The Two Great Issues of the Last Days.

[jamesonofthunder]

Saul did witness Jesus, on the way to Damascus when his name was changed to Paul.

Acts 26:11 And punishing them oftentimes in all the synagogues, I strove to make them blaspheme; and being exceedingly mad against them, I persecuted them even unto foreign cities.

12 Whereupon as I journeyed to Damascus with the authority and commission of the chief priests,

13 at midday, O king, I saw on the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them that journeyed with me.

14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice saying unto me in the Hebrew language, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the goad.

15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.

16 But arise, and stand upon thy feet: for to this end have I appeared unto thee, to appoint thee a minister and a witness both of the things wherein thou hast seen me, and of the things wherein I will appear unto thee;

17 delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom I send thee,

18 to open their eyes, that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive remission of sins and an inheritance among them that are sanctified by faith in me.

19 Wherefore, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:

He also was a witness to the glory which surrounded Stephen before and as he was being stoned.

"As Stephen stood face to face with his judges to answer to the charge of blasphemy, a holy radiance shone upon his countenance, and “all that sat in the council, looking steadfastly on him, saw his face as it had been the face of an angel.” Many who beheld this light trembled and veiled their faces, but the stubborn unbelief and prejudice of the rulers did not waver." {AA 99.1}

[Dr. Rich]

And if you believe that ONE can testify to that truely then I have a bridge I would like to sell you. Now read the other two stories about the same event and then come back and tell me which of the three is the real truth?

[Dr. Rich]

By the way, I am not here to get anyone to belong to any church or to not be a SDA church member! "May that never be!" Clearly (to me) the Adventist church IS right now the Kingdom of Heaven as Jesus prophesied about in Matthew 24 and 25:1-13 and Rev. 3:1-6. It was also EGW and her husbands belief too as James White wrote a book about the Adventist Church being the Ten Virgins (I have that book)

Now read Rev. 3:4 and you will see that ONLY a "FEW" are going to be found to be 'ready' and these few are the 144,000 bond servants found in Rev. 1:1 and 14:5--they are blameless (no lie is found in their mouths).

I stand on my words of honor as God is my witness, that IF anyone anywere in the SDA church, or for that matter, anyone in the whole world, can find ONE thing that is incorrect with what I say and write here, then please be my guest and prove to me where I stand to be corrected, but you can ONLY do so by using the OT and the words of Jesus Christ given to us by His eyewitnesses as all other words are hearsay evidence and can't be used to prove anything truthful.

So call me names, make fun of me and testify falsely about me all you want as they first did the same thing to MY Lord and King, Jesus Christ.

[jamesonofthunder]

By the way, I am not here to get anyone to belong to any church or to not be a SDA church member! "May that never be!" Clearly (to me) the Adventist church IS right now the Kingdom of Heaven as Jesus prophesied about in Matthew 24 and 25:1-13 and Rev. 3:1-6. It was also EGW and her husbands belief too as James White wrote a book about the Adventist Church being the Ten Virgins (I have that book)

Now read Rev. 3:4 and you will see that ONLY a "FEW" are going to be found to be 'ready' and these few are the 144,000 bond servants found in Rev. 1:1 and 14:5--they are blameless (no lie is found in their mouths).

I stand on my words of honor as God is my witness, that IF anyone anywere in the SDA church, or for that matter, anyone in the whole world, can find ONE thing that is incorrect with what I say and write here, then please be my guest and prove to me where I stand to be corrected, but you can ONLY do so by using the OT and the words of Jesus Christ given to us by His eyewitnesses as all other words are hearsay evidence and can't be used to prove anything truthful.

So call me names, make fun of me and testify falsely about me all you want as they first did the same thing to MY Lord and King, Jesus Christ.

No one is calling you names, nor is anyone desiring to get into confrontation with you. What I believe the super majority of people want who would desire to be on a website such as this, is to be able to express views within the guidelines of being a Seventh Day Adventist believer in Christ and His Spirit of Prophecy. But what they get are you and your friends trying to discourage belief on these points.

Your own website discourages SDA belief, so why are you here and in our church? Who sent you? Never mind, I know who. And He's not welcome here.

[Gibs]

I notice this read when I come on the site, "clubadventist".

