Are We Redeemed?

[JoeMo]

Good point, Gail,

Grace (unmerited faveor) replenishes the soul and gives you the desire, right motivation, and ability to obey and do good works.

[Woody]

Good point, Gail,

Grace (unmerited faveor) replenishes the soul and gives you the desire, right motivation, and ability to obey and do good works.

Amen and Amen

[Robert]

There is no legalist to it, it is Christ in you that does the Works.

But here's the problem...it goes counter to the gospel. You see the gospel tells me that in Christ I am complete. You say "no"...Christ must add His work in me to make the gospel complete. This is heresy. You know why? I'm falling short...so are you, but you are too proud or too blind to admit it.

[Robert]

I take His commands as promises... It would be cruel to tell someone to do something knowing they full well can't if you are not prepared to equip that someone.

Cruel or not it was the only way God had to open they eyes of the self-righteous. We are by birth proud. As Jack says - we are legalistic by nature. We want to contribute to our salvation...it's our egos...our bent to self.

[JoeMo]

Gibs,

Works without faith is dead, too. I am saved by my faith, my works are a witness to the world that God has changed me; but my works have nothing to do with the free gift of eternal life.

[Robert]

What is justification by faith? It is the work of God in laying the glory of man in the dust, and doing for man that which it is not in his power to do for himself (i.e., saving him in Christ). When men see their own nothingness, they are prepared to be clothed with the righteousness of Christ. (EGW)

[Gail]

I don't think you understood... what I was saying was that with God is everything we need that pertains to salvation (I am including walking in righteousness as part of salvation). God DOES have them to give if we want them and if we humble ourselves to receive them and then do receive them in faith.

[Gibs]

It is well understood that any of us of ourselves are nothing, but at the same time the Lord God loves us and wants to redeem us unworthy as we are.

It is re-creation and it can begin when we first come to Christ. He knows how weak and helpless we are so He offers His own strength to us.

"By His perfect obedience He has made it possible for every human being to obey God's commandments. When we submit ourselves to Christ, the heart is united with His heart, the will is merged in His will, the mind becomes one with His mind, the thoughts are brought into captivity to Him; we live His life. This is what it means to be clothed with the garment of His righteousness. Then as the Lord looks upon us He sees, not the fig-leaf garment, not the nakedness and deformity of sin, but His own robe of righteousness, which is perfect obedience to the law of Jehovah. {FLB 113.4}

Those who . . . accept of Christ are looked upon by God, not as they are in Adam, but as they are in Jesus Christ, as the sons and daughters of God. {FLB 113.5}

We are not to be anxious about what Christ and God think of us, but about what God thinks of Christ, our Substitute.

Religion ever imparts power to its possessor to restrain, control, and balance the character and intellect and emotions. It has a power to persuade, entreat, and command with divine authority all the ability and affections. Religion--oh, I wish we all understood its workings! It lays us under the weightiest obligations. As we connect ourselves with Christ we solemnly pledge ourselves to walk as Christ walked. Whether we eat or drink or whatsoever we do, all must be done with self out of sight and God's glory in view. Every act of ours has its influence upon others, therefore every thought and every motive is to be under the control of the Spirit of God.{DG 169.1}

Our notions, our peculiarities, are wholly human and must not be humored or indulged. Self is to be crucified, not now and then, but daily, and the physical, mental, and spiritual must be subordinate to the will of God. The glory of God, the perfection of Christian character, is to be the aim, the purpose of our life. Christ's followers must imitate Christ in disposition. The Pattern is given us to copy, and no excuse will be accepted of God as a reason for not meeting the divine standard, however contrary it may be to our own nature, our own selfish desires and inclinations. Like Christ is the watchword, not like your father or your mother, but like Jesus Christ--hid in Christ, clothed with Christ's righteousness, imbued with the Spirit of Christ. {DG 169.2}

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gail]

I do not look at it as works. It is my joy to come into God's presence. It doesn't merit anything toward any salvation. It is just an awesome place.

I mean, isn't it your joy? (puzzled...)

[Overaged]

Now having done my rant, I do admit that it only works for as long as one is doing it... and I have also been guilty of falling away or becoming complacent like anyone else. In this world there is plenty to keep us unfocused and distracted and I struggle with that, too.

But I do remember God's gifts and His presence. Once you have tasted of milk and honey the desire is there until it gets quenched. It is that that makes one want to cry, Holy, like the angels of heaven.

