Love vs. Law

[Gerr]

Is law against love, and love against law?

[Gibs]

Not with our God's Law of Love. YHWH, King of Israel!

Love fulfills the law He has set forth.

Ellen White statement,

"The law of love being the foundation of the government of God, the happiness of all intelligent beings depends upon their perfect accord with its great principles of righteousness. God desires from all His creatures the service of love—service that springs from an appreciation of His character. He takes no pleasure in a forced obedience, and to all He grants freedom of will, that they may render Him voluntary service."—Patriarchs and Prophets, pp. 33, 34. {CTr 7.6}

We are never to be a puppet or zombie creature but each has a will of his own to do of His good will or to do of the evil will of the destroyer..

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Tom Wetmore]

What is the law without love? What is love without the law?

The law doesn't automatically require a relationship. Obedience to the law needs no context of relationship. But love is all about relationship. Love does not exist without it.

I have asked the question this way a number of times - Which is more important to God, His law or people?

[Gibs]

This is echoed from beginning to end in the scriptures, and Jesus repeats it here,

Mt 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

He wants us to love Him and our fellow man as ourselves and that will fulfill the law.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Kendoro]

Romans 13:10 "love is the fulfilling the law"

or look at it another way...

People often regard the Ten Commandments as a code of rules first handed down at Mount Sinai. They are actually a timeless love letter from God to all His creation:

"I want to be the most important love in your life (1) because nothing I have made can equal the love and happiness I can give. (2) I want you to love Me for who I am, (3) because I made you and showed you how best to enjoy life by setting aside a special time for us to be together. (4) You are My child (5) and I want you to value all my children as I do. (6) I will provide for all that you need (7) and even create for you the perfect best friend. (8) I want you to be so happy that you'll tell everyone the truth about me (9) and not worry about lacking anything. Trust me. (10)"

Paraphrased in this way, it is easy to see how the Ten Commandments follow after the Two that Jesus described as the 'greatest' of all: Love God, Love your neighbor. This is the message that Jesus embodied when He came to Earth. Sinners repaid Him by nailing Him to the cross. When the Law is regarded in this light, it really makes one step back and reconsider the argument that "the Law was nailed to the cross..."

[Gibs]

"LOVE" was nailed to the cross, but those 10 laws of Him stand eternally. Amen to the paraphrase Kendoro.

Great to see you take part!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Robert]

Is law against love, and love against law?

No, but the law requires the 2nd death to those who aren't producing pure agape.

[Robert]

"those 10 laws of Him stand eternally"

No, the law (as we read it) will be done away with at the end of the age.

[Gerr]

Some of the comments made in another thread that seemed to pit love against law prompted me to start this thread. I have said before that law with love or mercy is tyranny, and mercy/love without law is anarchy. If you look at the 10c, the essence of God's law is really love.

[Gibs]

Gerry,

Yes for sure it is a law of love. He is Love and it is a transcript of Himself the eternal one. His agape Love and law will be in the hearts of all the redeemed.

Ps 40:8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Ron Amnsn]

The law doesn't automatically require a relationship. Obedience to the law needs no context of relationship.

Hmmm...

I suppose that could be the case if you limit the law to being only the "Ten Words" that God spoke from Sinai. But if you include all the rest of God's commandments and instructions as part of the law, as Jesus did, then the law actually does require a relationship.

Matt 22:35-40 (NASB):

One of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?”

And He said to him, “ ‘YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.’ This is the great and foremost commandment. The second is like it, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.’ On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.”

The NASB puts quotations from the Old Testament in capital letters. In this case Jesus was quoting from God's Law of Moses in Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18.

How would a person keep these two commandments without a love relationship?

[12tribes]

Matthew 22:36-40 KJV

(36) Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

(37) Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

(38) This is the first and great commandment.

(39) And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

(40) On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

[Ron Amnsn]

(40) On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Many people read this verse as if it says, "These two commandments replace all the law and the prophets."

