Is the doctrine of the Trinity logically incoherent?

[Jonah]

Like the law of non-contradiction?

many

[Lysimachus]

1 + 1 + 1 = 1 is not logical, yet it's the truth about the Trinity.

Gerry,

Actually, I would be very careful about this brother. I have had a motto that I use as my ultimate weapon against the evangelical/dispensational world:

That is....

"Truth always makes sense. If it doesn't make sense, it's time to go BACK to the drawing board."

If Adventists hold to the notion that a truth is illogical, then we just gave our enemies ammo to believe in an UNTOLD number of illogical fallacies riddled throughout their perfidious ideological teachings, such as Dispensationalism.

So this sentence here does not sit well with my stomach, at all. Such a notion will disarm you against the enemies of God's people. The beauty of the Adventist message is that it "makes sense", while much of Evangelical and Catholic teaching does "not make sense".

The same line of reasoning you just used is the line of reasoning the evangelicals use to push their "eternal torment" teaching, that although it doesn't make sense to burn people for eternity, we must just trust that it is the truth.

It makes no sense for a just and loving God to punish the wicked for as long as He shall last.

Thus, if it doesn't make sense, it's time to go back to the drawing board.

Are you willing to give the evangelical world ammunition for subscribing to their erroneous teachings?

[Woody]

lOGIC is far over rated. At least with these sin affected and degraded minds. My mind aint worth a hill of beans.

[Woody]

Now - if anyone puts up one of those clapping thingys - you'll be in big trouble.

[Woody]

there are many mysteries about God . That's where faith comes in to believe in scripture as it reads.

[Lysimachus]

Mysteries don't always necessarily = illogical.

[Woody]

no - they don't need to either

[Jonah]

Excellent post, Lys!

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

1 + 1 + 1 = 1 is not logical, yet it's the truth about the Trinity.

Gerry,

Actually, I would be very careful about this brother. I have had a motto that I use as my ultimate weapon against the evangelical/dispensational world:

That is....

"Truth always makes sense. If it doesn't make sense, it's time to go BACK to the drawing board."

If Adventists hold to the notion that a truth is illogical, then we just gave our enemies ammo to believe in an UNTOLD number of illogical fallacies riddled throughout their perfidious ideological teachings, such as Dispensationalism.

So this sentence here does not sit well with my stomach, at all. Such a notion will disarm you against the enemies of God's people. The beauty of the Adventist message is that it "makes sense", while much of Evangelical and Catholic teaching does "not make sense".

The same line of reasoning you just used is the line of reasoning the evangelicals use to push their "eternal torment" teaching, that although it doesn't make sense to burn people for eternity, we must just trust that it is the truth.

It makes no sense for a just and loving God to punish the wicked for as long as He shall last.

Thus, if it doesn't make sense, it's time to go back to the drawing board.

Are you willing to give the evangelical world ammunition for subscribing to their erroneous teachings?

[Jonah]

Logic does not depend on the condition of our minds. 1+1+1=3 no matter how crazy or dumb any of us might be.

You really don't know the implications of what you are suggesting.

lOGIC is far over rated. At least with these sin affected and degraded minds. My mind aint worth a hill of beans.

[Woody]

Logic does not depend on the condition of our minds. 1+1+1=3 no matter how crazy or dumb any of us might be.

You really don't know the implications of what you are suggesting.

Originally Posted By: Woody

lOGIC is far over rated. At least with these sin affected and degraded minds. My mind aint worth a hill of beans.

I'm prepared for your implications. Bring them on.

[Jonah]

Well, for starters, do you reject the Law of Non-contradiction?

I'm prepared for your implications. Bring them on.

[Woody]

I'll wait for the implications you said I had due.

[Jonah]

Well, if you're prepared to throw logic out the window, then you must also be prepared to accept any logically incoherent idea.

[Jonah]

So, you do you reject the law of non-contradiction?

[Gerr]

Gerry,

Actually, I would be very careful about this brother. I have had a motto that I use as my ultimate weapon against the evangelical/dispensational world:

That is....

"Truth always makes sense. If it doesn't make sense, it's time to go BACK to the drawing board."

If Adventists hold to the notion that a truth is illogical, then we just gave our enemies ammo to believe in an UNTOLD number of illogical fallacies riddled throughout their perfidious ideological teachings, such as Dispensationalism.

Did I every say that ALL truths are illogical and that all things logical are untrue?

Here's another one: ‎KJV 1900

‎‎Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Try presenting this kind of evidence to a court of law.

And another: Is it logical that the death of One Righteous Man should pay for ALL the guilty persons on this planet?

Quote:

So this sentence here does not sit well with my stomach, at all.

The premise on the OP did not set will with my stomach either.

Quote:

Such a notion will disarm you against the enemies of God's people. The beauty of the Adventist message is that it "makes sense", while much of Evangelical and Catholic teaching does "not make sense".

The SDA system of truths is the most beautiful and Biblically consistent of all the Christian teachings I have seen so far.

[John317]

..."Truth always makes sense. If it doesn't make sense, it's time to go BACK to the drawing board."

We don't walk by sight (logic) but by faith. Sometimes the truth doesn't seem to make sense to our minds, but that's because we often lack full knowledge of the truth. The Trinity is a good example. The Trinity doctrine makes good sense to me, but I realize that many others say it doesn't make sense to them. Do we believe the resurrection and the death of Christ for sinners because it makes sense-- or because the Bible says it's the truth?

If we believe God only when our minds tell us that He makes sense, we are really only believing Him when we agree with Him. That's not trusting him.

But what doesn't make "sense" about the Trinity doctrine as SDAs and as EGW teach it?

