Are We Redeemed?

[Robert]

Woody,

You better believe it is your resposibility.

Excuses we have none. All power is ours for the taking to be the overcomer He needs and wants us to be. "DO IT" like the hdw sign says at our local hardware store here.

Legalism & self-righteousness - doctrines that destroy the faithful. Fight these who present this gospel of works. Here's what Paul said of them:

Phil 3:1 Finally, my brothers, rejoice in the Lord! It is no trouble for me to write the same things to you again, and it is a safeguard for you. 2 Watch out for those dogs, those men who do evil, those mutilators of the flesh. 3 For it is we who are the circumcision, we who worship by the Spirit of God, who glory in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh-- 4

[Gibs]

Robert, There is absolutely no legalism in my posts or self righteousness.

Christ is may righteousness and strength and stay and impervious covering.

Yes and Robert is is also your responsibility to be an overcomer. He gives us the power for it, it is free and only costs being broken and being subject to Him as your ONLY Master. Self must be crucified, the old man dead and a new creature that He is Master of.

His Divine Nature in us is our ONLY Hope. He is our Hope of Glory.

Because,

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

Yes Gibs - but where you argument falls apart - is that you yourself don't have it. Can you at least tell us why?

[Overaged]

I'm not disagreeing with you, Gibs. All I'm saying is that it can be discouraging to have someone praise God and another shoot him down for it. Lord knows we have enough of that in the secular world. Hard to have that also among our own brethren.

Aim them toward the Saviour and bring them to His feet. What happens there is a miracle. If it needs to be done over and over again, so be it. But let's keep reminding people about the safe place at the feet of Jesus.

There is a place to expose pretense and hypocrisy, and I think it can easily be shown how some who need to do this kind of exposing are also very busy leading people to the feet of Jesus. Some will be led; others will not. The Bible has examples of people falsely praising God - acting the part of pretend Christians, while stabbing their innocent brothers or sisters in the back with some lie, harassment, or gossip. While I don't 100% agree with all that Gibs is saying; it does seem that he is correct in saying that people don't seem to like any "truth" that exposes something wrong they are doing. As long as they can continue in sin; to them it is "truth." The Church, and people in general seem to be allergic to calling sin by it's right name, saying all manner of special holy talk to put down those who try to do this. Holy talk, and so called "praise" is not that at all when it is used to knock someone down they don't like.

[Overaged]

Robert, There is absolutely no legalism in my posts or self righteousness.

Christ is may righteousness and strength and stay and impervious covering.

Yes and Robert is is also your responsibility to be an overcomer. He gives us the power for it, it is free and only costs being broken and being subject to Him as your ONLY Master. Self must be crucified, the old man dead and a new creature that He is Master of.

His Divine Nature in us is our ONLY Hope. He is our Hope of Glory.

Because,

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

If we are not overcomers; then we are moving backwards, not forward. Being "redeemed" is not just making a bunch of nice-sounding Jesus claims. It is about personal testimony of victory in Jesus. period. Your stand on this point, Gibs, is commendable. And Biblical.

[Overaged]

Legalism & self-righteousness - doctrines that destroy the faithful. Fight these who present this gospel of works. Here's what Paul said of them:

Phil 3:1 Finally, my brothers, rejoice in the Lord! It is no trouble for me to write the same things to you again, and it is a safeguard for you. 2 Watch out for those dogs, those men who do evil, those mutilators of the flesh. 3 For it is we who are the circumcision, we who worship by the Spirit of God, who glory in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh-- 4

[Robert]

Yes and Robert is is also your responsibility to be an overcomer.

That's the legalist part....

Matt 23:15 You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are...

Acts 15:10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are."

[Gibs]

The thing you are missing Robert, Christ don't put a yoke on your neck to strengthen you to be an overcomer. He makes it so you don't need more grit than is in you to do it. So the fact and the scriptures are many, you must be an overcomer and that in it's self proves you are not saved, redeemed as you are, in sin.

He forgives and then tells you and all of old, go sin no more! Now do you think He told them to do something that they are not enabled to do? No Way!

There is no legalist to it, it is Christ in you that does the Works.

With your testimony here Robert you are building yourself a pen that will be hard for you to break out of to find the the way He has made for you.

Where is your faith? Faith that now Christ in you and all things of righteousness are now possible to you. When it is then you love what He Loves and your will has become His Will! Those commandments have become your love and they are done unconsciously. Then you have shown Him you Love Him. Only He can know this. You of cours will not boast about it, your boast is of Him and His Power in You.

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments

To me He is saying there, If you love me you will do my commandments freely.

We must find ourselves tottally free within His Will for us and then we are free men an women in Christ Jesus. There is no binding or galling in it, Love for Him and our fellow man does it. True Love will fulfill the Law!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gail]

I take His commands as promises... It would be cruel to tell someone to do something knowing they full well can't if you are not prepared to equip that someone.

