What Must We Be And How?

[Gerr]

What does it mean to "live in sin" to you?

[John317]

It means to intentionally and deliberatly practice sin as a way of life. For instance, it includes making one's living from a sinful practice, such as prostitution. It also includes living with someone as a wife or husband without being married to that person.

[M. T. Cross]

It means to intentionally and deliberatly practice sin as a way of life. For instance, it includes making one's living from a sinful practice, such as prostitution. It also includes living with someone as a wife or husband without being married to that person.

Prostitution is NOT a way of life. It usually starts out as a matter of survival that becomes a death trap.

[Gerr]

And what does "perfected for all time" (ESV), "perfected forever" (NIV,KJV) mean to you?

Are you saying that Jesus' perfect sacrifice covers my past, but henceforth I'm now to work my way to heaven?

[John317]

Prostitution is NOT a way of life. It usually starts out as a matter of survival that becomes a death trap.

Prostitution is a practice. They do it repeatedly and without any intention of stopping, and there is no repentence.

There are many prostitutes-- both male and female-- who do it by choice and because they like it. It's a way to make money and fairly easy money. Of course, there are many others who are forced into it either by a ruthless pimp or by circumstances, to satisfy a drug habit, etc. But either way, it is sinful.

By "way of life" I mean they do it all the time, often many times a day.

[BibleOnly]

Originally Posted By: EmptyCross

Prostitution is NOT a way of life. It usually starts out as a matter of survival that becomes a death trap.

Prostitution is a practice. They do it repeatedly and without any intention of stopping, and there is no repentence.

There are many prostitutes-- both male and female-- who do it by choice and because they like it. It's a way to make money and fairly easy money. Of coruse, there are many others who are forced into it either by a pimp or by circumstances. But either way, it is sinful.

By "way of life" I mean they do it all the time, often many times a day.

I honestly don't think God cares if money changes hands or not, He cares about immorality and in that sense a prostitute is no different to the people who sleep around without making a profit. Just like God doesn't hate gay people more than the couples some churches turn a blind eye to when they cohabit without getting married.

And yes, I'd say more prostitutes do it because they have to, than because they like it or it's easy money. That sounds to me like a stereotype.

[John317]

I honestly don't think God cares if money changes hands or not, He cares about immorality and in that sense a prostitute is no different to the people who sleep around without making a profit. Just like God doesn't hate gay people more than the couples some churches turn a blind eye to when they cohabit without getting married.

You're right.

[Gibs]

Gerry and all who are SDA's.

Yes we truly are forgiven of all the sin we've committed in the past when coming in true repentance and the price is paid, forgiveness and then He tells you go sin no more. Now hear another voice you claim to love, EGW,

"The command, "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect," would never have been given, if every provision had not been made whereby we may become as perfect in our sphere as God is in his. We are to be ever advancing from light to a greater light, holding fast what we have already received, and praying for more. Thus we shall never be left in darkness". {RH, April 12, 1892 par. 10}

Is it works for any then to obey that command, "go sin no more"? No not so much for us as it is Christ in you that does the overcoming of Satan and the power to put out sin and not partake of it but shun it and actually dread it.

Our part is the full surrender of self and total death of self and then give our will to do His will and merge with Him and be one in Him and you are the victor.

You are not a safe subject for Him to take into the kingdom until He sees you are one with Him and will never fall back into sin and rebellion again.

For all who are not SDA's Paul hits it square with these two verses,

Ro 6:1 ¶ What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

Ro 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Question yourself, are you dead to sin? If not get it done then take up His indwelling and He in you is the Hope of Glory. Yes our only hope of Glory.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Thanks all for keeping this thread on topic.

[M. T. Cross]

Originally Posted By: EmptyCross

Prostitution is NOT a way of life. It usually starts out as a matter of survival that becomes a death trap.

Prostitution is a practice. They do it repeatedly and without any intention of stopping, and there is no repentence.