"Welcome with open arms fellow believers who don’t see things the way you do.

And don’t jump all over them every time they do or say something you don’t agree with

– even when it seems that they are strong on opinions but weak in the faith department.

Remember, they have their own history to deal with. Treat them gently. Romans 14.1: The Message"

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Dr. Rich]

I notice this read when I come on the site, "clubadventist".

"Welcome with open arms fellow believers who don’t see things the way you do.

And don’t jump all over them every time they do or say something you don’t agree with

– even when it seems that they are strong on opinions but weak in the faith department.

Remember, they have their own history to deal with. Treat them gently. Romans 14.1: The Message"

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Have you ever noticed how many people get involved when there is an issue comes up with several sides to it, but when everyone agrees with the issue, almost no one gets involved? Thanks for being on this forum Gibs as your right words are posted just at the right time showing all of us your spiritual insight!

[Dr. Rich]

And have you also noticed that when someone can't honestly debate or argue an issue with good evidence backing them up, they start attacking the 'messenger'?

[ClubV12]

You ever notice how irritating piety proclaiming internet trolls are?

:)

[Dr. Rich]

no

[jamesonofthunder]

You ever notice how irritating piety proclaiming internet trolls are?

I know with all my heart people like him are being sent by Satan to distract the true believers.

"Yet convincing as was this evidence of the certainty of the believers’ hope, there was another still more convincing in the witness of prophecy, through which the faith of all might be confirmed and securely anchored. “We have also,” Peter declared, “a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the daystar arise in your hearts: knowing this first, that no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.” {AA 534.3}

While exalting the “sure word of prophecy” as a safe guide in times of peril, the apostle solemnly warned the church against the torch of false prophecy, which would be uplifted by “false teachers,” who would privily bring in “damnable heresies, even denying the Lord.” These false teachers, arising in the church and accounted true by many of their brethren in the faith, the apostle compared to “wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved forever.” “The latter end is worse with them,” he declared, “than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.” {AA 535.1}

Looking down through the ages to the close of time, Peter was inspired to outline conditions that would exist in the world just prior to the second coming of Christ. “There shall come in the last days scoffers,” he wrote, “walking after their own lusts, and saying, Where is the promise of His coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.” But “when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them.” 1 Thessalonians 5:3. Not all, however, would be ensnared by the enemy’s devices. As the end of all things earthly should approach, there would be faithful ones able to discern the signs of the times. While a large number of professing believers would deny their faith by their works, there would be a remnant who would endure to the end. {AA 535.2}

[jamesonofthunder]

By Dr. Riches comprehension no one prior to the new testament would be accounted worthy of being in scripture because they weren't 'eye witnesses' to Jesus in the flesh.

Paul was the Apostle for the gentiles.

Without his teaching and correction to Peter we would all have to be circumcised to receive communion and as gentiles we would be considered second class citizens of heaven.

[wayfinder]

Saul did witness Jesus, on the way to Damascus when his name was changed to Paul.

Saul's name was never changed to Paul, he was known by both names. He had a Jewish name and a Greek name and he was known by both.

Acts 13:9 But Saul, who was also known as Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, fixed his gaze on him,

[LynnDel]

The unfortunate result of this trolling is that here it has been too successful at sidetracking us from serious discussion. When a person does not have the same basis as we do for belief, that is, Scripture, and expresses an opinion that states he will never have the same basis for belief, then there is no point in further discussing Bible topics with that person.

LD

[ClubV12]

Thats a good point LynnDel, it is a most often a complete waste of time trying to reason with those who have already adamantly stated their position and made it clear they will not change, no matter what.

So, why do we even engage these folks from time to time? A couple of reasons come to mind. #1 for the readers on this forum who need to see the diffenrent sides of the issues. #2 For me, a chance to sharpen my own skills on how to address error. Not just with biblical knowledge, but with spiritual knowledge as well. Obviously I fall short, but I AM learning! A time to be patient and soft, a time to be direct and forceful. A time to let it go, a time to unsheath the sword. The balance in all this is difficult to ascertain all the time.

[Dr. Rich]

By Dr. Riches comprehension no one prior to the new testament would be accounted worthy of being in scripture because they weren't 'eye witnesses' to Jesus in the flesh.

Paul was the Apostle for the gentiles.

