The Two Great Issues of the Last Days.

[BobRyan]

Rev 13 says that the great "Signs and wonders" precede the image to the beast - and the mark of the beast.

The NSL that we keep predicting is of such harsh unique stringent nature - such as has not been implemented in any state in the U.S. in all of time. I think you would have to go back to the time of the colonies to get something anywhere near that level.

So what gets the U.S to move into such a historic unique position? According to Rev 13 it is "signs and wonders".

Hint: What "news" is now so up front and prominent on the internet that it totally out runs all other topics "bar none" on the web this year?

What was the "big event" caught on video in January 2011 over the dome of the rock, that filled the internet and made the news?

What was the "big event" at the National Press club in Sept 27 2010?

What is the "big news" in science today about the "goldilocks planets"?

Why is it that in 2008 the Vatican installed "Lucifer" in Arizona in their Mount Graham observatory?

Here we see them promoting evolutionism, denying intelligent design and claiming that the entire universe is "fallen" (and thus presumably open to rogue clashes, behaviors, wars, competition.) and subject to evolution as its origin and the origin of its inhabitants.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GCEl1-9LCw

What does Ellen White mean when she says "heathen deities will display themselves before the cities of the world"?

Who are those "Galactic Federation of Light" guys anyway?

in Christ,

Bob

[ClubV12]

Reading and interpreting Ellen White is no different than reading and interpreting the bible.

How many different Christian denominations interpret the bible in different ways?

How many different interpretations of Ellen White do we see from those who have separated themselves from the Church?

The principle is the same, the Baptist are sure of their interpretation, they are convinced they are led of the Holy Spirit.

So we conclude that Ellen White is the best commentary, I agree. IF SO, how is it possible so many professed Adventists use that commentary and come to so many different interpretations? Each so sure they are right? There is NO WAY they can ALL be right!!! How then are we to know WHO has the truth?

What evidence can you offer, Gib's, DrRich, Sky, James that YOUR interpretation is better, more accurate, more correct than the organized Seventh-day Adventist church intepretation?

Maybe the person with the most bold claims has the truth? James certainly makes some bold claims, dreams and visions! Should I base my decision for truth on the claims of DrRich, Gibs or any number of others or go with James?

In the end, I will stick with the counsel of the Brethren of the Seventh-day Adventist church as it concerns biblical and SOP interpretation. If YOUR version of truth scatters the body of believers, if it divides, it is because there is no light in it. Kellogg, Dr. Ford, many other "Adventists" (so called) had much to say that WAS truth, mixed with error. MIXED WITH ERROR is the key to discernment of truth.

[Gibs]

ClubV12,

I do not allow the leading men of any denomination to tell me what the Bible says nor do I need them. That is the Catholic way, only they can interpret it. That is waste water. EGW's writings need no interpretation, people taking some out of context and applying to make their view look substantial is the problem.

Don't be fooled, The Holy Spirit Only is the safe guide. The Holy Spirit is Only the safe guide in determining if the one behind the pulpit is ordained of God. If one don't have the Holy Spirit abiding within he no doubt will buy the merchandise true or false.

False guides abound everywhere, watch your step or you will be led into a pitfall.

That "strait" gate and narrow way keeps one from falling into them pits and He is the only one who lights that path. You must follow the light, He is the Light of the world. Quit following men.

He will give, on condition, to every man or woman His Spirit for the one and only safe guide and He promised He would be with us till the end of the world.

Mt 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[ClubV12]

"I do not allow the leading men of any denomination to tell me what the Bible says nor do I need them."

Then I can be assured you do not have the light.

You stand alone, no different than a 1,000 other men who also refuse to humble themselves to the counsel of the brethren. Your position is no different than many claim on this forum, that they are led of the Spirit and have need of nothing or anyone to correctly interpret the bible or the Spirit of Prophecy. Why should I accept YOUR personal, independant views and interpretation over anyone else who makes the same claim?

