Jesus came "to become perfected" in the flesh, not born that way.

[Gustave]

Come on, Gustave. The above text explains what it means to be "without sin". He was tempted, but He didn't sin. It does not say that He didn't assume our humanity indwelt with sin.

[Robert]

In Matters of Faith and Morals when speaking officially YES....The Church absolutely claims infallibility.

Is that why they had most of the Reformers murdered? I'll tell you what the Pope is - a modern day Pharisee who claims Christ. It's a mix of Christianity and Old Covenant principles. Part error, part truth. It's called Babylon, but Babylon has not yet fallen and therefore there's time to accept the gospel - the truth as it is "in Christ". Many Catholics will accept the message...many Adventists will join Roman.

That's all I have to say about that...

[Robert]

That's all I have to say about that!

[Gustave]

Is that why they had most of the Reformers murdered? I'll tell you what the Pope is - a modern day Pharisee who claims Christ. It's a mix of Christianity and Old Covenant principles. Part error, part truth.

[Robert]

This isn't about EGW. It's about the gospel.

[Gustave]

This isn't about EGW. It's about the gospel.

According to the New Testament Christ was already ETERNALLY the Christ before His Incarnation...

...The Law said this, the Prophets said this & Jesus Himself said this.

...Jesus also said that everything that was said about His suffering and resurrection HAD TO TAKE PLACE.

...Otherwise the Scriptures would not be fulfilled!

If Christ would have sinned the Scriptures would have been broken!

....God would have been made a fool out of by the Devil.

....Given Arians and Ellen White is the ONLY place you can get this type of teaching.

We can know beyond any doubt how far Ellen ranks over anything written in Scripture according to SDA's....

...I've just demonstrated it.

[Robert]

Again, it's not about Ellen, it's about the gospel~

[Gibs]

No Gustave SDA's are not to hold EGW over the scriptures. When she stated "I saw" or "I was shown though one better sit up and take notice.

Yes our redeemer and His for us was set up by the Father before anything.

Isa 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

LORD as used above is the Divine Name, YHWH, translitterad, most times as Yahweh.

LORD of Hosts, the Father sent Him out from Himself in the very beginning before anything,

Joh 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

LORD of Hosts at that time was the equal of Himself and of Himself, His Own Substance.

He the Redeemer could not come to us this way as He needed blood to shed and in all His Glory sinful man would be consumed.

So it was that They decided The Redeemer would have to be one of us, His Divinity covered with Humanity and that He would have no power but we CAN have to over come the Devil and appear as any of us. So the fact remains, many did think that He was but a mere man and not God with us in the body of a man.

Yes, fully God in a body,

Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Then He would have blood to shed and could be the Lamb of God.

That body was born of Mary and that babe that was in her held the indwelling Deity of LORD of Hosts.

Mary was a woman from the seed of David, the linage of Jesus Christ came through her, not Joseph.

Yes as a man as one of us, He had the indwelling of the Father of which we may have the same equivalent and was made as us free to choose to sin or not to sin as was the first Adam. Jesus is the second Adam. He had to overcome Satan from the same level as the first Adam, and He did, Glory be!

Now do you not know Satan knew this very well, that now he had the same chance to overcome this second Adam as he did the first. Yes he sure did, or he would not have tried a useless lot of work that if he failed would only make his case far for the worse.

Now here is a revelation for many from this verse, read and assimilate carefully.

Ac 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gustave]

Again, it's not about Ellen, it's about the gospel~

Let's go slow Robert.

BIBLE:

Luke 24,44 ( Jesus saying )

And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that ALL things MUST be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me

Luke 22,37

For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me , And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end

Mark 8,31

And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, AND be killed, and after three days rise again

Mark 9,31

For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he SHALL rise the third day .

That's Jesus telling you ( ROBERT ) what WOULD HAPPEN, what HAD TO HAPPEN BEFORE IT HAPPENED.....

....Remember Jesus UNEQUIVOCALLY said the Scirptures COULDN'T be broken.

....And that the Law & Prophets said He would rise to glory.

Had Jesus sinned ( and as Ellen White Gloated ) LOST HIS SALVATION.....

...Jesus couldn't have raised from the dead = the Scriptures would have been broken.

The Scriptures being broken would have made God out to be a fool...

...How would God have looked when reminded of the following "worthless Scriptures"?

Isaiah 9,6

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts WILL perform this

Daniel 2,44

And in the days of these kings SHALL the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed : and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever . Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure

Ellen White repudiated the great God of heaven by replacing what God said WOULD happen.....

...With what MIGHT HAVE HAPPENED.

Ellen hammered the point that Christ could have sinned and lost His own salvation.....