However, what it actually says is that these two commands are like the two rods/handles on which the scroll of Scripture is wrapped.

So if you look into the Old Testament and see "legalism", then you're looking through the wrong glasses. What you should see in the Old Testament is "how to love God" and "how to love your neighbor".

[Robert]

Many people read this verse as if it says, "These two commandments replace all the law and the prophets."

I'll even go a step further: "The whole law is fulfilled in one sentence, even in this: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'"

[olger]

I love the Law, it brings peace into our lives.

Psalm 119:165

`oG

[Gibs]

The Law is Love depicted, and I Love, Love, God is Love! How can we not love, love!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Robert]

I love the Law, it brings peace into our lives.

Psalm 119:165

`oG

No, the law brings wrath....It brings condemnation. You are a sinner...you must die. You might call that peace, but I don't. Maybe a good psychiatrist?

[Robert]

The Law is Love depicted, and I Love, Love, God is Love! How can we not love, love!

Look at Christ's life....That's law keeping. So forget the law...see love at work.

[Gibs]

In Christ we saw Love working. It is the law of Love. As long as God lives that Law of Love will exist. It is written in your heart if we have it, if not it comes up on the tables of stone and are written out for us in print. If we are of it, it embraces us, if we are not it condemns us. All will be judged by it.

Break it and - - Ro 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

If Yahweh took away the law there would be no sin, but that law is eternal as it is of Himself.

These 3 verses should be fixed indelible in every mind and heart,

Mt 5:17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Mt 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Mt 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Robert]

If we are of it, it embraces us, if we are not it condemns us. All will be judged by it.

[Guest]

I love the Law, it brings peace into our lives.

Psalm 119:165

`oG

Amen brother.

[Ron Amnsn]

Originally Posted By: RonAmnsn

Many people read this verse as if it says, "These two commandments replace all the law and the prophets."

I'll even go a step further: "The whole law is fulfilled in one sentence, even in this: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'"

The verse you quote, Galatians 5:13, Paul wrote to a congregation that was seeking to obey God's law. They were so interested in obeying that they were having disputes about how to do it. To that audience in that context fulfilling the law was important.

The message that Paul wrote and the message the Galatians understood was a far cry from the "forget the law" that you're espousing.

It's true that the law is not a means to earn salvation. It never was. It is a way of life.

[Robert]

The message that Paul wrote and the message the Galatians understood was a far cry from the "forget the law" that you're espousing.

“As a people, we have preached the law until we are as dry as the hills of Gilboa that had neither dew nor rain. We must preach Christ in the law (in other words look at Christ's life), and there will be sap and nourishment in the preaching that will be as food to the famishing flock of God.”

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: olger

I love the Law, it brings peace into our lives.

Psalm 119:165

`oG

Amen brother.

Really? The law brings you peace? Are you living Christ's life? That's the fulfillment of the law. If not, the law brings you condemnation, not peace!

"Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them." [Gal 3:10]

Rom 4:14 For if those who are under the law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise made of no effect, 15 because the law brings about wrath (not peace)....

Rom 7:9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death.

[JoeMo]

IMO, law and love work together. Most of us begin our Christian walk in Law. We try and try to obey perfectly; but we fail. Even when we are being "good", we wonder - are we being "good enough"? Eventually (hopefully), we reach the end of ourselves trying to "please" God through our obedience - especially when we see scripture that tells us that "no one is righteous - no not one"; or that "all of our righteousness is a filthy rags". When we come to that point of desperation, we throw ourselves upon the cross; and Jesus washes us with His mercy and grace.

Mercy and grace are Jesus' manifestation of His love towards us; and we can't help but love Him back! As we love Him and meditate upon Him, we are changed; and we put our faith in His death and resurrection for our salvation; and our faith is accounted to us as righteousness. We are also empowered to overcome; as Christ begins a work in us that He carries out to completion. Isn't Jesus awesome ?!