Keeping the Sabbath

[BibleOnly]

Originally Posted By: BibleOnly

Apart from Hebrews, I guess.

Hebrews where we ONLY find that the same Sabbath rest of Psalms 95 valid in David's day - "REMAINS" for the saints of God to this very day.

[BobRyan]

Apart from Hebrews, I guess.

[BibleOnly]

Paul is the one in Heb 4 that identifies the Sabbath as the Day that God rested in Genesis 2 - and Paul is the one that says that "there REMAINS therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God".

[BobRyan]

And apart from Jesus saying He came to give us rest.

[Gail]

I know that this can become a contentious issue, and I don't want to feed a contention...

I look at the Sabbath like this- It is a great day for me to devote to study and reading (which I love) and to chill with God.

Scripture pronounces it blessed, and it really is.

The love part of the commandments, which the commandments hang on, is a blessing. The commandment is not a DON'T as much as an invitation to happier living, just as respecting marriage vows or honouring your parents or having no other gods before Jehovah.

I know you are discussing the validity of it, timing, etc, and I'm sorry for the interruption. But to me when I consider the spirit (love) behind the commandments I see it as another way of enjoying keeping company with God. For me it's like a bonus.

[Guest]

Amen Gail!

[BibleOnly]

I'm skipping the bits where you misrepresent what I said.

Originally Posted By: BobRyan

In Galatians 5 Paul tells us what the Fruit of the Spirit is -- this is how we can "tell" if we have received it.

So you're saying that no non Christian has any of these things ? And that they can be immediately seen and measured, to make Acts 8 make sense ?

Originally Posted By: BobRyan

In John 14 Jesus said that the Holy Spirit comes to us and brings peace - the same thing Paul mentions in Gal 5.

This is true. But peace is not evidence of the Spirit, because non Christians also believe they have it.

Originally Posted By: BobRyan

In Romans 8:14-16 Paul makes the case that "The Spirit bears WITNESS with OUR spirit that we ARE the Children of God" but that this only happens "IF by the Spirit you ARE putting to death the deeds of the flesh".

The reason I point you to the book of 1John is that here is where we find all of the Bible "BY THIS we can KNOW" tests of the Christian.

And it is this that you are carefully avoiding.

Funny, I think you're avoiding my questions. I'm not avoiding anything. You are wrong about 1 John, not least because the book of Acts records how they knew someone was saved, and it's never by anything in 1 John.

Originally Posted By: BobRyan

You stopped short of vs 16 -- and I specifically insisted that we include vs 16 for the answer.

No, I pointed out a pertinent verse and asked you to explain it.

Originally Posted By: BobRyan

Let's look at Romans 8 vs 12-16

12 So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh

13 for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

14 For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

15 For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "" Abba! Father!''

16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,

[/quote']

Testifies how ? I quoted some verses from Romans 8, which explain how. You did not reply.

[Lysimachus]

Originally Posted By: BobRyan

Christ said in Mark 2:27 that the giving of the Creation week Sabbath to "mankind" happened back when The Sabbath - and Mankind "Were made".

Mar 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

This has to be the most insane interpretation of the Bible from you yet. Jesus said that the Sabbath was given to benefit man, not vice versa. It is for this reason that God does not require us to keep the Sabbath, in the New Testament, because man is more important, and the benefit of the Sabbath is expressed in a better way in this age. This says nothing about when the Sabbath was given.

But that is faulty reasoning brother. With the help of God, I think eventually we will be able to help you see that this is a false way of looking at it, if you make up your mind to be open. The Sabbath was MADE for man. For what? For their rest. Not to do whatever they want. But to relieve them from the cares of this world. It is a symbol of our rest from sin. A symbol of rest from worldly cares of this earth. It was made for man's benefit--in the sense of their salvation benefit! It points forward to the salvific benefit the future new earth to come. It points backward to the old creation, and points forward the new creation. The Sabbath day is a "renewal" of the Christian rest experience for each week. Each week the Sabbath day is a symbol of our eternal rest in Christ.

Remember, God is always at spiritual rest. "For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief." (Heb. 4:10,11)

Those who have truly found rest in Jesus Christ will cease their physical labors on the Sabbath just as God did from His. One could argue that this means to cease from our works of sin. But that is impossible, because the work God did was creation work. God has always been at spiritual rest. He physically ceased from His own works, and if we are truly resting in Christ, we will follow that example and also cease from our physical labors as God did from His.

It's very plain to the average person. I know some people who were raised not to keep the Sabbath, and they had no idea these texts existed. When I showed them, it blew their mind. It was SO simple to them! They said "THERE IT IS!"

Only those who think too deeply about a text, beyond what they should, have problems with it. They should pretend they are a new-born baby just reading the text for the first time, and it will be very plain to them.