This is not how the Holy Spirit worked in the New Testament early church. This is not how the Holy Spirit worked in establishing the Adventist church. The truth was not given to one man or one woman in the case of Ellen White. In the New Testament it was given through the counsel of men, the first "General Conference" made up of representatives from around the world. At that time, the highest authority on earth, the chosen method through which God choose to deliver doctrine to the early believers. It is no different today, the General Conference in session, represented by men from around the world remains the highest authority on earth.

You are seriously mistaken in the concept of comparing this to the authority of the Catholic church. A mistake many make and will continue to make.

Ellen White herself declared the Testimonies would need interpretation!!!! And how were they to be interpreted? Just like the bible, by the Testimonies themselves with the counsel of the brethren.

[skyblue888]

"The soul that is yielded to Christ becomes His own fortress which He holds in a revolted world, and He intends that no authority shall be known in it but His own. A soul thus kept by the heavenly agencies is impregnable to the assaults of Satan." Desire of Ages,324.

Now this: "The church is God's fortress, His city of refuge, which He holds in a revolted world... From the beginning faithful souls have constituted the church on earth." A.A.11.

The church: the soul that is yielded to Christ, faithful souls.

This is the foundation that was laid at the 1901 General Conference, the foundation upon which God was to build His church. This is the principle upon which the soul that is yielded to Christ is built into an habitation of God through the Spirit through simple faith that daily applies to the all-sufficient merits of Christ's infinite sacrifice.

This is the corner stone that the builders rejected at the General Conference in 1903 when God was put aside and replaced by the devisings of men.

"The church--the soul that is yielded to Christ--is built upon Christ as its foundation; it is to obey Christ as its Head. It is not to depend upon man, or be controlled by man. Many claim that a position of trust in the church gives them authority to dictate what other men shall believe and what they shall do. This claim God does not sanction." Desire of Ages,414.

The order of things that God declared had to be changed: "They were determined to bring the individuals to their terms. They would rule or ruin." T.M.360.

Now, brother, sister, what is the church and the new order of things that the Lord has been calling for all these years?

sky

[ClubV12]

A correct and balanced interpretation of Ellen Whites work leaves no doubt about what constitutes Gods church on earth. The official, sanctioned, organized, "visible" church, that body of believers with a mission to deliver to the world the third angels message.

In interpreting the bible or the SOP what do people rely on?

Some, totally rely on themselves, their personal concept of what they feel is the Holy Spirit guiding them. The evidence is clear and has been for thousands of years, this approach results in a 1,000 different denominations and an endless variety of view points. There is no harmony, it is the most fundamental cause of babylon.

There is no doubt anyone studying the bible and the Testimonies will seek out additional sources for enlightment. A concordance, a commentary, the works of Ellen White, some counsel of men and of course the concept of being singularly able to discern and interpret from these sources the "truth". The end result? Same as above, babylon, a 1,000 different view points.

This is WHY God had an organized body of believers in the New Testament and why He has one today. All of heaven in is order and harmony, there is no singular interpretation of the rules. The created beings submit themselves one unto the other. This was the foundation of the early church, it is the foundation of the Adventist church today.

Some suggest that is "blindly following" man, not at all. Like the Bereans, we each need to individually understand our faith and give a reason for it. So what happens when YOU come up with a distinctly different view from the body of believers? Thats the red warning flag so many ignore!!! It is the spirit of PRIDE that leads to error. The inability to humble yourself to the idea that maybe, just maybe, the Brethren DO have it right! But so many reject that, choosing to "go it alone", giving up their anchor, removing themselves from the body of believers.

Such come to believe a lie, they fall under a delusion that cannot see or understand. They declare the "church" to be anyone and everyone who loves God and show contempt for organization, for order and harmony. They use bible verse and SOP to back up their claims, which are in fact, no different than any other denomination who has staked out their own singular position.

[Gibs]

ClubV12,

Now I must tell you the reason for the proliferation of beliefs in Chritianity. It is because there is too many masters, mostly of men and those of one known as the deceiver.

The head of His Church is Himself, the Holy Spirit and that is how He started off leading His Church in the beginning. He is the invisible head and noone else or it isn't His Church.

The members of His Spiritual Body His Church are visible but don't adhere to any denominational name. They are not recognized by the world but rather are derided.

