Who is the Anti-Christ? The Eighth King of Revelation 17!

[skyblue888]

It is true that in the end the papacy (first beast) rides upon another beast (image beast) from which she received power to bring all men under her control.

sky

[jamesonofthunder]

In Jesus name, and in deep humility I present a wonderful insight into this subject that I was lead to by the Holy Spirit a few minutes ago.

Please look at this logic...

what are 'heads' of state?

Wiki; A head of state is the individual that serves as the chief public representative of a monarchy, republic, federation, commonwealth or other kind of state. His or her role generally includes legitimizing the state and exercising the political powers, functions, and duties granted to the head of state in the country's constitution and laws...

Theocratic, ecclesiastical and other 'pious' Heads of State; (example)... Pope Benedict XVI,...

Since Antiquity, various dynasties—or individual rulers claimed to have received the right to rule by divine authority, such as a mandate of heaven.

In Christianity (Roman Catholicism, and in some cases continued by Protestant faiths): The Pope as Sovereign Pontiff, first, of the politically important Papal States; after the Italian unification ultimately just over Vatican City.

End quote...

The woman that rides the beast has a 'head' with a name written on it, the little horn has a mouth that speaks blasphemy.

The woman that rides the beast has a cup in her hand, full of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, or UN-confessed sins. Their sins go UN-confessed because they went to a man for the forgiveness.

The foundation of the visions from Daniel are the four kingdoms before Christ, the next visions given through John Builds off of Daniels visionary identification of pagan Rome, THEN shows three phases of the body of Rome after Christ. It shows perfect linearity and common sense. Before Christ...After Christ.

The transition point of the Christ factor there in Daniel chapter seven is between verse seven and eight.

The purpose of this is to narrow the time frame to identify what exactly could be sitting on that beast. You have to look at and identify the time frame of the foundation of the beasts of Rev 12, 13, and 17 in order to see what heads are on the beast. The founder of our denomination perfectly alluded to the fact that the seven heads and ten horns of these beasts prove they represent different phases of Rome, and the Holy Spirit agrees.

This is why James White wrote what he did in his first publication.

(This is prophecy study 101 here, so I hope you see I'm not making this up. in Jesus' name, amen)

Later visions of Daniel prove this flow of the visions by identifying this later power as the King of the North. Built off the earlier visions...it's a pattern.

There are also seven kings from seven hills.

Ask any group of school children in any town in Italy "what is the city of seven hills", and they would unanimously exclaim , "ROME".

The woman sits on many waters but her "headquarters" (pun intended) is in Rome.

[Twilight II]

A super majority of what our church believes was written by his hand and you think yourself more in tune with the messages from God?

This is interesting.

Do you realise you have commited a logical fallacy here?

Where did I claim I had superior insight to James White?

Your premise is founded on an untrue presupposition.

My argument has never been that I consider myself superior to anyone.

My argument has been the most basic of all protestant fundamental beliefs.

EVERYTHING is tested by scripture.

Whether it be James White or Ellen White herself.

This is the Christian principle upon which the church has been founded right from the very beginning...

That is the principle I am arguing.

I am not arguing superiority over anyone...

[12tribes]

Originally Posted By: jamesonofthunder

A super majority of what our church believes was written by his hand and you think yourself more in tune with the messages from God?

This is interesting.

Do you realise you have commited a logical fallacy here?

Where did I claim I had superior insight to James White?

Your premise is founded on an untrue presupposition.

My argument has never been that I consider myself superior to anyone.

My argument has been the most basic of all protestant fundamental beliefs.

EVERYTHING is tested by scripture.

Whether it be James White or Ellen White herself.

This is the Christian principle upon which the church has been founded right from the very beginning...

That is the principle I am arguing.

I am not arguing superiority over anyone...

That is right.If we are talking to people outside the SDA church we cannot use James and EGW To prove doctrine. Doctrine must be proved from the Bible

[Twilight II]

Originally Posted By: Twilight II

This is interesting.

Do you realise you have commited a logical fallacy here?

Where did I claim I had superior insight to James White?

Your premise is founded on an untrue presupposition.

My argument has never been that I consider myself superior to anyone.

My argument has been the most basic of all protestant fundamental beliefs.

EVERYTHING is tested by scripture.

Whether it be James White or Ellen White herself.

This is the Christian principle upon which the church has been founded right from the very beginning...

That is the principle I am arguing.

I am not arguing superiority over anyone...

That is right.If we are talking to people outside the SDA church we cannot use James and EGW To prove doctrine. Doctrine must be proved from the Bible

I would go further, we should not even do it amongst ourselves.

