Jesus came "to become perfected" in the flesh, not born that way.

[jamesonofthunder]

Was Jesus born perfect?

"None need fail of attaining, in his sphere, to perfection of Christian character. By the sacrifice of Christ, provision has been made for the believer to receive all things that pertain to life and godliness. God calls upon us to reach the standard of perfection and places before us the example of Christ’s character. In His humanity, perfected by a life of constant resistance of evil, the Saviour showed that through co-operation with Divinity, human beings may in this life attain to perfection of character. This is God’s assurance to us that we, too, may obtain complete victory. {AA 531.2}

Every human being has a record in heaven. This is "the Book of Remembrance" and everything we do or think in life is written there. It is the perfect DNA blueprint of the life of every man. Perfection is a journey. We are born with a clean slate but we are hindered by the inherited characteristics of our father and mother. Jesus had a Father with a perfect character, and a mother with a developing character. This was his only advantage in life in comparison to all other men. Mary was not perfect but she was on the road to perfection and God spoke to her so her character development was beyond other women in faith, even though she questioned God later, convinced Jesus was delusional, set against Him by his half brothers.

"Jesus Christ is the Son of God. He was manifest in the flesh. What was his work in this world?—To put away sin by the sacrifice of himself on the cross of Calvary. He was tempted in all points as we are, yet without sin. By his prayers and strong supplications, he overcame. In his human nature, he perfected a character after the divine similitude. By a life of perfect obedience to every requirement of God, he procured redemption for all who will be obedient. The divine nature is imparted to those who receive and acknowledge him as their Saviour. (JT; it is immediate if we accept the gift) They become partakers of the divine nature, overcoming the assaults of Satan and escaping the corruption that is in the world through lust. Christ energizes by his Spirit those who seek him with the whole heart. {RH August 31, 1905, par. 13}

Those who truly receive Christ are given power to become the sons of God. As they look to Jesus, they catch the divine rays of light, and are attracted by the loveliness and purity and goodness of the Saviour. They seek to copy his pleasantness, rather than the harsh violence manifested by those who disregard the laws of God. And as they keep before them the fear of God, and walk as obedient children, others will mark their Christlikeness of character, and will be drawn to the Saviour by the revelation of their love, their justice, and their mercy. Yet some will refuse to come to the Saviour, choosing darkness rather than light, because their deeds are evil. {RH August 31, 1905, par. 14}

Christ and his righteousness,—let this be our platform, the very life of our faith. That which he taught, we are to teach. His commission to his followers is: “Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature;” “and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world.” {RH August 31, 1905, par. 15}

Jesus came from Heaven with the character of God, but when He was born as a man, He had the right to do anything He wanted in the realm of being human, He was led by every possible advantage a human can have for discovery and through answer to prayer He realized His divinity early in life. He realized He could not use His divinity to overcome sin and immediately He was tested on every point beyond what we would ever be tested, yet He did not fail to do what is right. THIS IS WHAT PERFECTED HIM AS A MAN! The record in heaven was spotless for Him, using only that which is for all men's use from God. Prayer in faith. He is our example of faith. If you really want to receive greater faith you have to trust God like Jesus did. Every word life.

"We should seek most earnestly to have Christ abiding in our hearts by faith, that we may be kept through temptation without sin. We should be constantly looking to the Author and Finisher of our faith, so that we can attain unto righteousness. The closer we draw to Jesus, and the more clearly we see his life and character, the less we shall think of ourselves. There are a class that say that they are sanctified, they are holy, and yet they are living in transgression of God’s law. Shall we take their word as truth, or shall we compare their characters and doctrines with the word of God? “To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.” But the apostle says, “Hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected; hereby know we that we are in him.” Every soul must be brought to the test of God’s great standard of righteousness; and if the character is not in accordance with God’s law, it is not in a right condition before God." {RH July 15, 1890, par. 1}

When we receive the words of God in the shadow of the perfected character of Jesus, trusting in the fact that He gave us the right to become right with Him, or perfected, when we receive these truths in our hearts that is when we stand perfected through the merits of Jesus, before the Father. It is then that the record of our sins are transferred to the Mercy seat and our names are recorded into the Lambs book of life, which is a record of everyone who has entered into His faith, our sins covered by His righteousness.

These are the fruits that we shall know them by.

