Are We Redeemed?

[Gibs]

In a nutshell,

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

In a nutshell,

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Now there brother - is something I can agree with you on. :)

[Robert]

What you've done is string a bunch of verses together, and out of context, to present the heresy of salvation by law.

[Robert]

destroy one commandment and all the rest will appear less than valuable....

The law is much bigger than 10 brief commandments. The law is spiritual.

[cheddar]

Quote:

The old covenant is not the everlasting covenant, the new one is.

Interesting to note that out of the eighteen times "everlasting covenant" is mentioned in the Word, it's found only twice in the New Testament books. What significance might you determine for that?

And could you give the scriptural reference that would indicate your conclusion noted above. Thanks.

God blesses!

The everlasting covenant is the one that is written on our heart. The old covenant was written in stone and in the Torah.

The first time the everlasting covenant is mentioned is in the days of Noah when God put gave the rainbow as a promise that he would never again destroy the world by water.

It was also mentioned several times in the days of Abraham who lived a life of faith. This was long before Moses and the Torah. It is also mentioned in connection with the Sabbath, table of showbread and the last days.

Finally Paul mentions the everlasting/new covenant in connection with the blood of Jesus Christ. The Lord's supper is not a commemoration of the days of Moses but of the life of Jesus.

[Gibs]

EGW states it this way and I find it to be the right explanation on the covenants,

"The Abrahamic covenant was ratified by the blood of Christ, and it is called the "second," or "new," covenant, because the blood by which it was sealed was shed after the blood of the first covenant. {FLB 77.4}

The covenant of grace is not a new truth, for it existed in the mind of God from all eternity. This is why it is called the everlasting covenant. {FLB 77.5}

There is hope for us only as we come under the Abrahamic covenant, which is the covenant of grace by faith in Christ Jesus. The gospel preached to Abraham, through which he had hope, was the same gospel that is preached to us today. . . . Abraham looked unto Jesus, who is also the author and the finisher of our faith. {FLB 77.6}

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[skyblue888]

EGW states it this way and I find it to be the right explanation on the covenants,

"The Abrahamic covenant was ratified by the blood of Christ, and it is called the "second," or "new," covenant, because the blood by which it was sealed was shed after the blood of the first covenant. {FLB 77.4}

The covenant of grace is not a new truth, for it existed in the mind of God from all eternity. This is why it is called the everlasting covenant. {FLB 77.5}

There is hope for us only as we come under the Abrahamic covenant, which is the covenant of grace by faith in Christ Jesus. The gospel preached to Abraham, through which he had hope, was the same gospel that is preached to us today. . . . Abraham looked unto Jesus, who is also the author and the finisher of our faith. {FLB 77.6}

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Great quotes.

sky

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

The law is much bigger than 10 brief commandments. The law is spiritual.

"Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord

your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with

all your mind.’ This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." Matthew 22:37-40 NKJV

"He has shown you, O man, what is good; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justly, To love mercy, And to walk humbly with your God?"Micah 6:8 NKJV

To denigrate the Word of God doesn't reveal to me, walking humbly with Him. And rejecting the Word so I can steal from my neighbor doesn't show my love for him as I love myself, no matter how much I might profess with my heart.

God blesses!

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

There is hope for us only as we come under the Abrahamic covenant, which is the covenant of grace by faith in Christ Jesus. The gospel preached to Abraham, through which he had hope, was the same gospel that is preached to us today. . . . Abraham looked unto Jesus, who is also the author and the finisher of our faith. {FLB 77.6}

Seems like this ought to fit right here.

"And if ye are Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, heirs according to promise."Galatians 3:29 ASV

God blesses!

[Robert]

The law of Jehovah is exceedingly broad. Jesus . . . plainly declared to His disciples that this holy law of God may be violated in even the thoughts and feelings and desires, as well as in the word and deed. The heart that loves God supremely will not in any way be inclined to narrow down His precepts to the very smallest possible claims, but the obedient, loyal soul will cheerfully render full spiritual obedience when the law is seen in its spiritual power. Then will the commandments come home to the soul in their real force. Sin will appear exceedingly sinful. . . . There is no longer self-righteousness, self-esteem, self-honor. Self-security is gone. Deep conviction of sin and self-loathing is the result, and the soul in its desperate sense of peril lays hold on the blood of the Lamb of God as his only remedy. . . . [EGW]

It is evident that where a claim to sinlessness is made, there the law of God has not been written in the heart; for the commandments of God are exceeding broad, and are discerners of the thoughts and intents of the heart. The apostle speaks words of encouragement to those who realize that they are sinners, and says, “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all righteousness.” “If we say we have no sin,” when our thoughts, words, and actions, reflected from the law of God, the great moral mirror, reveal us as transgressors, we make God a liar, and prove that his word is not in us. [EGW]

[phkrause]

Gail.