[BibleOnly]

But that is faulty reasoning brother. With the help of God, I think eventually we will be able to help you see that this is a false way of looking at it, if you make up your mind to be open. The Sabbath was MADE for man. For what? For their rest. Not to do whatever they want. But to relieve them from the cares of this world. It is a symbol of our rest from sin. A symbol of rest from worldly cares of this earth. It was made for man's benefit--in the sense of their salvation benefit! It points forward to the salvific benefit the future new earth to come. It points backward to the old creation, and points forward the new creation. The Sabbath day is a "renewal" of the Christian rest experience for each week. Each week the Sabbath day is a symbol of our eternal rest in Christ.

[Lysimachus]

Originally Posted By: BobRyan

Paul is the one in Heb 4 that identifies the Sabbath as the Day that God rested in Genesis 2 - and Paul is the one that says that "there REMAINS therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God".

Hbr 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

I wish you could quote the Bible without adding your words to it.

He never added any words to it. He just used a different translation (ASV).

The American Standard Version says "sabbath rest"

The Common English Bible says "sabbath rest"

The English Standard Version says "sabbath rest"

The New American Standard Bible says "sabbath rest"

The New International Version says 'Sabbath-rest" (it capitalizes it too)

The Greek word for "rest" in the KJV is "sabbatismos".

Strong's gives the definition as "Sabbath keeping".

Please brother, I beg of you to quit throwing darts and coming to conclusions with assumptions before verifying what we are saying.

We have done our research on this matter. You need to exert a higher level of trust than you do.

[BibleOnly]

I'm sorry. He's plainly added and changed scriptures he quoted prior to this, so it seemed a rational assumption to make. This passage was talking about the Sabbath, which I contend is fulfilled in the model he's talking about, so this does not prove his point. It just seemed clear to me that he was adding a word, because he's changed the bible so many times in the past day or so in 'quoting' it to me. I accept that in this case I was wrong.

[Lysimachus]

Originally Posted By: Lysimachus

Remember, God is always at spiritual rest. "For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief." (Heb. 4:10,11)

And therein lies the point. God does not rest every Saturday. The Sabbath is not that eternal, unchanging and rigid a principle.

God did it once as an example for mankind. He showed them how it is done once, and now we must follow that example every Sabbath. Read the 4th commandment. It says so right there. It's plain and simple.

Just read the 4th commandment:

• Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. (Exodus 20:8-11)

No need to quibble, no need to skip, hop, or dance between the raindrops. No need to play peekaboo or ring around the rosy. No need to play theological hopscotch. There is only one need. To read the words plain and simple, in plain English, and do EXACTLY as it says.

There was this one very young girl who was raised in a Christian home that did not keep the Sabbath. Then one day someone showed her the 4th commandment, and she was blown away. Later when asked why she began to keep the Sabbath Holy, she would answer "because God said so!"

So simple. Out of the mouth of babes, thou hast perfected praise.

BibleOnly, the Lord is speaking to you in this forum. Do you perceive it? He's working on your heart, and He knows that you are having a hard time with what we are presenting to you. Just open up your heart all the way. The way of Christ requires a cross. Are you willing to lay down your opinions right now and pick up the cross? What a powerful asset for the cause of Christ you could be if you would take hold of this truth fully and completely.

You can do it BibleOnly, I know you can. You can live up to your nick-name even more fully yet!... Bible ONLY! :)

[BobRyan]

But that is faulty reasoning brother. With the help of God, I think eventually we will be able to help you see that this is a false way of looking at it, if you make up your mind to be open. The Sabbath was MADE for man. For what? For their rest. Not to do whatever they want. But to relieve them from the cares of this world. It is a symbol of our rest from sin. A symbol of rest from worldly cares of this earth. It was made for man's benefit--in the sense of their salvation benefit! It points forward to the salvific benefit the future new earth to come. It points backward to the old creation, and points forward the new creation. The Sabbath day is a "renewal" of the Christian rest experience for each week. Each week the Sabbath day is a symbol of our eternal rest in Christ.

[BobRyan]

If Jesus came to give us rest, what rest is that ? Is it the Sabbath ? If so, how did He give it to us ? If He gives us permanent rest, how is that compatible with needing a rest once a week ? If Jesus died to just keep things the same, what was the point ?

-------------------

Seems to me you did not answer this

[Lysimachus]

Concerning Luke 23:56 -- The binding nature of the Sabbath commandment is evident in Luke’s writing concerning the Sabbath day after Christ died:

Luke 23:56 - “And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day ACCORDING to the commandment.”

Now please pay careful attention to the following:

First of all, Luke emphasized that the keeping was “according to the commandment” AFTER the New Covenant had been ratified at the cross. Scripture teaches that the New Covenant was ratified “by the shedding of blood” (Matthew 26:28, Mark 14:24), not the resurrection. Hebrews 9:16, 17 and 22 also establish unequivocally, and unapologetically, that a covenant is in force ONLY AFTER the death of the testator. Not after the resurrection.

Secondly, Paul emphasized that once the New Covenant was in place, “no man can take away or add to the new covenant” (Galatians 3:15)

Thirdly, Luke wrote about these women of Galilee as "resting the Sabbath according to the commandment” 32 years after the event happened! So even according to Luke, the only Gentile gospel writer, recognized that the keeping of the Sabbath was indeed “according to the commandment” AFTER the New Covenant was ratified at the cross! If the Sabbath had been disannulled at the Cross, Luke would not have recognized it as being “according to the commandment”, since this day was after Christ had already shed His blood.

