church separate and it eventually was the church that went to the Gentiles in AD 34.

If my memory serves me correctly, Luther, Hus, Wycliffe, and the other reformers were booted out of their church. Adventists, by and large, are a people called out from the various churches of the world. I myself, came out of the RCC.

Quote:

When the leadership is under another master and error has come in that cannot and will not be corrected there you pull out. Jesus and the disciples worked with them till AD 34 to break up the error but they would not. Jesus called them the synagoge of Satan and when it is that ole boy's it's time to get out.

What you are saying to me is that - 1) The leadership of the SDA Church is under the leadership of Satan, 2) That they would not listen to you and you couldn't change the leadership to accede to YOUR wishes while the rest of the membership wanted the status quo.

Since the Adventist Church has a democratic form of governance, IMHO, your attitude strikes me as an astounding bit of hubris. Your position reminds me of a little boy who couldn't get his way and threatens to to go with his ball. If we all did that, where would the church be?

Quote:

Come out of her my people is the call.

As I already mentioned, SDAs are already a called out people. There's almost a Baptist church in every corner where I live right now. A friend told me that the reason for that is: whenever there's a disgruntled group who couldn't get their way, they just up and start another congregation! And when another group becomes disgruntled in that new congregation, they up and do the same all over again! That's madness! But if you don't want to stay in the ship, hey, that's your right!

But I'm reminded of a statement Paul made - NIV84 | ‎Ac 27:31 Then Paul said to the centurion and the soldiers, “Unless these men stay with the ship, you cannot be saved.”

[ClubV12]

This "home church" movement is gaining strength and attracting the more "sincere" believers within the church (even the very elect?). Think about it, it takes a lot of gumption to abandon the mainline church and setup your own church in your home! Some of the folks I have seen it attract have left me quite startled! Good folks, well educated in the word, serious students of Sister White and yet, making basically the same claims, and the same serious mistakes.

The church is in "apostasy". The dates used are faily common as well. 1888, 1903-1905, late 1950's. Periods of time when the church was going through significant internal stuggles. It did not appear to fall, but "home churches" take that meaning from these struggles.

While most all the "home churches" share the basic Adventist theology there are various "different" views from each group, different emphasis here and there. Creationist 7th Day Adventists focus on the "name" for instance. Another group takes righteousness by faith to extreme interpretations. Some think Dr. Kellogg got a "raw deal" and support him and his book (the one Sister White said we shouldn't even read, which I won't even name). Others lean toward Dr. Fords views on the sanctuary.

Of course dress reform, health reform, home schooling, home health work, etc. are top priorities. All good things I deeply believe in myself. As long as you stay BALANCED and not condeming of others while pursuing these excellent goals.

Gib's you bring something new to the dialog, something I haven't heard to date. Would you care to expound on your idea that the Mormon's and the Mason's have infiltrated and control the Seventh-day Adventist church leadership? I'd like to know more about this particular view point.

Someone needs to write a book on this subject,it aint going away and may well build to the point of major controversy within the church in the future.

[John317]

[John317]

We absolutely CAN overcome sin through faith in Jesus, THAT is justification, something we need every minute of everyday. Meanwhile, sanctification, the process of purifying our lives and coming closer to His likeness will take a lifetime. At which time, we will STILL fall short of perfection! But we don't give up, we strive toward the goal everyday. In the end, our works mean nothing, it is only the righteousness of Christ that allows for our entry to the Holy City.

We DO have a part to play in this. We DO have a duty to work with the Lord in overcoming our sinful nature. Don't put your feet up and sit on the couch waiting for some "miracle". Get to work, follow Gods blue print as you are convicted of it and see it, lean on Christ your only hope.

Excellent post here, Club.

[Gibs]

ClubV12,

You misunderstood my statement from what I meant it to say, I stated,

"The same ones have taken over the SDA leadership that have the Mormons, they only have more Mason's in the Hierarchy" .

I understand that Mormons have the most Masons of any church and the SDA is second.

This hits me very strange as EGW was very strong in her writings against Masonry. But I have some evidence I care not to get into at preaent and will go no further at this time, it is disturbing is all I can say at present and I'm not sure that more can be dug up.

These things are hard to uncover.

The only thing I have most difference with home churces around here is prophecy and the ones here are historicists and I am not, several prophecies yet are not fulfilled.

These around me expound sound doctrine, all of them, yes I think there's trifling differences but nothing that is too far out of line, especially on the salvation issue as they are solid together there.

You want to look at the issue that made them come out. In most cases I think you'll find it is the savation issue.