Yes it is fine to praise God Gail but for ones to portray they can be redeemed in sin must be countered.

I wouldn't really be of Love if I did not come out clearly in opposition to that. Oh don't you know it is not pleasant to do what I do. But I must be about working to correct error I see is losing lots of souls.

In many circles I am known as a peacemaker. That I prefer to be. We cannot condone error and so it removes me from being one of the majority.

Any more on this Gail, please PM me as this is a derail of this thread.

It makes me so sad that so many think they will be saved in continuing sin.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Gibs, in my thinking, being redeemed and being saved are not the same. Jesus redeemed all when he died on the Cross. So I would agree with does that say we are redeemed. Being saved is another story all together.

[Gibs]

Yes PK, I know that potentially all are redeemed by the Blood of the Lamb as it is fully sufficient for every last one.

And when one believes he is redeemed he proclaims it. We also know many will be sadly disappointed is the sad problem.

Herein lies the problem. Satan comes to all he can to deceive on the most important issue of all and too many don't go deep enough to find the truth of it.

2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

1Ti 5:6 But she that liveth in pleasure is dead while she liveth.

It is that pleasure that steals away God's subjects.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[cheddar]

So when Jesus died on the cross did he merely make a provision for the whole world to be saved (i.e. if they choose or believe or keep the law)?

Or did he in fact save the whole world with every last person receiving a full and complete salvation irregardless of whether they choose or believe or keep the law?

And keep in mind that the only ones who would have had opportunity to choose or believe or keep the law would have to have lived at the time of Jesus. Everyone who lived prior was already dead and their life record was closed and everyone who lived after had not been born yet. Kind of silly to think that our salvation depends on us.

[Robert]

So when Jesus died on the cross did he merely make a provision for the whole world to be saved....

Here's what the self-righteous among us do: they water down the doing and dying of Christ so they can glory in their performance!

[Gibs]

Beginning with Adam provision was made at the cross for every last one to be redeemed. Does that mean all will be saved regardless? No it does not!

No sin will not enherit the Kingdom of Heaven. Nor will any will enter in there that have not put it out of them. No seeds, roots and plants of sin will ever be there to produce a ruinous crop like we all are seeing. This present world will end the crop of sin and rebellion.

Na 1:9 ¶ What do ye imagine against the LORD? he will make an utter end: affliction shall not rise up the second time.

Na 1:10 For while they be folden together as thorns, and while they are drunken as drunkards, they shall be devoured as stubble fully dry.

What would be the sense of ending this world of sin if it was only just to be carried into Heaven. None! Of course and you may be very assured it won't happen.

You see He knows to the last letter our soul, spirit and heart set that it is embeded in us never to be a part in it again. That must be accomplished in this life we are living now.

No it isn't works but a full and total surrender of self, pride and love of the world and it's sinful pleasures. Fallen and broken on Him, crushed and dead of self forever, He being the Master in the soul temple. Then His Merits are applied and He comes and dwells within and we become victorious overcomers.

Re 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Jos 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: cheddar

So when Jesus died on the cross did he merely make a provision for the whole world to be saved....

Here's what the self-righteous among us do: they water down the doing and dying of Christ so they can glory in their performance!

Wow. Did you ever hit the nail on the head today Rob.

[cheddar]

Beginning with Adam provision was made at the cross for every last one to be redeemed. Does that mean all will be saved regardless? No it does not!

No sin will not enherit the Kingdom of Heaven. Nor will any will enter in there that have not put it out of them. No seeds, roots and plants of sin will ever be there to produce a ruinous crop like we all are seeing. This present world will end the crop of sin and rebellion.

No one is disagreeing that sin will never enter heaven! At least I'm not.

I want to know what happened at the cross because it was much more that a provision or a 'what if'.

Your understanding of salvation is dependent upon the acts or choice of the believer and this is part of the gospel but what happened at the cross?