[Gibs]

"We are to copy no human being. There is no human being wise enough to be our criterion. We are to look to the man Christ Jesus, who is complete in the perfection of righteousness and holiness. He is the author and finisher of our faith. He is the pattern man. His experience is the measure of the experience that we are to gain. His character is our model. Let us, then, take our minds off the perplexities and the difficulties of this life and fix them on Him, that by beholding we may be changed into His likeness. . . . {HP 166.5}

We are to have an intense interest in Christ Jesus, for He is our Saviour. He came to this world to be tempted in all points as we are, to prove to the universe that in this world of sin human beings can live lives that God will approve. . . . Let us seek for the blessings that Christ has placed within our reach, that we may be made capable of receiving more and still more of His grace, and that we may be filled with a living, active, growing faith--a faith that believes the promise, "Lo, I am with you always," . . ." (Matthew 28:20). {HP 166.6}

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gerr]

ESV | Lk 1:35 And the angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God.

[Robert]

Was Jesus born perfect?

Jesus, for eternity, has been God. He is part of the Trinity. The Bible refers to Him as the Son of God.

At the incarnation, God the Father mysteriously blended Christ's deity with our corporate humanity that needed redeeming. So "in Christ" you had both the Son of God and the Son of Man.

“The nature of God, whose law had been transgressed, and THE NATURE OF ADAM THE TRANSGRESSOR, meet in Jesus, the Son of God, and the Son of man.” E.G. White, Manuscript 141, 1901.

Clearly Christ, as God, took into Himself (assumed) our fallen life from Adam after the fall.

"In taking upon Himself MAN’S NATURE IN ITS FALLEN CONDITION, Christ did not in the least participate in its sin...” [E.G. White, The Signs of the Times, June 9, 1898.]

Christ as the Son of Man, never sinned - not even by a thought. He lived a perfect life of agape love in our fallen humanity from Adam.

So from the moment of conception Christ's mind was under the full control of the Spirit of God and therefore the nature that He assumed, as the Son of Man, never made Him a slave to sin. He lived an absolute perfect life of Holiness.

However, since Christ assumed "the nature of Adam the transgressor", the moment He was born (maybe conceived) as the Son of Man, that life came under the condemnation of the law.

Gal 4:4 But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law....

Born under the law means under it's curse.

Keep in mind Christ "was made sin", who personally as God knew no sin.

Does that mean Christ as the Son of Man sinned? No! It means that since He took our nature, after the fall, that the law of God condemned this humanity because it was indwelt with iniquity.

On the cross our humanity, which Christ assumed, died the 2nd death. On Sunday Christ was raised with a glorified humanity free from indwelling sin.

[Gibs]

Our Great Protege', Champion,

" I present before you the great Exemplar. . . . As really did He meet and resist the temptations of Satan as any of the children of humanity. In this sense alone could He be a perfect example for man. He subjected Himself to humanity to become acquainted with all the temptations wherewith man is beset. He took upon Him the infirmities and bore the sorrows of the sons of Adam. {OHC 57.2}

He was "made like unto his brethren." Hebrews 2:17. He felt both joy and grief as they feel. His body was susceptible to weariness, as yours. His mind, like yours, could be harassed and perplexed. If you have hardships, so did He. Satan could tempt Him. His enemies could annoy Him. The ruling powers could torture His body; the soldiers could crucify Him; and they can do no more to us. Jesus was exposed to hardships, to conflict and temptation, as a man. He became the Captain of our Salvation through suffering. He could bear His burden better than we, for He bore it without complaint, without impatience, without unbelief, without repining; but this is no evidence He felt it less than any of the suffering sons of Adam. . . . {OHC 57.3}

A bit more,

The infinite value of the sacrifice required for our redemption reveals the fact that sin is a tremendous evil. Through sin the whole human organism is deranged, the mind is perverted, the imagination corrupted. Sin has degraded the faculties of the soul. Temptations from without find an answering chord within the heart, and the feet turn imperceptibly toward evil. As the sacrifice in our behalf was complete, so our restoration from the defilement of sin is to be complete. There is no act of wickedness that the law will excuse; there is no unrighteousness that will escape its condemnation. The life of Christ was a perfect fulfillment of every precept of the law. He said; "I have kept my Father's commandments." John 15:10. His life is our standard of obedience and service. {Mar 91.2}

Today Satan presents the same temptations that he presented to Christ, offering us the kingdoms of the world in return for our allegiance. But upon him who looks to Jesus as the author and finisher of his faith, Satan's temptations have no power. He cannot cause to sin the one who will accept by faith the virtues of Him who was tempted in all points as we are, yet without sin. {Mar 91.3}

The expulsion of sin is the act of the soul itself. True, we have no power to free ourselves from Satan's control; but when we desire to be set free from sin, and in our great need cry out for a power out of and above ourselves, the powers of the soul are imbued with the divine energy of the Holy Spirit, and they obey the dictates of the will in fulfilling the will of God. {Mar 91.4}

God will have a people zealous of good works, standing firm amid the pollutions of this degenerate age. There will be a people who hold so fast to the divine strength that they will be proof against every temptation. {Mar 91.5}

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gustave]

The O.P. was stated in standard ''creature christ'' language, this is SDA theology....