His Church never fell, it didn't have to be raised up with a denominatioal name or any name man gives it. Then you see it is taken away from being His, but is of the leading men of it.

Mt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

He originated "Church", "Ekklesia", the called out ones. All who hear His Voice Come Out of Her My People obey and so HIS CHURCH has not fallen and never will. All the ones men start will and have fallen, deep now into the apostasy of the "new age theology" of salvation. That is the bad one to lose the most souls. Then there is many more of lesser importance but serious error.

His True Church is invisible to those who are not Spiritual Members but to those who are Spiritual Members see the FEW who are. These are in perfect harmony as there is only ONE HEAD and the members hear only those ordained of Him.

His sheep know his voice by the quality known as the TRUTH.

Joh 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[skyblue888]

Originally Posted By: Gibs

ClubV12,

EGW's writings are my Bible commentary, the best there is, bar none!

Amen.

When I post the dreams and visions our Heavenly Father has blessed me with, do you know how many differing theories I receive in response that all claim that they know I am wrong in my visions because it doesn't fit with their idea of what will happen in the last days. They make all these assumptions and argue against the Spirit of Prophecy.

Would everyone here like to know what is REALLY going to happen in the last days according to the Spirit of Prophecy?

How 'last day' is this?

"The saints must get a thorough understanding of present truth, which they will be obliged to maintain from the Scriptures. They must understand the state of the dead, for the spirits of devils will yet appear to them, professing to be beloved friends and relatives, who will declare to them that the Sabbath has been changed, also other unscriptural doctrines."—Early Writings, 87 (1854). {LDE 156.3}

Through the two great errors, the immortality of the soul and Sunday sacredness, Satan will bring the people under his deceptions. While the former lays the foundation of spiritualism, the latter creates a bond of sympathy with Rome.—The Great Controversy, 588 (1911). {LDE 157.2}

"The apostles, as personated by these lying spirits, are made to contradict what they wrote at the dictation of the Holy Spirit when on earth. They deny the divine origin of the Bible."—The Great Controversy, 557 (1911). {LDE 157.1}

'But the people of God will not be misled. The teachings of this false christ are not in accordance with the Scriptures. His blessing is pronounced upon the worshipers of the beast and his image, the very class upon whom the Bible declares that God’s unmingled wrath shall be poured out.'—The Great Controversy, 624, 625 (1911). {LDE 157.4}

This is the last great conflict before Jesus comes that will unite the world in error.

Here you go brothers, peace and God Speed,

"Those who would stand in the time of peril must understand the testimony of the Scriptures concerning the nature of man and the state of the dead, for in the near future many will be confronted by the spirits of devils personating beloved relatives or friends and declaring the most dangerous heresies. These visitants will appeal to our tenderest sympathies and will work miracles to sustain their pretensions. We must be prepared to withstand them with the Bible truth that the dead know not anything, and that they who thus appear are the spirits of devils." {SR 398.1}

"Satan has long been preparing for his final effort to deceive the world. The foundation of his work was laid by the assurance given to Eve in Eden: “Ye shall not surely die.” “In the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.” Genesis 3:4, 5. Little by little he has prepared the way for his masterpiece of deception in the development of spiritualism. He has not yet reached the full accomplishment of his designs; but it will be reached in the last remnant of time. Says the prophet: “I saw three unclean spirits like frogs; ... they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.” Revelation 16:13, 14. Except those who are kept by the power of God, through faith in His word, the whole world will be swept into the ranks of this delusion. The people are fast being lulled to a fatal security, to be awakened only by the outpouring of the wrath of God." {DD 23.3}

"Saith the Lord God: “Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place. And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.” Isaiah 28:17, 18. {DD 23.4}

Why does our church not teach this? It is forgotten that our last day prophet foretold what the last great event would be about, but our church is filled with so much theory about what will happen in the end they forget what is written.

The major event that will trouble the world in the last days, is the revealing of Satan as an angel of light, coming as the eighth King of Rev 17, the "son of Perdition", then immediately afterwards in Rev 18 is the "angel that cries with a mighty voice'.