Ellen White counselled us that if we find something in her writings, we should go back, find it in the Bible and then present it from the Bible...

[jamesonofthunder]

Yes you are correct and this is a perfect statement...now test the Spirit of what is written and pray for and let the holy Spirit cause you to prove it. If God speaks to you in scripture you know where to prove it. That is the role of the brethren, for anyone who makes these claims.

You have to have the Borean response and test everything. Not just me.

[Twilight II]

Yes you are correct and this is a perfect statement...now test the Spirit of what is written and pray for and let the holy Spirit cause you to prove it. If God speaks to you in scripture you know where to prove it. That is the role of the brethren, for anyone who makes these claims.

You have to have the Borean response and test everything. Not just me.

You did not respond to my challenge of your false assertion and claim that "I" was claiming superiority in this issue?

[Lysimachus]

Originally Posted By: 12tribes

James are you saying that the seven heads of Rev 17 are 7 Popes since 1929? That is what I have been reading in your info, that is nothing new for non SDA teach that

Sorry 12 Tribes, could you clarify your question?

Yes the seven heads being the last seven popes is exactly what I have been told. The seven last leaders of the Papal government, then the Eighth King (Satan; the son of perdition) comes disguised as one of the previous seven popes and the world wanders after the beast under his leadership to perdition.

You didn't come up with this James. This interpretation is as old as the hills.

[jamesonofthunder]

You didn't come up with this James. This interpretation is as old as the hills.

Praise God, then it is of no private interpretation and I can give glory to God for sharing with me something hidden that I knew not until the vision, and then found out others had been lead there to, just as God lead me to the Sabbath and the SDA church, the true end time church of God.

Peace in Jesus' name.

[12tribes]

Originally Posted By: Lysimachus

You didn't come up with this James. This interpretation is as old as the hills.

Praise God, then it is of no private interpretation and I can give glory to God for sharing with me something hidden that I knew not until the vision, and then found out others had been lead there to, just as God lead me to the Sabbath and the SDA church, the true end time church of God.

Peace in Jesus' name.

But can you prove your theories about Rev 17 with the Bible? The Bible interprets itself

[jamesonofthunder]

But can you prove your theories about Rev 17 with the Bible? The Bible interprets itself

I believe the writings have more than enough scripture to support them. If you take the premise mixed with the supporting texts and expound upon them in your own studies, God will prove them by the Spirit of Remembrance drawing your mind to other texts that support them. This is how to test the Spirit.

You will be blessed if you take the challenge. Peace.

[Lysimachus]

I'm having a hard time ascertaining how the dragon of Revelation 12 can only be relating to Pagan Rome, when Ellen White clearly identifies the woman that fled into the Wilderness as the time during the Papal phase, the Waldenses. Revelation 12:13-17 is discussing the 1260 years, and the final persecution against God's saints as well.

Please help me understand this JamesOfThunder.

[jamesonofthunder]

I'm having a hard time ascertaining how the dragon of Revelation 12 can only be relating to Pagan Rome, when Ellen White clearly identifies the woman that fled into the Wilderness as the time during the Papal phase, the Waldenses. Revelation 12:13-17 is discussing the 1260 years, and the final persecution against God's saints as well.

Please help me understand this JamesOfThunder.

You are correct, Revelation uses a technique of 'repeat and amplify'. The reason elements of all three phases of the Roman beast is illustrated in each phase is to solidly identify that each beast is actually three different phases of the same beast...Rome.

[12tribes]

Revelation 17:8

(8) The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Revelation 11:7

(7) And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Revelation 17:10

(10) And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

Revelation 11:11

(11) And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

These verses connect together, first the beast from the bottomless pit then the short space

Quote:

“The beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.” The atheistical power that ruled in France during the Revolution and the Reign of Terror, did wage such a war against God and His holy word as the world had never witnessed. The worship of the Deity was abolished by the National Assembly. Bibles were collected and publicly burned with every possible manifestation of scorn. The law of God was trampled underfoot. The institutions of the Bible were abolished. The weekly rest day was set aside, and in its stead every tenth day was devoted to reveling and blasphemy. Baptism and the Communion were prohibited. And announcements posted conspicuously over the burial places declared death to be an eternal sleep. {GC 273.2}

[jamesonofthunder]

Originally Posted By: jamesonofthunder

Yes you are correct and this is a perfect statement...now test the Spirit of what is written and pray for and let the holy Spirit cause you to prove it. If God speaks to you in scripture you know where to prove it. That is the role of the brethren, for anyone who makes these claims.