...And the primary reason I started the thread on the Nicene Creed.

...I'll break down what jamessonofthunder was saying.

A) God is undefeatable, can't be killed, period!

Jesus could have sinned and could have lost His Salvation according to Ellen White.

C) Jesus isn't God, period.

Now to be fair the above isn't just SDA theology and Biblical Process....

...The exact teaching can be found in EVERY Arian Church.

...Creature christ needed to be perfected or evolve from a Liability to actual Savior.

Scripture is frankly BLUNT about pointing out Jesus was the Christ in Eternity....

...In other words Jesus was the Christ before He got here.

...In other words whatever IT is that makes the Father "God".

...Is co-equally owned by Christ therefore Christ is God no different then the Father & Holy Spirit is God.

Another thing Sacred Scripture is frankly BLUNT about is that Christ was ETERNALLY perfect....

...And that means eternally prior to the Incarnation and eternally after the Incarnation.

...Thus there is no gradations of perfection - thus there is no creature christ.

Ephesians 1,9

Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh ALL THINGS after the counsel of his own will

That just said that Christ was the Father's PURPOSE...

...And it's easy to see what happens when it's JUST God taking care of things.

Acts 3,18

But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.

of course it wasn't just that Christ would suffer that was predestined....

...It was also the purpose of God that Christ would raise from the dead on the 3rd day.

Luke 24,15

And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them. But their eyes were holden that they should not know him.

And he said unto them, What manner of communications are these that ye have one to another, as ye walk, and are sad?

And the one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answering said unto him, Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem, and hast not known the things which are come to pass there in these days?

And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people: And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him. But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done. Yea, and certain women also of our company made us astonished, which were early at the sepulchre; And when they found not his body, they came, saying, that they had also seen a vision of angels, which said that he was alive. And certain of them which were with us went to the sepulchre, and found it even so as the women had said: but him they saw not. Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe ALL that the prophets have spoken: Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

The Prophets were EXPLICIT that it was IMPOSSIBLE for Christ to fail...

...He was ETERNALLY the Christ by the purpose of God.

...Thus the Arian creature christ doctrine of the Jehovah's Witnesses, WWCOG and SDA's is false.

Please re-think your theological position james and other SDA's who still hold...

...To the Historic SDA / Ellen White theology of creature christ.

[Robert]

Jesus is God (He has always been God), and at the incarnation He took upon His sinless Deity, our fallen, sinful life from Adam in order to legally redeem it from the curse of the law.

The Pope doesn't preach this gospel, Gustave. He preaches "another gospel, which is really no gospel at all.

[Gustave]

Jesus is God (He has always been God), and at the incarnation He took upon His sinless Deity, our fallen, sinful life from Adam in order to legally redeem it from the curse of the law.

The Pope doesn't preach this gospel, Gustave. He preaches "another gospel, which is really no gospel at all.

When you say that Christ "took upon" our fallen sinful life....

...Do you mean to say that God became man WITHOUT ceasing to be fully God?

...Or do you mean that Christ became less than the Father or Holy Spirit.

...And instead of actually being the eternal Christ BECAME the Christ when He proved He did't sin & loose His own Salvation?

[Gustave]

Jesus is God (He has always been God), and at the incarnation He took upon His sinless Deity, our fallen, sinful life from Adam in order to legally redeem it from the curse of the law.

The Pope doesn't preach this gospel, Gustave. He preaches "another gospel, which is really no gospel at all.

Robert, here is a question for you to consider and answer.

What possibility would there be that God the Father when traveling through the universe...

...Could get to close to a star that will Super Nova thus resulting in God being killed?

...What possibility is there in that happening?

[Robert]

...Do you mean to say that God became man WITHOUT ceasing to be fully God?

No, He remained fully God, but He handed the independent use of His Deity over to the Father. At the incarnation Christ's Deity was mysteriously blended with our fallen life in the womb of Mary. Christ lived as a man....He was the 2nd Adam and in our humanity He lived a perfect life according to God's law. And at the cross that humanity died forever. Hence in Christ we were made obedient and in Christ we died the curse of the law. The law has been legally upheld.

[Robert]

...Could get to close to a star that will Super Nova thus resulting in God being killed?

God cannot die....He is immortal...He is the source of both immortality and agape. As Ellen White correctly stated, "Deity did not sink and die, humanity died"!