For most people, the thing that doesn't make sense is how anti-Trinitarians convey the doctrine. For instance, they refer to "a three-headed monster" or "one God in three Gods." Of course that is not what Trinitarians believe and teach. We worship one God who manifests Himself (or Themselves) as three divine Beings: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. They are one essence, or one substance. Ellen White describes them as "the great Threefold power," and as "the three holiest beings in heaven." Elsewhere she says that they are like the disciples in being "one in purpose, in mind, and in character, but not in person. It is thus that God and Christ are one." 8 T 269.

Believers shouldn't be disturbed by the fact that there are things about God and the Godhead that they don't understand. After all, God is infinite and our minds are finite. We will never see the end of learning new things about God, even in eternity.

[John317]

The SDA system of truths is the most beautiful and Biblically consistent of all the Christian teachings I have seen so far.

I think so.

[Windsor]

We can all agree that God is eternal, omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, far far far above everything that exists. Yet, I still cannot comprehend why so many people here are so adamant that they know exactly how the Godhead is made up. To not have their particular belief on the Trinity pretty much damns everyone else to hell. Yet, everyone here will die, is relatively powerless, knows only in part, can be in only one place at a time and is far far far below God. Satan Himself, who spoke and walked with Jesus for thousands and possibly even millions of years and was the covering cherub did not really understand the nature of the Godhead and yet CA is full of geniuses who have figured it out over a few decades? Wow!

[Gibs]

That would be fine Windsor but it looks like to me what He reveals to us is for us and to be understood by us.

Lu 10:22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.

Any who will read and believe His Words on this subject have no trouble to get it right, clear and easily understood.

It's not men's way, same as salvation is not men's way but His Way and His only.

Has it ever been safe to follow the majority in anything that pertains to the truth of things of Christian teaching?

Plain and simple, Biblically there is no trinity. It is an invention of men in the area of 300 yrs. since Christ.

It is just like Sunday for the Sabbath day, men whip and twist up smooth well oiled oratations of deception.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[John317]

We can all agree that God is eternal, omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, far far far above everything that exists. Yet, I still cannot comprehend why so many people here are so adamant that they know exactly how the Godhead is made up. !

No one knows exactly how the Godhead is "made up." We don't need to know exactly how God is made up in order to know and believe what the Bible teaches about God/the Godhead:

1) There is only "one God." (This "one" is not the mathematical "1" but the "one" of unity, just as Adam and Eve were "one flesh" even though they are two distinct persons.)

2) The Father is God.

3) Christ is God.

4) The Holy Spirit is God.

Christ is not one and the same Person as the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit is Christ's personal representative, "another paraclate" of the same kind as Christ was. Since Christ is a personal divine being, we may be sure the Holy Spirit is also a personal divine being. The Holy Spirit is the Third Person of the Godhead. That can only mean that there is a First and a Second Person of the Godhead.

Ellen White defines the "eternal Godhead" as consisting of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and she makes it clear that the Holy Spirit is able to feel pity and to make decisions, etc. CH 222.

There's really no reason to make it any more complex than that.

[skyblue888]

Well put John.

I will only add this:

Gibs, when you say that there is no such thing as a triune God, it is what it is, a mere opinion, a private one at that. Let us be careful not to sound more inspired than inspiration. Both the Scriptures and the SoP state the truth. They speak of the heavenly Trio.

"There are Three that bear record in Heaven, the Father, the Word (Christ), and the Holy Spirit; and these Three are one." 1 John 5:7.

We have no problems admitting that the Scriptures declare Christ to be God in the highest sense but we do have a problem accepting that the Scriptures also teach that the Holy Spirit is a divine Person and God in the highest sense just as Christ is or the Father is.

"The Father is all the fullness of the Godhead bodily, and is invisible to mortal sight. The Son is all the fullness of the Godhead manifested... The Comforter that Christ promised to send after He ascended to Heaven, is the Spirit in all the fullness of the Godhead, making manifest the power of divine grace to all who receive and believe in Christ as a personal Saviour. There are three living persons of the heavenly trio." Evangelism,614-5.

sky

[Woody]

Quote:

Gibs, when you say that there is no such thing as a triune God, it is what it is, a mere opinion, a private one at that. Let us be careful not to sound more inspired than inspiration. Both the Scriptures and the SoP state the truth. They speak of the heavenly Trio

Good Point Sky,

Always best to stick with scripture rather than private opinion.

[skyblue888]

Quote:

Gibs, when you say that there is no such thing as a triune God, it is what it is, a mere opinion, a private one at that. Let us be careful not to sound more inspired than inspiration. Both the Scriptures and the SoP state the truth. They speak of the heavenly Trio

Good Point Sky,

Always best to stick with scripture rather than private opinion.

Glad we agree on this Woody.

sky

[Gibs]

Woody, Sky,

I have posted the scriptures that prove it many times here, but you for a large share ignore them and they don't ring up in your computers.

The Holy Spirit is God, Yahweh, and Yahweh was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself. Now in Christ the body prepared there is another person involved so you could say two persons, but still the one and only God is involved.

Must I post the scriptures again? No I will not, please just go back and read them.

I think I may at some point post about the Godhead in a Title "Who Art Thou". I've had this writen up around 20 yrs. now.

No trinity, no trinity, you must sell elsewhere, no buy here, you be wasting your time.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gibs]

Jonah is right on logic, true logic and wisdom and understanding only comes from Yahweh who alone is the fountain and foundation of it all. So you all better be careful that your logic runs with the true from Yahweh. I think an old hillbilly knows 3 ain't one but knows the 3 representations of Him are of The But One.

Ya all would need Biblical truth to prove that isn't Yahweh's logic too!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.