Are We Redeemed?

[Woody]

Let's see how long this one will last before deleted.

Don't let the Devil win.

Proclaim God's goodness to us ---

[LifeHiscost]

Let's see how long this one will last before deleted.

Don't let the Devil win.

Proclaim God's goodness to us ---

So it isn't just me.

Can we ignore seemingly clearly expressed counsel from the Word of God as revealed in the Scriptures, especially re: our behavior, and still expect logically to be accepted wholeheartedly by the body of believers, as one who is interested in the spiritual welfare of those around us?

IOW, can we be redeemed while pursueing behavior purposely contrary to the revelation of God's character?

God blesses!

[Gibs]

Very Good Question Woody that all should in all seriousness consider.

One thing I know for sure, ALL CAN BE! Are the rquirments hard to meet it that it is ours? Again NO!

Now we've come up to a hard question to ponder out. What is that?

It's what Jesus said and if anyone would know it would be Him and we can trust it as it is from Him!

Mt 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

Mt 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

2Pe 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

2Pe 1:16 ¶ For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

Not hard sayings there but admonition to check out our way.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

Quote:

IOW, can we be redeemed while pursueing behavior purposely contrary to the revelation of God's character?

Good Question LHC.

And the answer is YES. Praise B the Lord.

FOr I certainly don't deserve His Grace.

But it is GIVEN to me despite that.

Praise B the Lord

[Gail]

Here is another wrench:

Why is it that some people are so concerned about the performance or motives of others as to deny their declaration of praise for God's redemption?

It could happen on the other side, too- people pointing fingers reminding people of their sins.

I would love to see more talk of the power of God to redeem as well as forgive and cleanse Less attention to sin and more to God is what I mean.

[Woody]

Quote:

Less attention to sin and more to God is what I mean.

Exactly Gail ....

Praise B the Lord

[Gibs]

Gail,

We all have great need to praise Him for the plan He has laid that every last one of us could be redeemed.

But all men will not! They lay a different plan as they hold with Satan, saying none can keep God's law!

The Question of this thread is "Are we Redeemed?" Well really not just because we say so.

He has made an easy way for all to come and be redeemed there is no question there.

Let us discuss how you see it is that truly one is redeemed. Will there be apparent fruit? Will the supplicant be changed? Does the supplicant have a new life? Are His Commandments greivous now?

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

Let the Redeemed of the Lord SAY so.

I am not afraid to proclaim God's goodness to me.

I pray none of you are.

Let's get on with the business of PRAISIN' God.

[Gail]

I'm not disagreeing with you, Gibs. All I'm saying is that it can be discouraging to have someone praise God and another shoot him down for it. Lord knows we have enough of that in the secular world. Hard to have that also among our own brethren.

Aim them toward the Saviour and bring them to His feet. What happens there is a miracle. If it needs to be done over and over again, so be it. But let's keep reminding people about the safe place at the feet of Jesus.

[Gibs]

Gail.

Yes it is fine to praise God Gail but for ones to portray they can be redeemed in sin must be countered.

I wouldn't really be of Love if I did not come out clearly in opposition to that. Oh don't you know it is not pleasant to do what I do. But I must be about working to correct error I see is losing lots of souls.

In many circles I am known as a peacemaker. That I prefer to be. We cannot condone error and so it removes me from being one of the majority.

Any more on this Gail, please PM me as this is a derail of this thread.

It makes me so sad that so many think they will be saved in continuing sin.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

I'm not disagreeing with you, Gibs. All I'm saying is that it can be discouraging to have someone praise God and another shoot him down for it. Lord knows we have enough of that in the secular world. Hard to have that also among our own brethren.

Aim them toward the Saviour and bring them to His feet. What happens there is a miracle. If it needs to be done over and over again, so be it. But let's keep reminding people about the safe place at the feet of Jesus.

AMEN SISTER

[Gibs]

Quote:

IOW, can we be redeemed while pursueing behavior purposely contrary to the revelation of God's character?

Good Question LHC.

And the answer is YES. Praise B the Lord.

FOr I certainly don't deserve His Grace.