The loud cry of Rev 18 begins by proclaiming that Babylon has become "Inhabited by demons".

When this pope, Benedict 16, who is the seventh since the healing of the head wound, dies; then Satan will come looking like the sixth king. The dead seemingly coming to life, and remember where you read this, then you will see the fulfillment. Seventh Day Adventists have been prepared for this message because we have been taught the true state of the dead.

"The Lord has given men time to discover the snare"

Peace in Jesus name amen.

Again no prob with the statements you quoted but then you add these words: The major event that will trouble the world in the last days, is the revealing of Satan as an angel of light, coming as the eighth King of Rev 17, the "son of Perdition", then immediately afterwards in Rev 18 is the "angel that cries with a mighty voice'.

Mrs. White herself tells us that Satan will impersonate Christ moments before the close of general probation, at the end of the loud cry, but you place this event before the loud cry!!!

sky

[Dr. Rich]

Club, Remember, Jesus prayed for unity, but this unity is not in the words found in the bible, but ONLY upon the words of Jesus given to us by His Eyewitnesses--as found John 14:26 and 17:17-22. When one reads those words, they do NOT have to rely upon someone else's comments, because Jesus prayed for them (verses 20-21) and one would believe that the Father heard this prayer and WILL answer it! Try it and see what happens!

[ClubV12]

"It is because there is too many masters, mostly of men and those of one known as the deceiver."

How many "masters" of theology do we see on THIS forum, Gibs? How many different people proclaim to have the truth? Inspired by the Holy Spirit, they alone have determined what is and isn't truth. Yes, you HAVE identified the problem exactly, to many masters, to many going it alone, to many voices crying, "Here I have the truth, don't listen to that other guy."

Who then are we to believe? Why should I accept YOUR theology over Dr. Rich? I am sure he believes he to is led of the Spirit, as many proclaim. I tell you the problem is SO wide spread when I hear someone claiming that they, and they alone have the truth, THAT in itself is a HUGE red warning flag!!

I will, have and will continue to search the scriptures for myself, to come to a balanced understanding. I will rely heavily on the SOP as my commentary, I do not put a lot of stock in "good Adventist" authors and books, though they have their place. I will search the writings of Ellen White, comparing Testimony to Testimony to grasp the deeper meanings of the word of God. I will also very seriously consider the counsel of the Brethren, those appointed leaders of God's church on earth. NOT the psuedo church many preach, the home church, the independant church, the off shoot, the individual claiming to be led of the Spirit. Not the one who comes claiming visions and dreams. PERHAPS there IS some light from these various sources? Then bring it into the light!!! Don't hide it! Don't keep it secret! Bring it to the appointed leaders, the brethren, in a humble spirit and let us consider the evidence.

When you leave the church and enter into a spirit of discord and scattering of Gods people, THAT is a SURE sign, there in no light in them. They have become the very babylon they preach against!

[Woody]

Quote:

When you leave the church and enter into a spirit of discord and scattering of Gods people, THAT is a SURE sign, there in no light in them. They have become the very babylon they preach against!

Well stated brother.

[Gibs]

ClubV12,

You don't understand, I left a denomination organized of men, not The Church. You see what you call the church is it really? If it was I couldn't find no fault in it. There is only one such Church and I Have Found It. Jesus Christ Organized it and it never fell, it will stand through thick and thin to the consumation. It's members only will hear those ordained of Him. Ordained of men means nothing. Most are well oiled orators of deception.

The reformation went the furthest is what I see in the SDA structure but never did come to total reform, it got so far and regression began faster than reform. She now is on the verge of returning to momma whom she came out of. There is not much left for her to let go of and she will be one with all the structures men call churches of the world.

The TRUE Church has ever from day one had only one master and organizier and ordainer of teachers of His Truth, His Way leading to eternal Life which He is to all who are His and Only His.

Today in what is called church there is a famine. How true the following verses,

2Ti 4:1 ¶ I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

The day is here and been upon us and gets worse by the day,

Am 8:11 ¶ Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:

Am 8:12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it.