[Overaged]

I take His commands as promises... It would be cruel to tell someone to do something knowing they full well can't if you are not prepared to equip that someone.

That is an interesting thought. How would we "equip" someone to do this? (I presume you mean equip to do commandments?).

[Gail]

It's God doing the equipping... the power and the tools are through Him.

[Overaged]

I do agree with you so far; I guess I am wondering, as Stan would sometimes put it: "What would that look like?" If this "equipping" was/is happening; what would we personally see/experience?

[CoAspen]

Quote:

The Church, and people in general seem to be allergic to calling sin by it's right name, saying all manner of special holy talk to put down those who try to do this. Holy talk, and so called "praise" is not that at all when it is used to knock someone down they don't like.

Really??? I have not observed that at all, ever! I have been in this church a long time and in many places, so that observation needs to be specific and not general because it sounds like the Church, in your mid, is going and has been going away from God. How many people do you really know? "In general", is a very large sounding number, usually indicating a majority.

Is the follower of Christ to 'sin searching' or 'soul searching'?

[Overaged]

How many people do you really know? "In general", is a very large sounding number, usually indicating a majority.

This has absolutely nothing to do with the OP; but I do know people throughout the US, Canada, and several other countries overseas. "In general" is my way of addressing a trend, not necessarily a number. As I said; the Bible and the spirit of prophecy both have a lot of references to pretend christians. I don't think that should be a great mystery to anyone who is open to the truth of whats going on.

[Gibs]

We can easily say "I am redeemed" and in reality know in ourselves we are really not because of our continuing sin and I find that His Spirit prods that one to know he has spoken falsely. He wants all to come to His Redemption and to testify to it when it is true in us to the best of our hearts dessire fully given.

Yes and as OV brought out we should all call sin by it's right name and it is best to look at self and correct him first.

Isa 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Pr 17:15 ¶ He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Overaged]

it is best to look at self and correct him first.

Too often; the gospel we preach for others, is not the gospel that we have for ourselves. This can sometimes be a weak area for most of us.

[Woody]

Quote:

I do know people throughout the US, Canada, and several other countries overseas.

Can you define "throughout" - would that mean each state, each country - each city?

[Woody]

Quote:

We can easily say "I am redeemed" and in reality know in ourselves we are really not because of our continuing sin

Whoops - your showing your colors here Gibs. I am redeemed despite my continuing sins. My salvation has NOTHING to do with my sins or lack of sins. My salvation has to do with God's sacrifice on my behalf.

[Woody]

Quote:

The Church, and people in general seem to be allergic to calling sin by it's right name, saying all manner of special holy talk to put down those who try to do this. Holy talk, and so called "praise" is not that at all when it is used to knock someone down they don't like.

Wow. ANd now you are speaking for "the church and people in general" ?

[Gail]

I do agree with you so far; I guess I am wondering, as Stan would sometimes put it: "What would that look like?" If this "equipping" was/is happening; what would we personally see/experience?

Personally, I find that when I simply spend time with Jesus I have a whole different mindset than when I launch out for the day on my own.

Bible study and reading and meditation all help to fortify, as does putting on the whole armour of God. Prayer and Biblical disciplines all put us where we can listen and receive of Him.

At the end of it all we still have to make choices in this life. But what a difference to our strength level in our minds and bodies AFTER we have received of God!

That is how it works for me, anyway. Ask someone who is a prayer warrior if prayer really makes a difference in the life. Ask someone who reads his/her Bible everyday what that does for the soul.

There is nothing more exciting than a fresh and vibrant spirituality. It beats arguing about theology till it's dead and cold anyday! :)

[Woody]

Quote:

How would we "equip" someone to do this?

It's God who does the equipping.

[Gail]

Now having done my rant, I do admit that it only works for as long as one is doing it... and I have also been guilty of falling away or becoming complacent like anyone else. In this world there is plenty to keep us unfocused and distracted and I struggle with that, too.

But I do remember God's gifts and His presence. Once you have tasted of milk and honey the desire is there until it gets quenched. It is that that makes one want to cry, Holy, like the angels of heaven.

[Woody]

Works replenish the soul. But they do not save it.

[Gibs]

Real works come I find from being saved. Like faith without works is dead.

We are to testify to wrong teachings and to right teachings alike.

Here is some verses for us all to consider and there is more than these,

Eze 33:8 When I say unto the wicked, O wicked man, thou shalt surely die; if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

Eze 33:9 Nevertheless, if thou warn the wicked of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.

Eze 33:10 ¶ Therefore, O thou son of man, speak unto the house of Israel; Thus ye speak, saying, If our transgressions and our sins be upon us, and we pine away in them, how should we then live?

Eze 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gail]

Works replenish the soul. But they do not save it.

No, they don't. I don't even know if they replenish the soul. But God will live in your heart and work through the soul, and if you experience that you will have reason to rejoice.