But it is GIVEN to me despite that.

Praise B the Lord

Woody it is hard for me to believe you are serious with that answer. I am appalled!

When "purosely contrary", and be redeemed in it, that is saved in sin and grace don't cover that!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

Quote:

Woody it is hard for me to believe you are serious with that answer. I am appalled!

When "purosely contrary", and be redeemed in it, that is saved in sin and grace don't cover that!

I am serious Gibs.

But we would have to look at the definition of sin.

In my mind - ALL sin is willful sin. No one is forcing us to sin. It is a choice.

I sin every day.

I will sin till the day I die.

This will always be a fight to overcome.

Do I keep trying to overcome? YES. And I always will.

But I will choose to sin even though I hate sin and do not desire it in my life. It is and will always be a constant battle.

But my salvation is secured. I have that assurance no matter how many times I CHOOSE sin.

Gibs - This is something I have been praying that you might experience in your life. What a blessing it is.

[Gibs]

Doggone it Woody, but we can have power over it, it then is not a part of us. I just opened up EGW and here this one was and Woody she has stated this so very many times in different ways and this has to be the true way.

This read of hers is one of the best I've caught for awhile and I pray you will be blessed by it,

"We need not retain one sinful propensity. . . . As we partake of the divine nature, hereditary and cultivated tendencies to wrong are cut away from the character, and we are made a living power for good. Ever learning of the divine Teacher, daily partaking of His nature, we cooperate with God in overcoming Satan's temptations. {FLB 23.4}

How this is accomplished, Christ has shown us. By what means did He overcome in the conflict with Satan? By the Word of God. Only by the Word could He resist temptation. "It is written," He said. And unto us are given "exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature. . . ." Every promise in God's Word is ours. . . . When assailed by temptation, look not to circumstances or to the weakness of self, but to the power of the Word. All its strength is yours. {FLB 23.5}

Grasp His promises as leaves from the tree of life: "Him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." John 6:37. As you come to Him, believe that He accepts you, because He has promised. You can never perish while you do this--never. {FLB 23.6}

The power He had to overcome can be ours for the taking, free, not works, He does that dwelling from within.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

Oh Gibs. I agree. We need not sin. The power is there to never sin. God's power is limitless and all of that power is available to each one of us.

BUT - we are all sinners and we will not use that power that is available to us.

As Ellen White says : There is NO excuse for sin.

But praise God - HE forgives.

[Gail]

I think a better question to ask would be if Woody is in willful rebellion to God?

In the wilderness the sanctuary was active even during times that Israel as a nation was faithful. Why? because when sin arose there was a remedy for it.

Even active, allegiant followers of Christ will fall into sin periodically (more like every day). But it isn't the trip-ups that will condemn a person, if that person's heart desire is for Jesus. Even a sin such as David's needed to be repented of but it didn't keep him back from again seeking God for forgiveness. Granted, it took a public humiliation to get him into a state of repentance, and he foreverafter suffered the effects of his grave sin, but when he repented he repented deeply and heartfeltedly. And he was forgiven of that pre-meditated, willful sin.

I would not recommend anyone going the route that David did! Before he repented he was self-serving to the point of destroying others and if he hadn't repented and returned to the Lord he might have ended up as so many other of the kings of Judah and Israel who were murdered when their hearts were so far in rebellion.

God is good and powerful to give us victory. But victory sometimes is not instant, nor does it always come without any help from us. But we need to each day place ourselves on His side. Our weapons are not carnal but mighty to the pulling down of strongholds. I believe that everyday we should have something to testify about of the love, mercy and power of God in our lives.

[Woody]

I think a better question to ask would be if Woody is in willful rebellion to God?

In the wilderness the sanctuary was active even during times that Israel as a nation was faithful. Why? because when sin arose there was a remedy for it.

Even active, allegiant followers of Christ will fall into sin periodically (more like every day). But it isn't the trip-ups that will condemn a person, if that person's heart desire is for Jesus. Even a sin such as David's needed to be repented of but it didn't keep him back from again seeking God for forgiveness. Granted, it took a public humiliation to get him into a state of repentance, and he foreverafter suffered the effects of his grave sin, but when he repented he repented deeply and heartfeltedly. And he was forgiven of that pre-meditated, willful sin.