Because of the "itching ears" HE has sent it and men are cooo ee d by sweet sounding lullaby’s they love to hear but it isn't from HIM.

The following still preach mostly true straight testimony, Walter Veith, Doug Batchelor and Kenny Shelton and probably Dennis Priebe. But any are to be taken to the Word and verified, trust no man!

I still hear Shelton and Batchelor on 3abn but Priebe I haven't gotten to hear in a while.

The Church is Jesus Christ's, He alone is it's Head, He alone is it's organizer and He alone Ordains it's preachers. His Spirit filled ones know who they are almost immediately.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Dr. Rich]

Quote:

When you leave the church and enter into a spirit of discord and scattering of Gods people, THAT is a SURE sign, there in no light in them. They have become the very babylon they preach against!

Well stated brother.

Leave what church? Mormon, Catholic or Baptist? Why do people have to even belong to a 'church' when the Kingdom of Heaven is made up of people from every nation, tongue, race, and probably religion? Jesus NEVER talked or said anything about any 'church' as the gospel He taught was the gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven.

[Woody]

Once you leave the church (and therefore - Ellen White) - you start making a theology of your own. And you are definitely on dangerous ground.

[Naomi]

Quote:

Club V12I will, have and will continue to search the scriptures for myself, to come to a balanced understanding. I will rely heavily on the SOP as my commentary, I do not put a lot of stock in "good Adventist" authors and books, though they have their place. I will search the writings of Ellen White, comparing Testimony to Testimony to grasp the deeper meanings of the word of God. I will also very seriously consider the counsel of the Brethren, those appointed leaders of God's church on earth. NOT the psuedo church many preach, the home church, the independant church, the off shoot, the individual claiming to be led of the Spirit. Not the one who comes claiming visions and dreams. PERHAPS there IS some light from these various sources? Then bring it into the light!!! Don't hide it! Don't keep it secret! Bring it to the appointed leaders, the brethren, in a humble spirit and let us consider the evidence.

[Dr. Rich]

Once you leave the church (and therefore - Ellen White) - you start making a theology of your own. And you are definitely on dangerous ground.

Hmmm? And all this time I thought Jesus taught that "dangerous ground" was the ground of sand found in Matt. 7:24-27 "And everyone who hears these (the words of Jesus) words of Mine, and does not ACT upon them, will be like a foolish man who built his house (belief) upon the sand, and the rain came and the floods came and the winds blew and burst against that house; and it fell, and GREAT was its fall!"

[jamesonofthunder]

Reading and interpreting Ellen White is no different than reading and interpreting the bible.

How many different Christian denominations interpret the bible in different ways?

How many different interpretations of Ellen White do we see from those who have separated themselves from the Church?

The principle is the same, the Baptist are sure of their interpretation, they are convinced they are led of the Holy Spirit.

So we conclude that Ellen White is the best commentary, I agree. IF SO, how is it possible so many professed Adventists use that commentary and come to so many different interpretations? Each so sure they are right? There is NO WAY they can ALL be right!!! How then are we to know WHO has the truth?

What evidence can you offer, Gib's, DrRich, Sky, James that YOUR interpretation is better, more accurate, more correct than the organized Seventh-day Adventist church intepretation?

This is a very good response. The only way to prove what I have received is first to test the subject and conclusions by scripture and the Spirit of Prophecy.

Secondly, the ultimate proof is when the prophetic interpretation has been fulfilled. I am so sure that this will happen soon.

But one thing you mentioned that you need to know the truth about...Mrs White was very clear that God gave her clues that would be used to interpret subjects that are not directly addressed in her writings. She calls it "present truth"

"God will move upon men in humble positions to declare the message of present truth. Many such will be seen hastening hither and thither, constrained by the Spirit of God to give the light to those in darkness. The truth is as a fire in their bones, filling them with a burning desire to enlighten those who sit in darkness. Many, even among the uneducated, will proclaim the word of the Lord. Children will be impelled by the Holy Spirit to go forth to declare the message of heaven. The Spirit will be poured out upon those who yield to His promptings. Casting off man’s binding rules and cautious movements, they will join the army of the Lord.—Testimonies for the Church 7:26, 27. {ChS 105.3}