[Gustave]

No, He remained fully God, but He handed the independent use of His Deity over to the Father. At the incarnation Christ's Deity was mysteriously blended with our fallen life in the womb of Mary. Christ lived as a man....He was the 2nd Adam and in our humanity He lived a perfect life according to God's law. And at the cross that humanity died forever. Hence in Christ we were made obedient and in Christ we died the curse of the law. The law has been legally upheld.

If God the Father is "fully God" than what percentage chance would there be in God The Father....

...Getting to close to close to super Nova'd star and getting Himself killed?

[Robert]

If God the Father is "fully God" than what percentage chance would there be in God The Father....

...Getting to close to close to super Nova'd star and getting Himself killed?

Uh, again, Deity didn't die, humanity did. God made a body for Christ - a human body....He took that life from Mary's womb and united it to Christ as God. See Heb 10

BTW, the HOLY Spirit is in you (if you are a believer). If you die He doesn't. He is immortal, you are mortal.

Christ is God. He is immortal. He took our humanity into Himself. That life was mortal because it was our life after the fall.

[Gustave]

Originally Posted By: Gustave

...Could get to close to a star that will Super Nova thus resulting in God being killed?

God cannot die....He is immortal...He is the source of both immortality and agape. As Ellen White correctly stated, "Deity did not sink and die, humanity died"!

You realize that Ellen White was clear that the two Natures of Christ had become BLENDED....

...Resulting in an alien single nature that wasn't fully God or fully human, right?

Ellen White, ST April 14, 1898

Christ's humanity could NOT be separated from His divinity

Thus "IF" Christ had sinned whatever is was that was Christ prior to the Incarnation....

...Would have died and subsequently been annihilated by Father God.

...Should you care to debate this Seventh-day Adventist fact with me you certainly found the right person to do it with.

Ellen White, L5,1900 SDA BC Volume 7,page 926

He became subject to temptation, endangering as it were, HIS DIVINE attributes. Satan sought, by the constant and curious devices of his cunning, to make Christ yield to temptation

Ellen White

Though Christ humbled Himself to become man, the Godhead was still His own. His Deity could not be lost WHILE He stood faithful and true to His loyalty

Ellen White, DA 131

Then as the glories of the eternal home burst upon our enraptured senses we shall remember that Jesus left all this for us, that He not ONLY became an exile from the heavenly courts, BUT for us took the risk of failure AND eternal loss

Now, I ask you again. What possibility is there in God the Father, being "fully" God.....

...In having a cosmic accident that could result in God the Father's eternal death?

When you are done with answering this you will see how it ties in DIRECTLY....

...With how Todd Vetter was able to conclude what he has concluded.

...And how the Catholic Church is NOT the enemy here.

[Robert]

You realize that Ellen White was clear that the two Natures of Christ had become BLENDED....

...Resulting in an alien single nature that wasn't fully God or fully human, right?

Stop with the drugs. I can get you help....

How can I take you seriously, man! I mean come on!?!

Was the human nature of the Son of Mary changed into the divine nature of the Son of God? No; the two natures were mysteriously blended in one person—the man Christ Jesus. In Him dwelt all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. When Christ was crucified, it was His human nature that died. Deity did not sink and die; that would have been impossible. Christ, the sinless One, will save every son and daughter of Adam who accepts the salvation proffered them, consenting to become the children of God. The Saviour has purchased the fallen race with His own blood. 5BC 1113.2

Jesus, as God, remained Himself. Jesus, as the Son of Man, remained Himself. They were "blended" - they weren't changed into each other.

Again, the Holy Spirit is in the believer. The two are in one body, but the Holy Spirit is not the believer and the believer is not the holy Spirit. Each remains himself in one body.

See?

[Gustave]

Stop with the drugs. I can get you help....

How can I take you seriously, man! I mean come on!?!

Was the human nature of the Son of Mary changed into the divine nature of the Son of God? No; the two natures were mysteriously blended in one person—the man Christ Jesus. In Him dwelt all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. When Christ was crucified, it was His human nature that died. Deity did not sink and die; that would have been impossible. Christ, the sinless One, will save every son and daughter of Adam who accepts the salvation proffered them, consenting to become the children of God. The Saviour has purchased the fallen race with His own blood. 5BC 1113.2

Jesus, as God, remained Himself. Jesus, as the Son of Man, remained Himself. They were "blended" - they weren't changed into each other.

Again, the Holy Spirit is in the believer. The two are in one body, but the Holy Spirit is not the believer and the believer is not the holy Spirit. Each remains himself in one body.

"IF" Robert, "IF" Christ didn't sin.....

...What did Ellen White say WOULD HAPPEN to the pre-Incarnate Christ had He sinned?