I would not recommend anyone going the route that David did! Before he repented he was self-serving to the point of destroying others and if he hadn't repented and returned to the Lord he might have ended up as so many other of the kings of Judah and Israel who were murdered when their hearts were so far in rebellion.

God is good and powerful to give us victory. But victory sometimes is not instant, nor does it always come without any help from us. But we need to each day place ourselves on His side. Our weapons are not carnal but mighty to the pulling down of strongholds. I believe that everyday we should have something to testify about of the love, mercy and power of God in our lives.

[Gail]

Doggone it Woody, but we can have power over it, it then is not a part of us. I just opened up EGW and here this one was and Woody she has stated this so very many times in different ways and this has to be the true way.

This read of hers is one of the best I've caught for awhile and I pray you will be blessed by it,

"We need not retain one sinful propensity. . . . As we partake of the divine nature, hereditary and cultivated tendencies to wrong are cut away from the character, and we are made a living power for good. Ever learning of the divine Teacher, daily partaking of His nature, we cooperate with God in overcoming Satan's temptations. {FLB 23.4}

How this is accomplished, Christ has shown us. By what means did He overcome in the conflict with Satan? By the Word of God. Only by the Word could He resist temptation. "It is written," He said. And unto us are given "exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature. . . ." Every promise in God's Word is ours. . . . When assailed by temptation, look not to circumstances or to the weakness of self, but to the power of the Word. All its strength is yours. {FLB 23.5}

Grasp His promises as leaves from the tree of life: "Him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." John 6:37. As you come to Him, believe that He accepts you, because He has promised. You can never perish while you do this--never. {FLB 23.6}

The power He had to overcome can be ours for the taking, free, not works, He does that dwelling from within.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Man shall not live by bread alone... Matt. 4:4

[Gibs]

Yes we are all sinners, weakened by yrs in it is why we are nothing to overcome it of our selves.

Like you stated His Power who is in us is limitless so we must take of it as it is truly ours for the taking. He made the taking very easy for even for the weakest.

He who is forgiven the most will love the most and Paul needs to move over, is he the the chief of sinners now down to here, at the least he must share that bench with me as I don't know how he could've been deeper into it than my past.

Now I walk with Him and Hold Tight to His Hand, I need His Holding power.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[JoeMo]

Gail and Woody,

Big AMEN!

I don't think Woody is in rebellion, I think he is just being honest - an example we all should follow. We have all fallen short of the glory of God; and none of us is righteous - not even one.

Woody is a big boy - he doesn't need me to defend him. But I do respect him for his honesty and candidness. We all have the power to overcome sin - we just don't use it all the time. If we say we have no sin we are liars - the truth is not in us. Thank God that when we do sin, we have an Advocate with the father who is faithful to forgive our sin and cleanse us from our unrighteousness!

Let us forgive one another as well, bearing with one another patiently. I want so much to do that, so I may be forgiven as I forgive. I so need a Savior; and I have one in Jesus!

Praise God for His salvation by grace!

JoeMo

[M. T. Cross]

If you don't believe in sin, are you still a sinner?

[Gail]

And the beauty of redemption is that it is when we are weak that we are strong. That is because when we realise our weakness and give up trying to be in control that is when God steps in mightily and it becomes His strength.

When that happens to you once or twice and it blows you away then see if your heart is not melted to want to be His forever and to always be near to Him.

Those little books of John start to really make sense.

[Gibs]

EC, You state,

"If you don't believe in sin, are you still a sinner?"

If you believe in righteousness are you righteous?

That would be a good start to work on! But to finish it we must go to Him that He could finish in us our right desire.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

If you don't believe in sin, are you still a sinner?

No. Clearly you are only held responsible for that which you know. So - if you don't know anything about sin - then you are sinless. Kinda cool.

[Woody]

Very interesting thoughts Gail.

We DO have to be emptied to be filled.