miz3 Posted February 18, 2012 Posted February 18, 2012 Miz3, Don't you think it would have been a lot better for her had she been a man? She was the weakest of the weak so to speak. A woman in those days was unheard of to lead a church. She didn't have the power in it that U. Smith had it looks to me. If it hadn't been for many seeing she was sent of God she would have been put down and out. I am certain that she had an extremely "tough and weedy row to hoe". I understand two men were called before her and they refused and God then picked the "weakest of the weak" and sent her. 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. I agree that Ellen White had it much harder than if a man held her position. I don't agree that U. Smith was the power in doctrinal things. He may have had great influence but ultimately it was whether Ellen White agreed or not that tipped the scale.
Gibs Posted February 18, 2012 Posted February 18, 2012 Miz3, She totally was put out of any control after 1903. They made themselves king. She had turned it around in 1901 but no more after 1903, they again took it and run it their way and it has sped up in falling as time went on up to our now and is still pulling in more error, sad to say. 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. A Freeman In Jesus Christ
skyblue888 Posted February 18, 2012 Posted February 18, 2012 Miz3, She totally was put out of any control after 1903. They made themselves king. She had turned it around in 1901 but no more after 1903, they again took it and run it their way and it has sped up in falling as time went on up to our now and is still pulling in more error, sad to say. 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. That is the plain truth and it can be shown from the writings and the General Conference Bulletins of those years. sky "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
skyblue888 Posted February 18, 2012 Posted February 18, 2012 In 1907 she wrote, "The self-confident management of men has resulted in putting God aside and accepting the devisings of men. If you allow this (order of things) to continue, your faith will soon become extinct." T.M.481. This order of things is best described in the following quotations from Mrs. White from the same book: "Men have taken unfair advantage of those whom they supposed to be under their jurisdiction. They were determined to bring the individuals to their terms. They would rule or ruin. There will be no material change until a decided movement is made to bring in a different order of things." T.M.360. "The high-handed power that has developed as though position has made men gods makes me afraid and ought to cause fear. It is a curse wherever and by whomsoever it is exercised. This Lording it over God's heritage will create such a disgust of men's jurisdiction that a state of insubordination will result." 361. Who can deny that time has proven this to be exactly as she predicted? sky "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
ClubV12 Posted February 18, 2012 Author Posted February 18, 2012 Looks like the anti Adventists have taken over this thread. The same old tired message, the Church has fallen and the constant rhetoric of negative posts. Get a clue, the Church, that body of believers Ellen White refers to as the Seventh-day Adventist Church, is still here. Will still be here, will go through to the end. Despite the best efforts of those who are trying to scatter Gods people and call on Adventists to leave the body of believers.
Gibs Posted February 18, 2012 Posted February 18, 2012 ClubV12, God has His way of taking care of the situation and it looks to me He already has only you don't see it. The Remnant is the few, the very few in percentage these last days, a Remnant of the first and main one the gates of hell can never prevail against. Many are in the churches but they are "barking" witnesses. 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. A Freeman In Jesus Christ
ClubV12 Posted February 18, 2012 Author Posted February 18, 2012 Since you have rejected the doctrines of the "remnant Church" (Seventh-day Adventists) I must conclude, it is impossible for you to BE a part of any remnant thereof.