You have to have the Borean response and test everything. Not just me.

You did not respond to my challenge of your false assertion and claim that "I" was claiming superiority in this issue?

So you do want to argue, I find this spirit all over this website. People like you are tearing our church apart. Good luck with that in a few months when you see these prophecies fulfilled and you are begging God for more time to prepare.

[jamesonofthunder]

That is the principle I am arguing.

I am not arguing superiority over anyone...

That is right.If we are talking to people outside the SDA church we cannot use James and EGW To prove doctrine. Doctrine must be proved from the Bible.

I would go further, we should not even do it amongst ourselves.

You are so wrong, and to come into this conversation loaded with your demands is argumentative.

I am a seventh Day Adventist, lead here by the Father and no man. I was not born into the church, but came here through severe trials and patience.

The sentiment that you force on to the conversation would obviously be better suited with other people of your beliefs, so why don't you and everyone who disagrees with what I know I have been lead to, by God, through scripture and the Spirit of Prophecy, just go else where and leave this post to believers in the Spirit of Prophecy. OK?

No more arguments, only rational reasoning together will be tolerated from now on. I will not answer the skeptics, only those who know what love is can be my Brother.

And for those who are here to cause disruption...The Father is watching what you are doing, and every evil intent is being recorded.

[Lysimachus]

JamesOfThunder,

Doesn't Ellen White speak of Satan transforming himself as an angel of light AFTER the close of probation?

It's really hard to fathom that probation would close prior to Pope Benedict the 16th's death.

I've never completely disqualified this interpretation as being "false", and I believe we should "wait and see", because prophecy is nailed only after it transpires, just like the 1260 years were not understood until 1798 and beyond, when expositors were able to look back in retrospect.

I also believe in the principle of dual, if not triple applications. We cannot ignore the "primary" applications of Revelation 17, but we should leave room of repetitive re-applications in the future. But not in every case.

[jamesonofthunder]

JamesOfThunder,

Doesn't Ellen White speak of Satan transforming himself as an angel of light AFTER the close of probation?

It's really hard to fathom that probation would close prior to Pope Benedict the 16th's death.

I've never disqualified this interpretation as "false", and I believe we should "wait and see", because prophecy is nailed only after it transpires, just like the 1260 years were not understood until 1798 and beyond, when expositors were able to look back in retrospect.

You are correct on the second point, the end of probation does not end until after the eighth king is revealed, not during this popes life. The eighth king goes "into Perdition" not the seventh.

So when Benedict dies, then Satan will be revealed as an angel of light to deceive the whole world, then after probation closes he will try to reveal himself as Jesus. This is specified in the writing above. Peace.

[skyblue888]

Originally Posted By: skyblue888

Rev.17:12 clearly states that the ten horns are ten kings. In the same verse we are told that these horns have received no kingdom as yet but will receive power as kings one hour with the beast. The churches of Protestantism do not have a kingdom as yet but when they shall receive power from the State they will receive a kingdom.

"Come here, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot that sitteth upon many waters; with whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication." Rev.17:1,2.

These kings are churches. Mrs. White cites Rev.17:1,2 and makes this comment:

"In the seventeenth of Revelation is foretold the destruction of all the churches who corrupt themselves by idolatrous devotion to the service of the papacy, those who have drunk of the winde of the wrath of her fornication." E.G. White, Bible Commentary, Vol.7,983.

Notice that in verse 2 it says "the kings of the earth". Mrs. White identifies these kings as churches who have not received a kingom yet but will receive power as kings one hour with the beast. And then she adds this:

"What is it that gives its kingdom to this power? Protestantism, a power which, while professing to have the temper and spirit of a lamb and to be allied to Heaven, speaks with the voice of a dragon. It is moved by a power from beneath." E.G. White, 7 B.C.983.

"These (churches) have one mind and shall give their power and strength unto the beast." Verse 13.

________________

Seven kings, 5 have fallen, one is, and one is yet to come. And there is also the eighth.

The point of reference is 1798 as given in verse 3 of the chapter.

By 1798 5 had fallen.

5.Papal Rome at the hand of Atheistic France

4.Pagan Rome at the hand of the barbarian tribes

3.Greece.

2.Medo-Persia

1.Babylon

In 1798 the one that is is Atheistic France

And the one that is yet to come after 1798 is Apostate Protestantism when it shall receive power from the State and shall speak as a dragon.