There are many prostitutes-- both male and female-- who do it by choice and because they like it. It's a way to make money and fairly easy money. Of course, there are many others who are forced into it either by a ruthless pimp or by circumstances, to satisfy a drug habit, etc. But either way, it is sinful.

By "way of life" I mean they do it all the time, often many times a day.

I would say a very extremly low percentage really do it because they actually want to.

[BibleOnly]

"For all who are not SDA's Paul hits it square with these two verses,

Ro 6:1 ¶ What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

Ro 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?"

I don't think that any Christian disagrees with this. I don't see anything SDA specific about this verse.

[Gibs]

BibleOnly,

Well it should be of course for all believers but I posted it for the non SDA's as I had given a SDA quote above and realizing all here are not of SDA persuasion.

None of the Bible is any denomination specific, all true ones of Him love it and follow it and Him only.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[M. T. Cross]

None of the Bible is any denomination specific, all true ones of Him love it and follow it and Him only.

Gibs, that may be one of the most Christian things I have seen here

[Gerr]

So if I miscalculate my tax return or tithe and shortchange the gov't or the church, I'm toast?

[phkrause]

So if I miscalculate my tax return or tithe and shortchange the gov't or the church, I'm toast?

An interesting thought Gerry. I get the distinct feeling from a few here that don't want anyone to quote an actual Prophet, but yet they seem to think that they are prophets. I think that in itself tells us something.

[Gerr]

If those who speak so freely of perfection in the flesh, could see things in the true light, they would recoil with horror from their presumptuous ideas. In showing the fallacy of their assumptions in regard to holy flesh, the Lord is seeking to prevent men and women from putting on His words a construction which leads to pollution of body, soul, and spirit. Let this phase of doctrine be carried a little further, and it will lead to the claim that its advocates cannot sin; that since they have holy flesh, their actions are all holy. What a door of temptation would thus be opened! {2SM 32.2}

White, E. G. (1958; 2002). Selected Messages From the Writings of Ellen G. White, Book 2; Selected Messages, Book 2 (32). Review and Herald Publishing Association.

[phkrause]

If those who speak so freely of perfection in the flesh, could see things in the true light, they would recoil with horror from their presumptuous ideas. In showing the fallacy of their assumptions in regard to holy flesh, the Lord is seeking to prevent men and women from putting on His words a construction which leads to pollution of body, soul, and spirit. Let this phase of doctrine be carried a little further, and it will lead to the claim that its advocates cannot sin; that since they have holy flesh, their actions are all holy. What a door of temptation would thus be opened! {2SM 32.2}

White, E. G. (1958; 2002). Selected Messages From the Writings of Ellen G. White, Book 2; Selected Messages, Book 2 (32). Review and Herald Publishing Association.

[BibleOnly]

It still troubles me that you need to quote someone who has been dead for a century, to establish ideas like this.

[John317]

Ellen G. White was a true prophet of God. You have no trouble quoting people who have been dead for 2000 years. SDAs have no touble quoting a true prophet, whether that prophet lived 4000 or 100 years ago.

[BibleOnly]

Well, that's OK. So long as we're clear that you worship someone other than Jesus and that vaulting this person to be the equal of a NT author can only distort your perception of God, even if you think that distortion is a sharper focus. When the people who started my church die, I still won't quote them as being equal to scripture.

[Dr. Rich]

Perhaps the words of Jesus do provide evidence for a specific church/corporate religious group when it comes to the real group that became the new KOH--after all, don't all of the points found in Matt. 25:1-13 and the 7 messages to them as found in Rev. 2 and 3, identify the Adventist church as this group? If not, then name any other group that would qualify?

And what difference does it make about who said or wrote anything after Jesus' death if they were not eyewitnesses of Jesus' ministry? Are not we instructed to follow ONLY Jesus and to hold fast to ONLY the words of Jesus (testimoy)?

[BibleOnly]

Well, you don't agree with the Adventists as a group, because, as a group, they believe the Bible. But, assuming they did fit the bill ( which they don't, FWIW ), why would that mean they were the ONLY ones who did ?