Gibs Posted February 18, 2012 Posted February 18, 2012 No, no Club, nothing is impossibe when we hold Christ within. You see He is my salvation not any church structure. And I know you don't believe the quote of what is the church so I won't trouble you with that one at this time. Lets just follow Him and Him only. And He only is the one that is fully trustworthy. 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. A Freeman In Jesus Christ
Lysimachus Posted February 19, 2012 Posted February 19, 2012 I looked through the 28 fundamental beliefs and couldn't find where it mentions the 1335 days. Some people belief the 2300 days are inseparable from the 1335 and others see no connection whatsoever but yet still believe the 1335 days are in the future. Are these the people some are seeking to kick out of the church? Trust me, people are not being disfellowshipped because they believe the 1260/1290/1335 time prophecies have a future application. It's several additional claims around it. When people start claiming the Latter Rain has been falling since 9/11, in contrary to the plain teachings of the SOP, you know they've really gone off the deep end. ~Lysimachus (Marcos S.) Author of article, Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation (see attachment for article) Currently writing a book, Vindicating the Historical School of Prophetic Interpretation Founder of the largest and fastest SDA Apologetics Group on Facebook, Seventh-Day Adventism - Defending the Pillars of the Faith Writer and apologetics contributor at Adventist Defense League Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation.pdf
Lysimachus Posted February 19, 2012 Posted February 19, 2012 Worship God not the SDA Church .org. You are right miz3, so long as your statement does not contain implications that this means giving up the central pillars which the Lord has established, and giving up the very gift that brought impetus to the movement--the gift of the Spirit of Prophecy manifested through that little old lady...that humble weak servant of God, who you have more than once revealed to despise in your heart. Ellen White agreed with your statement above. Did you know that? So it is a wonder how you despise her writings so much. ~Lysimachus (Marcos S.) Author of article, Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation (see attachment for article) Currently writing a book, Vindicating the Historical School of Prophetic Interpretation Founder of the largest and fastest SDA Apologetics Group on Facebook, Seventh-Day Adventism - Defending the Pillars of the Faith Writer and apologetics contributor at Adventist Defense League Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation.pdf
Dr. Rich Posted February 19, 2012 Posted February 19, 2012 Originally Posted By: miz3 Worship God not the SDA Church .org. You are right miz3, so long as your statement does not contain implications that this means giving up the central pillars which the Lord has established, and giving up the very gift that brought impetus to the movement--the gift of the Spirit of Prophecy manifested through that little old lady...that humble weak servant of God, who you have more than once revealed to despise in your heart. Ellen White agreed with your statement above. Did you know that? So it is a wonder how you despise her writings so much. Ha Ha Marcos, you preach not to give up the "central pillars" yet Paul chastized them in his day and said he never learned anything from them. The Spirit of Prophecy is NOT the red books by EGW. Please learn the truth from the words of Jesus as found in the book of revelation.
Dr. Rich Posted February 19, 2012 Posted February 19, 2012 Looks like the anti Adventists have taken over this thread. The same old tired message, the Church has fallen and the constant rhetoric of negative posts. Get a clue, the Church, that body of believers Ellen White refers to as the Seventh-day Adventist Church, is still here. Will still be here, will go through to the end. Despite the best efforts of those who are trying to scatter Gods people and call on Adventists to leave the body of believers. An "Adventist" is one who keeps all of the ten commandments and follows Jesus by abiding in His words. It really has NOTHING to do with being a card holding 'member' of any club or religious organization. (RE: read the reports on the budding early Adventists and why they chose the name.) The Adventists were warned by many of these early pioneers that if and when it 'organized' it would not take long for it to become controlled by men instead of God. Many of them suggested that IF that were to happen, it would just become another 'Catholic' type of organization. Check it out! By the way, "Truth" is singular and absolute.
Members phkrause Posted February 19, 2012 Members Posted February 19, 2012 Originally Posted By: miz3 Worship God not the SDA Church .org. You are right miz3, so long as your statement does not contain implications that this means giving up the central pillars which the Lord has established, and giving up the very gift that brought impetus to the movement--the gift of the Spirit of Prophecy manifested through that little old lady...that humble weak servant of God, who you have more than once revealed to despise in your heart. Ellen White agreed with your statement above. Did you know that? So it is a wonder how you despise her writings so much. was gonna say pretty much the same, that's pretty much been her message, read and study the Bible for yourselves. She always pointed us to the Bible. And gave us many insights if needed. phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Aliensanctuary Posted February 19, 2012 Posted February 19, 2012 Recall how those who followed Jesus by doing what he told them to do were sometimes disfellowshipped from the worship services by the ultra-conservative elite. The ultra-conservatives did not care about people, just their power to control them, and get their money. Churches are perfect for propagating error. Now, if one studied the scriptures independently, or with a few friends, they might arrive at some more likely conclusions than the denominational dogma. Unfortunately, Big Church changes slowly, if ever. The Parable of the Lamb and the Pigpen https://www.createspace.com/3401451
doug yowell Posted February 19, 2012 Posted February 19, 2012 Recall how those who followed Jesus by doing what he told them to do were sometimes disfellowshipped from the worship services by the ultra-conservative elite. The ultra-conservatives did not care about people, just their power to control them, and get their money. Churches are perfect for propagating error. Now, if one studied the scriptures independently, or with a few friends, they might arrive at some more likely conclusions than the denominational dogma. Unfortunately, Big Church changes slowly, if ever. Uh, better get your facts straight before going off on the ultra-conservatives,Alien.Just for the record the ultra-liberal elite were in power at the time of Jesus trial. In fact the former high priest and his son-in-law high priest were both ultra-liberals (they didn't even believe in angels). Seems that those who hate Jesus don't have any particular religious bent. Conservatives and liberals can find ways to pragmatically coexist.