So far; atleast in my opinion Gail; you have the best rant of anyone else posting in this topic. I for one appreciated it.

While I am having a bit of a short-circuit, trying to see the connection with how we would equip others, in the sense you posted, I think the thing you are also saying is that we do equip ourselves by learning of Jesus, and having our own personal experience with Him? (as in John 17:3).

Are we redeemed? Well; who is "we?"

[Overaged]

I do not look at it as works. It is my joy to come into God's presence. It doesn't merit anything toward any salvation. It is just an awesome place.

I mean, isn't it your joy? (puzzled...)

I think there is a lot of confusion re "works;" and it is sad to watch some of the intense controversys we sometimes see over it.

The way I have come to view works, is simple; and Biblical, as far as I know. They are so intimately connected with the experience of salvation, that it is just as wrong to try to exclude them from the picture, as it would be to try to exclude faith from the picture.

What we keep forgetting is that we are not saved by "faith alone;" for faith itself is not our Savior, or we would then be saved by works! Jesus alone is our Savior. (John 1:29) All the typical arguments re faith versus works are null and void. We don't need to be ensnared by them at all! Coming into God's presence, and experiencing that "joy" that you speak of is a part of that "faith at work" experience that a true Christian will always have testimony about. (1 John 1:1-3, Rev 12:11).

[Gail]

I meant that it is God doing the equipping. We can only say, Come and see! or, Taste and see that the Lord is good!

Are we redeemed? If you are God's child and you are happy to be there, I would say, Yes by the blood of the Lamb, but I can't tell what's in your heart. You might surprise me, but there is no surprising God, and he's the one that matters. :)

[Overaged]

I

Are we redeemed? If you are God's child and you are happy to be there, I would say, Yes by the blood of the Lamb, but I can't tell what's in your heart. You might surprise me, but there is no surprising God, and he's the one that matters.

[Woody]

Personally - I believe in Salvation by Faith.

[Woody]

FB friend:

The strongest argument in favor of the gospel is a loving and lovable Christian. – Ellen White

[Gail]

Personally - I believe in Salvation by Faith.

And... what is faith?

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Woody

Personally - I believe in Salvation by Faith.

And... what is faith?

Can't answer that or some person will come by and accuse me of being OFF TOPIC. LOL

But feel free to start a new thread on the definition of Faith.

[Gail]

LOL

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Woody

Personally - I believe in Salvation by Faith.

And... what is faith?

Heb 11:1 Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.

[Woody]

Quote:

Heb 11:1 Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.

God is Good

[Robert]

Faith is saying, “God, I believe even though I don’t have the evidence,” in the sense, “I don’t have the tangible evidence, but I believe.” Without faith it is impossible to be righteous. Without faith you are a sinner condemned. So faith is not simply a make-believe. Faith is based on something that is real. Jesus Christ and Him crucified. The Word of God who became flesh and dwelt among us and we beheld His glory.

[CoAspen]

[Gail]

Is it belief with your head or belief with your heart? Or neither or both or just one of those?

(Just wrenching again... )

[JoeMo]

Robert,

Thumbs up on quoting Hebrews 11:1. You took the words right out of my mouth.

Gail,

You know what faith is! I've seen your posts and received grace through you so often. You practice faith from your heart every day. You may have a hard time putting it into words, but your life (at least the little piece of it we see on C/A) is a living witness to the veracity of your faith. I think you're just trying to make us men think

Faith is a gift from God. Without the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, we would never even consider such an abstract concept. Once we get the "download" from God, we choose to either accept it or reject it. If we accept it, consider it, and let it grow in our minds (again by God;s grace), it moves into our hearts; and then into our actions. If we "go with the flow" of grace and let our faith grow to maturity, it isn't even a matter of consciously doing God's will; all we do is unconsciously follow our instincts and spontaneous whims. Why? Because as God promises, His Law is written in our hearts.

Our witness should be like a contagious disease. When we have a cold or the flu, we don't consciously pass it on to others; it just "happens" when someone gets in our vicinity. So it should be with our faith. We shouldn't have to "try" to witness in order to bring people to jesus, they should just "catch" Him when they get too close to us!

Saved by infectious grace,

JoeMo

[Woody]

Gail - a good challenge for us men. WE don't always think with our brains.