And the eighth which is of the seven is the papal power when her deadly wound is finally healed as Apostate protestantism shall give it its power.

sky

I agree with your assement of the kings Sky.

That fits in with Daniel.

Indeed twilight, it does.

sky

[ClubV12]

James, it is troubling when one claims to have had a vision that interprets scripture. Many folks make such claims. In Ellen White's time some 200 people claimed to be prophets, which is the main reason she herself made no such claim.

We see lots of folks on this forum who claim to be 100% sure they are led of the Holy Spirit in their interpretation. No amount of reason or logic will persaude them differently. Yet it is very clear in some cases they are pathetically wrong, in other cases the truth lays close to the path of error and it takes some time to figure it out. Many claim to be Seventh-day Adventist with extensive, decades, of bible study and schooled in the best Adventist Universities. And yet, their theology is not at all in line with the official positions and doctrines of the church.

As to your analysis on THIS thread and it's subject, I have no comment. But I would urge to rethink your "vision" testimony. Whether it is true or not, I won't decide, for now. But it certainly is a red warning flag that says, "Be careful of this guys theology".

[jamesonofthunder]

James, it is troubling when one claims to have had a vision that interprets scripture. Many folks make such claims. In Ellen White's time some 200 people claimed to be prophets, which is the main reason she herself made no such claim.

We see lots of folks on this forum who claim to be 100% sure they are led of the Holy Spirit in their interpretation. No amount of reason or logic will persaude them differently. Yet it is very clear in some cases they are pathetically wrong, in other cases the truth lays close to the path of error and it takes some time to figure it out. Many claim to be Seventh-day Adventist with extensive, decades, of bible study and schooled in the best Adventist Universities. And yet, their theology is not at all in line with the official positions and doctrines of the church.

As to your analysis on THIS thread and it's subject, I have no comment. But I would urge to rethink your "vision" testimony. Whether it is true or not, I won't decide, for now. But it certainly is a red warning flag that says, "Be careful of this guys theology".

Thank you for your thoughtful warning. All I can say is, the only way we will know if what I am warned to share is From the Father, is when the Eighth King is revealed. I am not impressed that this will be accepted by the masses (to keep me humbled), but this and the other four writings I have been given as a warning to the church have been and will be fulfilled, and then you will see who the real God is. He is planting the seed, so when it is fulfilled there will be no doubt who warned you.

This is the end time message. This is the sign of Jonah that leads to the loud cry. This is the Elijah Message. If Baal be god worship him. If my God be God...worship Him.

Read illustrated versions of these visions here...

The Red Heifers Bloody Sweat

Droplets of the Last Plagues are Falling

God showed Me the Wall in Jerusalem, Before it was Built

9/11 Was Foretold in Prophecy

Who is the Anti-Christ? The Eighth King of Revelation 17.

[jamesonofthunder]

Here is what the Spirit of Prophecy says we need to be prepared for, what the soon coming crisis will be about. Read this in context to what I have been warning about the Eighth King, the next pope. See if I am in harmony with this, and plant the seed for later.

"Those who would stand in the time of peril must understand the testimony of the Scriptures concerning the nature of man and the state of the dead, for in the near future many will be confronted by the spirits of devils personating beloved relatives or friends and declaring the most dangerous heresies. These visitants will appeal to our tenderest sympathies and will work miracles to sustain their pretensions. We must be prepared to withstand them with the Bible truth that the dead know not anything, and that they who thus appear are the spirits of devils. {SR 398.1}

Long has Satan been preparing for his final effort to deceive the world. The foundation of his work was laid by the assurance given to Eve in Eden, “Ye shall not surely die: ... in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.” Genesis 3:4, 5. Little by little he has prepared the way for his masterpiece of deception in the development of Spiritualism. He has not yet reached the full accomplishment of his designs; but it will be reached in the last remnant of time, and the world will be swept into the ranks of this delusion. They are fast being lulled into a fatal security, to be awakened only by the outpouring of the wrath of God. 399 {SR 398.2}

" Little by little he has prepared the way for his masterpiece of deception in the development of spiritualism. He has not yet reached the full accomplishment of his designs; but it will be reached in the last remnant of time. Says the prophet: “I saw three unclean spirits like frogs; ... they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.” Revelation 16:13, 14. Except those who are kept by the power of God, through faith in His word, the whole world will be swept into the ranks of this delusion. The people are fast being lulled to a fatal security, to be awakened only by the outpouring of the wrath of God. {DD 23.3}

Saith the Lord God: “Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place. And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.” Isaiah 28:17, 18. {DD 23.4}

Now tell me...does this not fit in perfect harmony with what I was inspired to write? God shows me visions and leads me to Him through Prophecy THEN I find the perfect Bible verse or Spirit of Prophecy quote to prove to my heart and others that He lead me. It is changing my life so powerfully I have seen miracles.