ClubV12 Posted February 19, 2012 Author Posted February 19, 2012 The "Church Manual" in use at the time didn't contain many "guidelines", more like a thick book of specific rules and regulations that made even the Sabbath a burden. Every little detail was spelled out, it was an impossible path to walk. Now compare that to the "Church Manual" we have today. Being in harmony with the Church, walking that path is not difficult, it's not a burden, the yoke is easy. Studying with a few friends and then concluding that the Church the pioneers put together over a hundred years ago got it wrong is a gaurenteed fail. I'll compare what a few of my friends might think to what the pioneers did think. The pioneers who founded this Church, their work still stands, over a 100 years later. They got it right, any "changes" will build on that work, not replace it. In the same way the pioneers built on the work that came before them. They built on the principles Martin Luther based his faith on. They built on the work of William Miller. They built on the bible. The doctrines stand, the foundation is secure, the anchor holds fast. This 2520 crowd in Washington state is not building on the foundation layed before them, they have come up with a new foundation, new ideas, from a few friends sitting around throwing some ideas out. Their failure was not considering the counsel of the brethren, but chartering their own independant course. These ideas do not pass the test of "to the law and the testimony".
Gibs Posted February 19, 2012 Posted February 19, 2012 ClubV12, What was the statements in the old church manual on Sabbath keeping you find too binding. I see a looseness today that is not as it should be. More so in the younger Adventists. The main one I observe is the doing of ones own pleasures and we are not to. 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. A Freeman In Jesus Christ
ClubV12 Posted February 19, 2012 Author Posted February 19, 2012 I also see a "looseness" a lowering of the standards, a lessening of the piety among the faithful. And you point is what? That as a result we should leave the Church? Turn and run in the face of battle, leave your post, cowardice in the face of the enemy? Soldiers are shot for that on the battlefield in time of war.... The Church Manual stands fast, no lowering of the standard, it is based on the bible. That standard holds, regardless of what the people may do or may not be doing. Violate the Sabbath and risk being disfellowshipped, it's that simple.
Gibs Posted February 19, 2012 Posted February 19, 2012 CluV12, You have just run onto one who is not a coward and will and has not left the battlefield. I had asked you what the difference is between the old church manual and the new on Sabbath observance. I had pointed out I see a loosenes today. When I first came into the church it was far different. My grandfather was a SDA and he had his own printing setup and he printed out Sabbath school lessons for the little church at that time and what he advocated for keeping Sabbath was absolutely Biblical. We are not to seek our own pleasure in the Sabbath day but the time is to be spent in His Presence, contemplating, singing, study and praise and worship for the Holy Highest Righteous One. Resting Spiritually and physically having His Light shed upon us, preparing us to be strong for another week in the world but not of the world. Important too at the same time He puts His mark upon us that angels see and not man. 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. A Freeman In Jesus Christ
Dr. Rich Posted February 19, 2012 Posted February 19, 2012 Gibs, I understand where you are coming from, but the 4th commandment does not say anything about worship--it states NOT to do the work you are doing on the other 6 days for your own 'good' pleasure. That word "pleasure" has never changed--it has NOTHING to do with 'feeling good' and doing things that are FUN on Sabbath! The Sabbath is a day that is to be kept HOLY--meaning set apart from the other 6 days of work.
ClubV12 Posted February 19, 2012 Author Posted February 19, 2012 The Adventist view on the Sabbath has not changed from your Grandpa's time or before Gibs. It remains, unchanged.
Moderators John317 Posted February 19, 2012 Moderators Posted February 19, 2012 .... the 4th commandment does not say anything about worship--it states NOT to do the work you are doing on the other 6 days for your own 'good' pleasure. And when we obey God's commandment regarding the keeping of the Sabbath as a holy day, what are we doing? Isn't the act of obeying God the very essence of worship? Isaiah 58: 13 certainly shows the relationship between Sabbath-keeping and worship: Isaiah 58:13, 14-- "If you turn back your foot from the Sabbath, from doing your pleasure on my holy day, and call the Sabbath a delight and the holy day of the Lord honorable; if you honor Him, not going your own ways, or seeking your own pleasure, or talking idly; [14]then you shall take delight in the Lord, and I will make you ride on the heights of the earth; I will feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father, for the mouth of the Lord has spoken." Also Rev. 14: 7-- And he said with a loud voice, "Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come, and worship him who made heaven and earth, the sea and the springs of water." NOTE: We worship the One who made heaven and earth by-- among other things-- keeping the Sabbath. Acts 17:23-25 For as I passed along and observed the objects of your worship, I found also an altar with this inscription, 'To the unknown god.' What therefore you worship as unknown, this I proclaim to you. [24] The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in temples made by man, [25] nor is he worshipped by human hands, as though he needed anything, since he himself gives to all mankind life and breath and everything. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
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