Without his teaching and correction to Peter we would all have to be circumcised to receive communion and as gentiles we would be considered second class citizens of heaven.

1. Jesus verified the OT was the truth. The OT speaks for itself and what you wrote Jsot-about the OT is nonsense to me.

2. Matt. 28 has Jesus sending ALL of the disciples to ALL of the world, not just to the Jews.

3. Acts. 15:7 has Jesus sending PETER to the Gentiles and NOT Paul! What gives with this? Huh?

4. Why did Jesus send an angel to John to give him the Revelation IF He could have come to this world to give it in person? Could it be because Jesus said He was going to heaven and would NOT be back until we see Him in the clouds? Huh? Then IF Jesus had been the one to confront Saul on the way to Damascus Jesus would have lied about being in heaven till He comes back in the clouds. What do you say about this?

5. And why didn't Jesus have the angel tell John that "His grace was sufficent" and that now people could be saved by grace because they could become righteous by faith? Instead, the book of Revelation is all about Deeds and works and keeping ALL of the ten commandments and obeying everthing that Jesus said. I mean, Jesus had ample time to say these things to John thru the angel IF they were the truth, but instead told John it was good they tested those who called themselves apostles (Paul and Luke) and found that they were false. (Rev. 2:2) Who else do you know of in the New Testament who called themselves an apostle? Can you add 2+2=4?

Now then, I have supplied evidence supporting MY OWN belief of why I choose to follow only the words of Jesus. If you can answer the above questions with supporting evidence of why Paul never taught the same thing as Jesus, then be my guest.

[ClubV12]

The above questions are not asked in a spirit of learning Dr. Rich, as LynnDel noted, some things are just better left alone. Your questions most often fall into this category, it is useless to engage in an attempt to answer them.

[Dr. Rich]

Hmmm, isn't that the same thing the Jewish leaders said about Jesus' questions? Is it a sin to question anyone? Didn't John tell us to test the spirits and didn't God find it a good thing that 'they' put those who called themselves apostles to a test and found them to be false?

[John317]

You're misundersanding of Scripture is such that it's obvious there's no use discussing those questions with you, since it's already been tried for years already-- but to no avail. You are still asking the same questions, and making the same ridiculous statements about Paul's writings, that you made when you first came on the forum.

[Dr. Rich]

And I could say the same about you John317, but I won't. If you were testifing in court I would have your testimony thrown out.

Making fun of me and presenting false testimony about ME, is a way to keep from exposing the real truth that you can't answer my questions-right?

You used the word "scripture", can you tell me what Jesus considered "scripture" and what what Paul was talking about in 2ndTim. 3:15?

And you (no one else either) have never provided positive evidence to show that the whole bible we have today is the word of God or the inspired word of God. If your foundation is sandy, then what's going to happen to that house your building on it? If you can't handle my questions, then what is going to happen when you find things happening that do not agree with your belief?

[John317]

Making fun of me and presenting false testimony about ME,?

I am not making fun of you. What did I say about your beliefs that is false?

[Dr. Rich]

That I believe Peter was deceived by Satan. I do NOT believe that, as I said that the event described in Acts 2 probably did not happen because IF it did, then Peter would have had to be deceived by Satan and I seriously doubt that would happen to Peter! What you believe is not what believe and that is ok with me. I am not here to force you to believe in the words of Jesus. But it may appear to be that way sometimes as I am used to grilling people on the witness seat. I had to laugh at that last bit, because about 20 minutes ago I just had a retired judge just tell me he was glad he wasn't on the witness stand when he heard me grilling a guy in a case I had last week. Oh well, sorry about that if I came across like that.

[John317]

That I believe Peter was deceived by Satan.

Do you then reject what Rick Sterling and Dennis Neufeild wrote on pages 123, 124, 126 of the book, The Spirit of the Church? This is a book that you give out to people and have openly supported in the past. Maybe you've changed your mind.