Fourthly, Paul said “nothing could be added” once the New Covenant was in place. Catholic and Evangelical Christians somehow fail to realize that Sunday came three days after the shedding of blood. So why are they “adding” significance to this day?

To summarize, these principles are in line with the three principles of the covenant which are as follows:

• (1) Before either of the two Covenants is put into effect, the conditions of the Covenants are made known (Ex. 24:1-8 );

• (2) Wherever there is a Covenant, the Covenant is sealed by the blood of the Testator (Heb. 9:16-22);

• (3) Once the Covenant has been sealed by the blood, nothing can be added or subtracted from the covenant (Psalms 89:34; Gal. 3:15)

  (Borrowed from The Seal of God & The Mark of the Beast by D.S. Farris, page 14)

I should not fail to mention that Christ was very clear when He instituted the Lord's Supper prior to His death (Luke 22:19; 1 Cor 11:24,25). But He did not even so much as "HINT" at instituting any Sunday sacredness or celebration in honor of His resurrection.

The same author above who lists the three principles of the covenants continues to mention that preceding the inauguration of the New Covenant, the Lord Himself came and applied the three principles. Jesus made known in the synoptic gospels what His New Covenant was to be through both word and deed. When Jesus went to the cross, He sealed the New Covenant with His blood. Whatever is—or is not—within the framework of the New Covenant had to be explained or done by Jesus before He died on the cross. Let us raise the question: Did Christ—through deed—keep Sunday before he went to the cross? No! Luke 4:16 says, “So He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read.” We agree with Canon Knox Little where he emphasizes: “It is certain that our Lord when on earth did observe Saturday, and did not observe Sunday. If they are consistent, as I have said, they must keep Saturday, not Sunday, as the day of rest” (Sacerdotalism (1894 ed.), 71, 89).

Let us ask another question: Did Christ—by word—mention Sunday or that the Sabbath would change? No! Christ never mentioned a new holy day. In fact Christ Himself explained in Matthew 5:17 – 19 that He did not come to do away with the Law; not a jot or iota would pass away in the law.

Therefore, this argument that the Sabbath and the 10 commandments were vanquished and abolished as "part" of the Old Covenant appears to have no foundation.

May we allow the Word of Living Truth to make of it will of us!

Marcos

[phkrause]

This can't get any clearer Lysimachus Just one excellent post.

[BibleOnly]

No Bible text says that the 4 commandment Sabbath is to be observed 7 days a week - in fact the Bible condemns the idea of not working at all during the week.

[BibleOnly]

Marcos, I answered most of this already, restating it won't change my response.

[BobRyan]

and the rest of the Sabbath is constant, not weekly, and more spiritual than natural.

By contrast God says "The Seventh day is the Sabbath" and that it was God that "Made it holy". Ex 20:11.

And God said "he who will not work - neither let him eat".

Thus those who pretend that they are keeping every day as a Holy Day of rest and worship are simply "gaming the point" for the sake of "saying nay" no matter the self-conflicted nature of their argument.

God Himself said "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL mankind come before Me to Worship".

in Christ,

Bob

[BibleOnly]

I can't read this and conclude that you are not living in the flesh and judging things in a natural way. Jesus said He came to give us rest, and He just meant the rest they already had, or He meant when He returns ? I don't think the Bible says that at all.

[12tribes]

If we love God it will be shown in what we do. If we have repented , turned to God, then it will be shown by receiving the baptism of repentance, an outward sign of what is within. If Christ is our sabbath then it will be shown in keeping the sabbath

[BibleOnly]

So in Acts 8, they knew they didn't have the Spirit because they didn't keep the Sabbath ?

[12tribes]

So in Acts 8, they knew they didn't have the Spirit because they didn't keep the Sabbath ?

Can you be more specific?

[BibleOnly]

Acts 8 records a group of baptised believers who did not have the Spirit. It assumes we know how they knew. It goes on to say when they did have the Spirit, Simon, someone used to trickery, offered money for the ability to give what he saw. So, this proves that there's such a thing as an unsaved, baptised believer ( as per Acts 19 ) and that the Spirit is given with physical evidence.

It also proves that we don't just all get different gifts from 1 Cor 12, they had faith, healing and miracles.

[BobRyan]

1. The Bible does not say in Acts 8 "they did not have the Spirit".

2. In John 3 Jesus said "pre-cross" that the Holy Spirit is key to every single pre-cross believer who ever was born again as per the ONE Gospel in all ages. Everyone since Adam on "had the Spirit" if they were born-again. Period.

3. In Matt 10 Jesus sent out the disciples with 1Cor 12 spiritual gifts - but not the gift of tongues.

4. In Acts 1 Jesus said for the disciples to wait for the promised gift of the Holy Spirit promised in John 14 and John 16. Even though they already had 1Cor 12 spiritual gifts given in Matt 10.

The pentecostal experience of Acts 2 - is not happening today - but will one day happen again.

in Christ,

Bob