There is plenty of books and publications on the suject, you just won't find them at the abc's

I had many at one time and gave away most to people who wanted them and at one time about all that A T Jones wrote and I doubt if I got any, any more. I liked AT Jones he was a brilliant person but did get out of line and before he died righted things.

Anyway serious times face us Bro. so investigate with an open heart and mind for the truth that stands forever.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[John317]

.... another quote from EGW.

Just as long as God has a church, he will have those who will cry aloud and spare not, who will be his instruments to reprove selfishness and sins, and will not shun to declare the whole counsel of God, whether men will hear or forbear. I saw that individuals would rise up against the plain testimonies. It does not suit their natural feelings. They would choose to have smooth things spoken unto them, and have peace cried in their ears. I view the church in a more dangerous condition than they ever have been. Experimental religion is known but by a few. The shaking must soon take place to purify the church. {2SG 284.1}

Preachers should have no scruples to preach the truth as it is found in God's word. Let the truth cut. I have been shown that why ministers have not more success is, they are

afraid of hurting feelings, fearful of not being courteous, and they lower the standard of truth, and conceal if possible the peculiarity of our faith. I saw that God could not make such successful. The truth must be made pointed, and the necessity of a decision urged. And as false shepherds are crying, Peace, and are preaching smooth things, the servants of God must cry aloud, and spare not, and leave the result with God.{2SG 284.2}

Great EGW quote. Thanks for posting it.

Originally Posted By: Bro.Gibs

The shaking undelined above has taken place and there was a coming out of the ones that should have been upheld. ..... The Remnant are the come out ones. History proves it right there.

Where does Ellen White say we should leave the SDA Church, or that "the Remnant are the come out ones"? Please give the quote and the reference.

[John317]

"The same ones have taken over the SDA leadership that have the Mormons, they only have more Mason's in the Hierarchy" .

I understand that Mormons have the most Masons of any church and the SDA is second.

This hits me very strange as EGW was very strong in her writings against Masonry. But I have some evidence I care not to get into at preaent and will go no further at this time, it is disturbing is all I can say at present and I'm not sure that more can be dug up.

Are you referring to current members? (I know about some people's false ideas about previous SDAs being Masons, all based on a few photographs taken in the late 1800s showing some of them with their hands in their shirts.)

What is your evidence? What kind of evidence-- direct or secondary?

Do you believe you have the names of SDA leaders and non-leaders who are active today in the Masons?

Please send your evidence to me via Private Message.

[John317]

....The only thing I have most difference with home churces around here is prophecy and the ones here are historicists and I am not, several prophecies yet are not fulfilled.

OK, but how does that view make you NOT an historicist? If you are not an historicist, how would you describe your view of Bible prophecy?

Do you believe the prophecis in Daniel and Revelation concern the church and the history of the church since Christ's ascension?

For instance, who do you believe is the little-horn power of Daniel 7 and 8?

Who is the sea-beast of Rev. 13? Who is the earth-beast of that chapter?

I also believe that there are prophecies that are not yet fulfilled. But that doesn't mean I am not an historicist.

I don't believe that there are time-prophecies that have yet to be fulfilled. Do you believe there are still time-prophecies that haven't yet been fulfilled?

[John317]

....

You want to look at the issue that made them come out. In most cases I think you'll find it is the savation issue.

Who is the "they"?

Do you mean "they" and you disagree with the church's official doctrine on salvation? What exactly do you or "they" disagree with? Can you please quote the part they or you believe is false?

Originally Posted By: Gibs

There is plenty of books and publications on the suject, you just won't find them at the abc's.

What books? What are the titles and by whom are they written/published?

Originally Posted By: Gibs

I had many at one time and gave away most to people who wanted them and at one time about all that A T Jones wrote and I doubt if I got any, any more. I liked AT Jones he was a brilliant person but did get out of line and before he died righted things.

You can order most of A.T. Jones writings at the ABC. The ABC does have some of his writings in stock, at least the ABC in Loma Linda does.

What other books are you referring to?

[John317]

...These things are hard to uncover.

Did you uncover these things yourself by your own investigation, or did you find them out by reading other people's books? If you got them from other people's books, can you please give the name of the writer and the name of the books?

If you like, you could send me this information by PM. :-)

[John317]

.... Even nature testifies to a creator to the tribe deep inside africa who have never heard of Jesus Christ. Are they also a part of Gods church on earth? I think so. ARE they God's church on earth? No.

Will all the people in Gods church go through? Nope, only a fraction will. There were eight that made it in Noahs day, but there were in the boat! On October 21, 1844 there were 50,000 Millerites. On October 22, 1844 there were only 50 left, but they stayed in the boat.