Where does it say to only follow Jesus' words ? Why did Jesus tell us the Spirit would be given after He died but you claim there's no reliable record of this happening ? Why did the early church fall so quickly that none of them left a record of following Jesus, or if they did, it did not endure ? Why is your god too weak to protect His message to our generation ?

[Dr. Rich]

Well, that's OK. So long as we're clear that you worship someone other than Jesus and that vaulting this person to be the equal of a NT author can only distort your perception of God, even if you think that distortion is a sharper focus. When the people who started my church die, I still won't quote them as being equal to scripture.

What is true 'scripture'? Jesus called the Law and the Prophets "Scripture" and interestingly, He never called His own words "scripture", as He called them the testimony of God. Reember, There was no such thing as "the bible" when both Jesus and Paul said what they did. So let's be honest about this issue too.

Also interestingly, what EGW (among others) said and wrote about the two witnesses found in Rev. 11 being the Old and New Testament was clearly wrong as there was no such thing as an old and new testament when John wrote Revelation 11 as what the angel from Jesus gave to him to write. So what John317 feels about her (his own opinion) being a true prophet clearly has some holes in his theory, kinda like Swiss Cheese.

I find it rather sad that all of those who have this mistaken understanding of the two witnesses will be the ones who will want to kill the true two witnesses because they will believe the words of EGW over them.

[Gibs]

Gerry & pkrause and all,

For sure not one of us ever had or can ever have "holy flesh" for one committed sin does away with that and cannot be reversed.

Don't you see she is handling an altogether different subject here, that was a false teaching that went around for awhile.

It has not a thing to do with us and to walk perfectly as Christ walked.

EGW used the words "overcome as Christ overcame" well over a hundred times in her writings,

"But even these figures fail to present the privilege of the believer's relation to Christ. Jesus said, "As the living Father hath sent Me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth Me, even he shall live by Me." As the Son of God lived by faith in the Father, so are we to live by faith in Christ. So fully was Jesus surrendered to the will of God that the Father alone appeared in His life. Although tempted in all points like as we are, He stood before the world untainted by the evil that surrounded Him. Thus we also are to overcome as Christ overcame.

Are you a follower of Christ? Then all that is written concerning the spiritual life is written for you, and may be attained through uniting yourself to Jesus. Is your zeal languishing? has your first love grown cold? Accept again of the proffered love of Christ. Eat of His flesh, drink of His blood, and you will become one with the Father and with the Son". {DA 389.5}

For me I will take my stand with that concept and not fight against it. Some scripture, Of He in you,

Joh 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

2Co 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Joh 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Joh 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

Joh 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Thanks to all for keeping this thread on topic.

[BibleOnly]

I think everyone knows when and how the Bible was collated. The point is, you don't believe God has any power to guide this process, regardless of who did it.

I don't think the two witnesses were the old and new testament, but the fact that it was written before they existed, proves nothing for your case. Many things that Peter wrote of had not yet happened, how else could the Bible refer to itself this way ?

Rev 11:3 And I will give [power] unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred [and] threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

Rev 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

Rev 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

How could this refer to two books that generally come as one ? So much for Ellen White....

[Gerr]

It still troubles me that you need to quote someone who has been dead for a century, to establish ideas like this.

That's for the benefit of Adventists. Now for you, I can give the Bible passage:

ESV | ‎Ro 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh, sold under sin.

ESV | ‎Ro 7:17 So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.

ESV | ‎Ro 7:20 Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.

ESV | ‎Ro 7:23 but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members.

As long as we are in this body/flesh, it will ALWAYS be indwelt by sin, but while sin remains, IT DOES NOT REIGN in the believer who abides in Christ.

NIV84 | ‎Ro 6:11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. ‎12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires.

Sin remains but it does not reign!

That's why we need glorification. Flesh & blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. We are changed into a body like His at His coming.