Here's what the book says:

Quote:

What appears to have happened in the house where the disciples were staying was that after the violent windstorm, something like a tongue of fire appeared in the air above the disciples. This fire was cloven or split as the tongue of a serpent. Rather than resting on several disciples then spreading out onto the people gathered in the room (as we have been taught), this cloven tongue of fire went to each disciple in the room one after the other, moving from one individual to another until all twelve of the disciples had been touched by the cloven tongue. This alternate interpretation would fit well with the fact that Satan is not omnipresent and cannot be everywhere at the same time. If this was the true, omnipresent Holy Spirit, then it would seem likely that every one of the disciples would have received this manifestation at the same time.

"Therefore, a more credible translation of this verse could be:

(Acts 2: 3) And there appeared unto them a cloven tongue like as a fire, and it rested upon each of them in turn.

....it now appears that the cloven tongue of fire contained a demon spirit pretending to be the Holy Spirit of God... [God] could have revealed the spirit in that house for what it was-- a demon pretending to be the Holy Spirit-- but He did not.

On page 131 of the same book, about half way down the page, it says directly that Peter was deceived by Satan.

Are you now saying that you reject these statements in the book?

It should be noted that it's utterly impossible for Acts 2: 3 to be translated as "a cloven tongue." The Greek word that is here always translated "tongues," NEVER "a tongue," is, of course, a plural noun. It is the same word as occurs in verse 4 where it is translated "tongues," both, again, being plural nouns.

[Dr. Rich]

Again, if you missed my post--NO, I merely doubt if the event in Acts 2 happened because it makes not sense to me to have Jesus give the Holy Spirit twice to the disciples. I mean, what was wrong the first time as found in John 20:21-22? And being picky about things, all of the words found in Acts, which were written by Luke, would never be allowed to be used as evidence in courts today. Why? Some of it is clearly hearsay. But that does not make me say that I don't use or like Acts, I simply am picky at what I choose to believe is the real truth. You are also free to choose to believe what ever you want. In fact, I am glad that Paul's writings are in the NT because without them, there wouldn't be anything to compare the words of Jesus with. Also, without them I couldn't see that the prophecy about the wheat and tares would ever come true.

I did not write the book and do not agree with a few things written in it. Your facination with Acts 2:3 is interesting. Who really cares one way or the other John? What difference does it make my friend? I am just a student attempting to learn the real truth. Some things are just not worth arguing about and that is one of them. Another is the IJ. Who really knows the truth except God?

John, you and I have had lunch together and I would just as soon like to keep you as a friend. Personally, I believe the things we don't agree on now will someday soon be made known to show us what the real truth. Could be neither of us is right! That will be a kick in the pants!

[jamesonofthunder]

John 317, LynnDel, and ClubV12,

You are blessed in your knowledge of truth. Praise God there are those still trying to contend with this level of wickedness in our church.

I have been informed by Brothers that the heresy of the "Spirit of Troll" ministries will no longer be tolerated at Loma Linda University. PRAISE GOD, but what the heck took so long? How did these men get so deep into our church that they were allowed to transmit their heresy for so long from those hallowed grounds?

To say that the tongues of fire on Pentecost was from the devil, proves who these men are sent from.

Either they are truly deceived false prophets or a more maniacal plan is at work here. Could this be the work of the Catholic church to bring damnable heresy into our faith? How easy would it be to have a few men sitting at computers to spread deceit on our websites, or complete websites claiming to be Adventist but actually not.

Even the way this website censors true believers and lets the "spirit of troll" ministries have full sway is so questionable I am going to find out where their web address is located to find out if they are connected.

Blessings to the true believers in the Seventh Day Adventist end time church.

[Dr. Rich]

Hey "son", Never was any of my/our programs broadcasted from Loma Linda my friend. Besides who really cares anyway? If it is of God, then it will be of God. You are free to email me or call me anytime you like as many on this forum have done that. Just do a search in the net for "The Bible On Trial" and you will find me. None of us are hidding anything. Our church welcomes us with open arms. We all love our SDA church too!

By the way, I am always ready for critizism from anyone as long as they can prove fault by using the words of Jesus. Have you even tried to do that first? I will gladly repent when shown I have been wrong by the words of Jesus! Oh, and can you be so kind as to tell me the real reason why Jesus had to give the Holy Spirit TWICE to His disciples? And why do eyewitnesses have Jesus telling the disciples to go to Galilee (120 miles away) and not Jerusalem? Hmmm?

Your attitude reminds me of the bullies Jesus had to face. He did say something about this though, so bring it on!