Only two people went into the promised land, the rest were "shaken out" and replaced by others who came in. Joshua and Caleb, stayed in the boat. SOME of those Millerites went their own way, formed their own churches, some later left the newly formed Adventist group and became off shoots. Some shunned the pioneers and everybody else and formed their own "home church". The road that leaves the boat is wide and broad, don't leave the boat, even though it looks SURE to sink. It may appear about to sink, but it does not sink, it goes through to safe harbour.

Deserves to be posted and read all over again!

[John317]

...I have the 1872 list of published doctrines

(And now so do you )

http://www.greatcontroversy.org/gco/orc/fb1872.php/

and I have the one from the 28 that we have today, are you saying that comparing these two lists I will see that "one has changed" regarding sin and victory over sin??

Good question. I can't wait to see the answer and the evidence used to conclude that there has been a change. I don't see it.

[ClubV12]

Ellen White, Masons, pictures of the pioneers purporting to show Mason connections (hand signals and such) are not new. What IS new, to me, is taking that a step farther with the idea that the church leadership is controlled by "the same ones". Who are these "same ones"? The "same ones" that also control the Mormon church leadership?

Oh, by the way, before it comes up.... I don't now, nor have I ever, worked for any Seventh-day Adventist organization and I don't hold any office within my local or any other Adventist church. Never been asked to. I'm just another member of God's visible church on earth, the single object of His supreme affection.

[John317]

(quoting EGW): ...."Many do not realize the sacredness of church relationship and are loath to submit to restraint and discipline. Their course of action shows that they exalt their own judgment above that of the united church, and they are not careful to guard themselves lest they encourage a spirit of opposition to its voice. Those who hold responsible positions in the church may have faults in common with other people and may err in their decisions; but notwithstanding this, the church of Christ on earth has given to them an authority that cannot be lightly esteemed. Christ, after His resurrection, delegated power unto His church, saying: "Whosesoever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whosesoever sins ye retain, they are retained."

Testimonies for the Church, Volume 4 pg 17

In the above quote Sister White acknowledges some leadership may err in their decisions. This is NOT a cause to leave the church.

"Church relationship is not to be lightly canceled; yet when the path of some professed followers of Christ is crossed, or when their voice has not the controlling influence which they think it deserves, they will threaten to leave the church. True, in leaving the church they would themselves be the greatest sufferers; for in withdrawing beyond the pale of its influence, they subject themselves to the full temptations of the world. .... Every believer should be wholehearted in his attachment to the church. Its prosperity should be his first interest.."

Testimonies for the Church, Volume 4 pgs 17-18

Come home Gibs, be a witness to the people in the church, they need you, God needs you. Someone to stand up and be counted, to give the trumpet a certain sound.

Amen and Amen!!

[John317]

I must inform you that the shaking brought about the coming out and I am part of it. It is always the ones that stand on the Rock that always must come out. Why because the leadership has been taken over and in Adventism that has happened. A new theology of extreme liberalism has come in and I didn't realize the depths of it until I came on this forum as it has been some time since I've got among you and see to where it is gone to.

The other forums I work on are not SDA and the theology in those is no different than what is expounded here. In short a saved in sin theology. The great difference is the Sabbath and it isn't regarded and guarded as it used to be. Now it is believed Christ did it all and when coming and getting His forgivness it is for past sin and for all sins future, and to overcome is impossible. He came and died once and for all, yes for Adam on down to the end and His Blood only needed to be shed but the one time. The shedding of Blood was ended.

I'm apalled to no end of this new theology. Hogwash! He made it so everyone could be an overcomer, to say different is a lie from the pit.

Gibs, I am in essential agreement with you about the false theology that has come into the SDA church, but there are many who have not accepted that new theology and they are remaining inside the SDA church. I am among them. You should be too.

I have been on this Forum for about 7 years, and I can tell you that this Forum in no way represents what the SDA church stands for. We have many former SDAs here as well as anti-SDAs and ant-EGW's. We also have atheists and agnostics. Don't let those things cause you to believe the SDA church is represented here. That would be a sad mistake.

There are other SDA Forums that aren't anything like this one. We allow much more freedom of expression here than most of the other Forums. That means almost anyone can post here as long as they don't make personal attacks and as long as they cooperate with the moderators and administrators.

Are you aware that one of the reasons for the shaking is the introduction of false doctrines, brought into the church by individual members? But just because someone teaches false doctrine doesn't mean we should leave the church. Neither the Bible nor Ellen White support that position.