And in other places it is called "new light"

Peter exhorts his brethren to “grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.” 2 Peter 3:18. When the people of God are growing in grace, they will be constantly obtaining a clearer understanding of His word. They will discern new light and beauty in its sacred truths. This has been true in the history of the church in all ages, and thus it will continue to the end. “The path of the righteous is as the light of dawn, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.” Proverbs 4:18, R.V., margin. {SC 112.2}

By faith we may look to the hereafter and grasp the pledge of God for a growth of intellect, the human faculties uniting with the divine, and every power of the soul being brought into direct contact with the Source of light. We may rejoice that all which has perplexed us in the providences of God will then be made plain, things hard to be understood will then find an explanation; and where our finite minds discovered only confusion and broken purposes, we shall see the most perfect and beautiful harmony. “Now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.” 1 Corinthians 13:12. {SC 112.3}

The point is that Mrs. White died over 100 years ago and there were many end time subjects that it appears were left for the 144,000 to figure out and the people of the end are promised to be a part of that light. That is why it is important to TEST all things claimed in to be light and to hold on to what is good and profitable. If you just discount what is shared you might be caught off guard when God gave you plenty of opportunities to accept His present truth.

[jamesonofthunder]

Mrs. White herself tells us that Satan will impersonate Christ moments before the close of general probation, at the end of the loud cry, but you place this event before the loud cry!!!

Sorry but you are wrong here...

Chapter 38—The Final Warning

“I saw another angel come down from heaven... And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils...” “And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, My people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.” Revelation 18:1, 2, 4.

This scripture points forward to a time when the announcement of the fall of Babylon, as made by the second angel of Revelation 14 (verse 8), is to be repeated...since that message was first given, in the summer of 1844.

OK, here you can see the beginning of Chapter 38 of the Great Controversy. Notice how it starts by the LOUD CRY pronouncing the second fall of Babylon including the fact that it is now inhabited by demons?

Now look at the next Chapter, 39.

Chapter 39—The Time of Trouble

“At that time shall Michael stand up, the great Prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, everyone that shall be found written in the book.” Daniel 12:1. {GC 613.1}

When the third angel’s message closes, mercy no longer pleads for the guilty inhabitants of the earth.

This is the end of probation correct?

Well if Satan comes comes in the form of Jesus before probation closes then why is this recorded after the end of probation...

As the crowning act in the great drama of deception, Satan himself will personate Christ... This is the strong, almost overmastering delusion. Like the Samaritans who were deceived by Simon Magus, the multitudes, from the least to the greatest, give heed to these sorceries, saying: This is “the great power of God.” Acts 8:10. {GC 624.2}

But the people of God will not be misled. The teachings of this false Christ are not in accordance with the Scriptures. His blessing is pronounced upon the worshipers of the beast and his image, the very class upon whom the Bible declares that God’s unmingled wrath shall be poured out. {GC 625.1}

And, furthermore, Satan is not permitted to counterfeit the manner of Christ’s advent. The Saviour has warned His people against deception upon this point, and has clearly foretold the manner of His second coming... This coming there is no possibility of counterfeiting. It will be universally known—witnessed by the whole world. {GC 625.2}

Only those who have been diligent students of the Scriptures and who have received the love of the truth will be shielded from the powerful delusion that takes the world captive. By the Bible testimony these will detect the deceiver in his disguise. To all the testing time will come. By the sifting of temptation the genuine Christian will be revealed. Are the people of God now so firmly established upon His word that they would not yield to the evidence of their senses? Would they, in such a crisis, cling to the Bible and the Bible only? Satan will, if possible, prevent them from obtaining a preparation to stand in that day. He will so arrange affairs as to hedge up their way, entangle them with earthly treasures, cause them to carry a heavy, wearisome burden, that their hearts may be overcharged with the cares of this life and the day of trial may come upon them as a thief. {GC 625.3}

Why would this be recorded AFTER the close of probation if you are correct in your assumption?

Peace...