Did you make a choice 2000 years ago? Did you you ask Jesus to save you? No! - He just did it without you permission.

God did not need your help to create you and he does not need your help to redeem you. 'Christ in you - the hope of glory'.

[Robert]

Beginning with Adam provision was made at the cross for every last one to be redeemed. Does that mean all will be saved regardless? No it does not!

No, some will reject the gospel....Everyone who is lost thinks of themselves as good. Why? Mankind is by nature, proud...he is legalistic. When you bring legalism into the church it's called "the world in the church".

[Gibs]

Well Robert, you've made it clear then that I am not a legalist. Thank you! But I must differ with you on what is the world into the church and that is liberalism. So liberal that it all goes, all is made kosher. Even to Rocking and Rolling around in a frenzied madness is counted as the spirit moving. Ye-ow but what spirit?

And back to Cheddar, Christ's provision for our redemption was looked forward to by all the old patriots and we look back to it in faith. We are all saved the same. The requirements of salvation have never changed, God didn't change it as He never changes as a perfect work don't require any change.

Note this statement of Paul's,

Col 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Jesus Christ was their salvation and redemption and ours the same.

Paul hit it right spot on there and all need to see it. So did John, notice,

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[JoeMo]

cheddar proposed earlier the possibility that all men were saved by Christ's sacrifice (at least that's what I think he proposed). I'm not there, because I don't think Jesus is going to drag people into the Kingdom kicking and screaming that they don't want to be there. But my mind is open to the possibility that, after the 1,000 years are ended, all who are resurrected will have a chance to meet the "real" Jesus; and make an intelligent choice for salvation based on the real Jesus; not the one they were taught about. So many people who have labelled themselves Christian have believed in a vindictive, angry Jesus; and strived their entire lives trying to earn their salvation by works. Either that or they gave up trying and gave up their faith. The real Jesus is a loving forgiving Redeemer who saves us by His grace if we simply accept the grace He so freely offers.

Also, Christ died for the sins of the world. At the time of His death, all our our sins were in the future. He who knew all of our sins was the ultimate atonement of future sin, as well as past and present.

One more thing - Paul tells us that we are all members of the body of Christ. In another place, he tells us that we are "in Christ". If those statements are true (they are in scripture; so they must be true!) then isn't it possible that we who are in Him died the second death along with Him at the crucifixion? Just a thought ....

[Gibs]

Jesus died that we need not die the second death is correct. But I do not believe in a second chance for any, the second resurrection is not for any to have any salvation but are raised to meet their finale.

JoeMo, no I for one am sure there is no probationary time except for the time we are living now, then it is over and will be ended while many are yet living and the decree in Heaven is stated,

Re 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

Then it is stated by Him,

Re 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Notice, His Reward is With Him!,

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Robert]

Jesus died that we need not die the second death is correct.

Gibs...you don't understand the gospel.

Let me ask you a question - how does a sinless man's death (Christ's death) get credited to you? Keep in mind some facts:

Guilt & obedience can't be transferred. See Ez 18:20

The one who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them.

[Robert]

Re 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

I question those who consistently work out of Revelation - a very symbolic book. You can make it say just about anything.

Do you think you are holy? Do you think that you are righteous? What is the measuring stick for righteousness? Please don't say the law, because the law is much broader than 10 brief commands. Jesus is the measuring stick of righteousness. Look at His life for it fulfills the spirit of God's law.

Are you living Christ's selfless life? Don't dare say "yes" because the Bible will call you a liar.

Since you aren't living Christ's life, then you are not righteous...you are not holy.

Only "in Christ" are you both holy and righteous.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

But I do not believe in a second chance for any

I would like to add, those who want a second chance when Jesus returns, had countless second chances during the time they were alive on this planet.

"But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’”"Luke 16:31 NKJV

Though very sad, yet a fact of the world we live in. And if we are disappointed in these results, whether about ourselves or about another, just imagine what our Father is experiencing, especially when each one who at last loses out on eternal life, was created as His child, meant to experience eternal life with their eternal Father, Who is Love.

God blesses!

[Gibs]

After that proclamation He comes very soon, the cases of all have been decided as stated.

Re 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

Robert, I am assured by faith He has given me His righteousness and am covered by His Blood. It is all by His Merits applied to me, I can boast nothing.

He in me is my strength and stay and power to be an overcomer that made it possible.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.