...I've already given you several explicit quotes from Ellen White.

...And have many more where those came from if you still need help.

If it were possible for Christ to sin does that sound like "fully God" to you?

The mistake you make is assuming that Catholics are dull and can't research your own theology.

[Gibs]

Believe this or not, as I will not argue this with any, if you don't and cannot see it, that is fine.

The Deity in Christ was and is the Father in Him, He, Jesus is not another God. There is no Trinity of Gods. The Holy Spirit is God, that is what God is, Spirit.

2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

And, know Jesus said this and if one would know He would,

Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

The Deity the Father vested in Our Redeemer is returned to the father when Jesus Christ accomplishes what He was sent to do.

Read carefully,

1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Now God the Father is ALL IN ALL finally again and Jesus is King Jesus and the Prince of the Father and heaven and all, but now subject to the Father. A Redeemer is no longer and ever will be needed again and so Jesus returns to the Father that investment that He again is ALL IN ALL!

Notice verse 25 above that He Reigns supreme until His Job is done.

He bought us, we are His subjects and He is our wonderful and rightful King Jesus. He will have a new name then too,

Re 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Now notice this,

Re 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gustave]

Believe this or not, as I will not argue this with any, if you don't and cannot see it, that is fine.

The Deity in Christ was and is the Father in Him, He, Jesus is not another God. There is no Trinity of Gods. The Holy Spirit is God, that is what God is, Spirit.

2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

And, know Jesus said this and if one would know He would,

Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

The Deity the Father vested in Our Redeemer is returned to the father when Jesus Christ accomplishes what He was sent to do.

Read carefully,

1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Now God the Father is ALL IN ALL finally again and Jesus is King Jesus and the Prince of the Father and heaven and all, but now subject to the Father. A Redeemer is no longer and ever will be needed again and so Jesus returns to the Father that investment that He again is ALL IN ALL!

Notice verse 25 above that He Reigns supreme until His Job is done.

He bought us, we are His subjects and He is our wonderful and rightful King Jesus. He will have a new name then too,

Re 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Now notice this,

Re 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

So Christ was "vested" with "Deity" by Father God?

...What was Christ prior to this "vestment"?

[Gibs]

Before Bethlehem, He was LORD OF HOSTS.

Isa 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

He served as Commander of Heaven.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gustave]

Before Bethlehem, He was LORD OF HOSTS.

Isa 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

He served as Commander of Heaven.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

So, in your theology is "Lord of Hosts" AKA "God"?

...Is Christ "God" because He eternally & co-equally shares in the same Substance that makes The Father, God?

[Gibs]

Yes, God the Father brought "LORD of HOSTS" from himself. He is not a born entity at that time or a created one. He and the Father are one substance.

Joh 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

Then at Bethlehem, Heaven was emptied of Lord of Hosts and incorporated into the babe in Mary, He was that Holy Thing, condescended to come and be God with us. Yes truly God the Father with us in Jesus Christ. Divinity covered with humanity that we might live in his Presence.

Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Robert]

Quote:

If it were possible for Christ to sin does that sound like "fully God" to you?

You are getting desperate, aren't you? Now you've gone to another topic.

Yes, Christ as the Son of Man could have sinned, but He didn't. That's a good thing. Remember, as God, He had laid aside the independent use of His Deity over to His Father's control.

That's why Jesus as the Son of man said, “I can do nothing of myself.” John 6:57 says, “I live by the Father.” See also John 8:28 and John 14:10. All these texts state very clearly that Christ was totally God-dependent.

As God He was omniscient, but as a man He had to grow in wisdom and stature.

[Gustave]

You are getting desperate, aren't you? Now you've gone to another topic.

[Gibs]

Quote:

If it were possible for Christ to sin does that sound like "fully God" to you?

You are getting desperate, aren't you? Now you've gone to another topic.

Yes, Christ as the Son of Man could have sinned, but He didn't. That's a good thing. Remember, as God, He had laid aside the independent use of His Deity over to His Father's control.

That's why Jesus as the Son of man said, “I can do nothing of myself.” John 6:57 says, “I live by the Father.” See also John 8:28 and John 14:10. All these texts state very clearly that Christ was totally God-dependent.

As God He was omniscient, but as a man He had to grow in wisdom and stature.

Fully God and fully man but cannot be considered as we as His Father is God

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Yes it was possible for Him to have fallen in sin, as we see Satan really went after it believing he could fall Him as he did Adam.

Nor can we do anything of ourselvelves, but Christ in us we have the same power He had.

Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Fully god in the body of a man.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Robert]

All nonsense....You need to understand the gospel. Read Paul, without the Pope's help, and you will learn the gospel.