[ClubV12]

I absolutely believe that new light will come, for the MOST PART, "new light" is a deeper understanding of "old light".

In other words, new light is always consistent with present light, and historical light. It never replaces, it enhances and builds on. That is one way to "test" new ideas, is it consistent with old ideas?

Ellen White, in all her works, never attempted to replace the bible, but always pointed back to it, built upon it.

[phkrause]

I absolutely believe that new light will come, for the MOST PART, "new light" is a deeper understanding of "old light".

In other words, new light is always consistent with present light, and historical light. It never replaces, it enhances and builds on. That is one way to "test" new ideas, is it consistent with old ideas?

Ellen White, in all her works, never attempted to replace the bible, but always pointed back to it, built upon it.

[Dr. Rich]

How funny! So tell me, what will you do with the "new light"? And how will you know it is really true?

What IF you diss the one who brings about this new light just as the Jews did with the words of Jesus? Does this new light have to agree with EGW to make it the real truth? Same question for the bible? Same question for the words of Jesus?

What if this new light is actually telling people to get back to the original words of Jesus and the OT for the truth?

[jamesonofthunder]

I absolutely believe that new light will come, for the MOST PART, "new light" is a deeper understanding of "old light".

In other words, new light is always consistent with present light, and historical light. It never replaces, it enhances and builds on. That is one way to "test" new ideas, is it consistent with old ideas?

Ellen White, in all her works, never attempted to replace the bible, but always pointed back to it, built upon it.

Perfect response. That is exactly what the Holy Spirit shows me all the time. He will NEVER contradict what He has said before. Only enhancing and completing.

Nice to meet a faithful servant.

[jamesonofthunder]

How funny! So tell me, what will you do with the "new light"? And how will you know it is really true?

What IF you diss the one who brings about this new light just as the Jews did with the words of Jesus? Does this new light have to agree with EGW to make it the real truth? Same question for the bible? Same question for the words of Jesus?

What if this new light is actually telling people to get back to the original words of Jesus and the OT for the truth?

John 16

7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth: It is expedient for you that I go away; for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I go, I will send him unto you.

8 And he, when he is come, will convict the world in respect of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9 of sin, because they believe not on me;

10 of righteousness, because I go to the Father, and ye behold me no more;

11 of judgment, because the prince of this world hath been judged.

12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he shall guide you into all the truth: for he shall not speak from himself; but what things soever he shall hear, these shall he speak: and he shall declare unto you the things that are to come.

14 He shall glorify me: for he shall take of mine, and shall declare it unto you.

15 All things whatsoever the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he taketh of mine, and shall declare it unto you.

16 A little while, and ye behold me no more; and again a little while, and ye shall see me.

[Dr. Rich]

Exactly! John 14:26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit whome the Father will send in my Name, She will teach you ALL things, and bring to your (eyewitness disciples only) rememberance all that I said to you."

Jesus had ample time to tell the disciples more after He rose and came back to them. John 20:21-22 shows that indeed, just as Jesus said, He breathed upon the disciples the Holy Spirit. But this was NOT the same event as the alleged event in Acts 2. Which one is correct?

Jesus also had ample time to tell John thru the angel about being saved by grace IF that was the truth--but you will never find that in the book of Revelation! Why? Paul said if even and angel from heaven presents a different gospel other that Pauls, that he would curse that angel. Well, what about the angel from heaven who gave John the good news of when and how Jesus was going to come again"? What do you do with that? You will never find anyplace in Revelation where anyone can be saved by grace!

I sit here and scratch my head wondering why people can't see the problem here! Is it that hard to see? Why does anyone feel that they need someone else to tell them a different gospel than what Jesus said and taught?

Perhaps Jesus had the same problem, for He did say that the world hated Him first and for His disciples to expect the same thing!

[jamesonofthunder]

I don't understand all this fear of the Spirit of Prophecy. It is to be one of the greatest gifts given for men until the end.

1 Corinthians 14;

1 Pursue love, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy. 2 For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit. 3 On the other hand, the one who prophesies speaks to people for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation. 4 The one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church. 5 Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be built up.