[jamesonofthunder]

No one in our church is repeating these quotes from the SOP.

WHY?

It is like the ministers are afraid to pronounce what they are not sure will literally happen.

Pretty soon it will be like the Dawn of the dead and who will be able to stand for the truth? Here am I, send me...

The second vision Mrs. White had about 9/11 was dated August 23, 1906, in which she stated;

‘In the night I was, I thought, in a room but not in my own house. I was in a city, where I knew not, and I heard explosion after explosion. I rose up quickly in bed, and saw from my window large balls of fire. Jetting out were sparks, in the form of arrows (see Picture; the moment this happened is when I had my vision), and buildings were being consumed, and in a very few minutes the entire block of buildings was falling and the screeching and mournful groans came distinctly to my ears. I cried out, in my raised position, to learn what was happening: “Where am I? And where are our family circle?” Then I awoke. But I could not tell where I was for I was in another place than home. I said, Oh Lord, where am I and what shall I do? It was a voice that spoke, "Be not afraid. Nothing shall harm you”.’

‘I was instructed that destruction hath gone forth upon cities. The word of the Lord will be fulfilled. Isaiah 29:19-24 was repeated. I dared not move, not knowing where I was. I cried unto the Lord, What does it mean? These representations of destruction were repeated. “Where am I?” "In scenes I have represented that which will be; but warn My people to cease from putting their trust in men who are not obedient to my warnings and who despise My reproof, for the day of the Lord is right upon the world when evidence shall be made sure. Those who have followed the voices that would turn things upside down will themselves be turned where they cannot see (turning and overturning; see EGW 1st New York vision), but will be as blind men” (like the men of Sodom just before its destruction).’

‘These words were given me from Isaiah 30: "Now go, write it before them in a table, and note it in a book, that it may be for the time to come for ever and ever: That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the Lord: Which say to the seers, “See not”; and to the prophets, “Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits”.” [isaiah 30:8-15 quoted.] I was instructed that light had been given me and that I had written under special light the Lord had imparted.’--Ms. 126, 1906. [Diary, August 23, 27, 1906.]

This prophecy was fulfilled in the time of John Paul II, the one who "is" alive during the time of the sixth king in Rev 17.

"Isaiah 30 was quoted". The whole chapter of Isaiah 30 is about the end times; the apostasy in the church, the turning away from the prophetic testimonies, a call to repentance and Sabbath, the out pouring of the latter rain and most notably it has this. Verse 25; “And there shall be upon every high mountain, and upon every high hill, rivers and streams of waters in the day of the great slaughter, when the towers fall”. It then ends with the coming of the Lord!

[jamesonofthunder]

The ten horns of Revelation 17, that are later said to be kings are also Demons impersonating People from the past that the leaders of the fallen churches idolize, but they are only in power for "one hour" which is two literal weeks. They call them saints and pray to them, or find their testimony of more worth than God's word. Yet those men are still in the grave while devils impersonate them. The living fallen churches give them their authority which they give to the beast and the Son of Perdition, Satan in the form of the sixth king resurrected.

[ClubV12]

Finding out who is right or wrong AFTER prophecy is fulfilled doesn't mean anything. The point is, HOW can one know IF the prophecy interpretation is accurate or not BEFORE it comes to fulfillment.

One principle we are counseled to follow is to bring it before the brethren for due consideration. If it be of the Lord, He will not reveal it to one man, it will become apparent to many. That many reject it, whatever truth it might be, is not a sign of it being worthy or not. Anymore than that idea that if many accept it, it must be truth. Truth doesn't care about the "numbers", it just is, it was before we got here, it will remain after we depart.

It would appear that these "visions" you speak of James and that your theology have not yet passed the test of the counsel of the brethren. I will wait upon the Lord for His clear right in regards to these matters.

I, for one, am certainly NOT ready to conclude the eigth Pope has any more significance in prophecy than any other Pope before or after him. The Twin Towers are often brought up as some kind of "fulfillment" of prophecy and accompanying Sister White quotes. I think folks make far to much of this event in tieing it to any specific SOP qoute or bible verse. This "new light", untested, not subject to the counsel of the brethren, being brought to us by one who claims to have "visions" becomes even more of a red warning flag.