...And that if it would have happened God would have had no choice but to eternally ANNIHILATE Christ.

...Thus if Christ would have sinned He would have rotted in the tomb.

A terrible end for poor creature christ!

Now, I've just laid it out for you again Robert....

...This has everything to do with "Ellen G. White".

...I've demonstrated that in pecking order the Bible comes in well BELOW your 'woman prophet'.

[Robert]

You aren't reading....It's not about Ellen, it's about the gospel. Chill!

[phkrause]

You aren't reading....It's not about Ellen, it's about the gospel. Chill!

You got that right Robert, problem is some just have an agenda.

[Gustave]

You got that right Robert, problem is some just have an agenda.

1 John 4,3

And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ IS COME in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

The Gospel Pkrause is that "God Almighty", became man without ceasing to be God...

...This was realized in the Person of Jesus, The Christ.

...Who was manifested to destroy the works of the Devil.

That Scripture WARNS Christians to be on the watchout for teachings that suggest ANYTHING less than God Almighty...

...Became man in the Person of Jesus Christ.

Because Ellen White promulgated something possible that God ad nausem said was IMPOSSIBLE...

...I call attention to that most obvious fact.

...That's the agenda here.

[Gibs]

Gustave she made 44 statements of this ,

"He is the express image of the Father's person. "In him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily" (Colossians 2:9). {1SM 295.2}

She always upheld Him as God with us.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Robert]

1 John 4,3

And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ IS COME in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

The Son of God united Himself with our fallen humanity through the incarnation. Jesus, the Son of God, never ceased to be God, but rather took upon Himself (or took into Himself) our fallen life that needed redeeming.

[Gustave]

Originally Posted By: Gustave

1 John 4,3

And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ IS COME in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

The Son of God united Himself with our fallen humanity through the incarnation. Jesus, the Son of God, never ceased to be God, but rather took upon Himself (or took into Himself) our fallen life that needed redeeming.

Are you saying Christ "worked out" His own Salvation....

...He was Incarnated into lost flesh therefore.

...It was required that He "had to become PERFECTED in His flesh"?

Geeze, this O.P. is even more sinister than I thought it was....

...A Baptist would freak out if you said such a thing to them!

...I'm screen shotting this.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

Jesus, the Son of God, never ceased to be God, but rather took upon Himself (or took into Himself) our fallen life that needed redeeming.

"“And now I have told you before it comes, that when it does come to pass, you may believe. I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler of this world is coming, and he has nothing in Me. But that the world may know that I love the Father, and as the Father gave Me commandment, so I do." John 14:29-31 NKJV underlined bold mine LHC

"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new."2 Corinthians 5:17 NKJV

God blesses!

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

...I'm screen shotting this.

I'm hoping your not passing that off as Adventist teaching.

God blesses!

[Robert]

for the ruler of this world is coming, and he has nothing in Me

This means that Christ never sinned, not even by a thought. It does not mean that Christ as God did not assume our humanity, indwelt with sin.

[Gustave]

Quote:

...I'm screen shotting this.

I'm hoping your not passing that off as Adventist teaching.

God blesses!

You tell me, I'm the odd man out here and that's exactly what Robert said...

...Do you not agree with it?

[Gustave]

Originally Posted By: LifeHiscost

for the ruler of this world is coming, and he has nothing in Me

This means that Christ never sinned, not even by a thought. It does not mean that Christ as God did not assume our humanity, indwelt with sin.

Robert, the Bible is clear that "a man" ( a person ) is ONLY tempted....

...When they are offered something that they ALREADY yearn or lust for.

...If the person doesn't lust or yearn for gay sex.

...Then the person isn't TEMPTED WITHIN THEMSELVES for gay sex.

Do you understand that?

If you are not gay Robert and an attractive gay person walks up to you and asks if you want to have sex with them....

...It can indeed be said that you were tempted by or of a gay man!

...It is absolutely not true to say YOU, YOURSELF were tempted.

...Because just like the Bible says YOU are only tempted if you already yearned for gay sex!

...If you are gay you will have to RESIST the pull you feel.

...OR you will allow your yearning to give birth to the infant sin ALREADY IN YOU!

You can apply this with every temptation of Christ....

...I get the ideas that SDA's believe that Jesus yearned to steal, have sex with hookers, etc.

...But Jesus resisted His own lusts and yearnings to do those things.

That's what I'm hearing you and a several other SDA's say....

...So is that it Robert?

[Gustave]

Originally Posted By: LifeHiscost

for the ruler of this world is coming, and he has nothing in Me

This means that Christ never sinned, not even by a thought. It does not mean that Christ as God did not assume our humanity, indwelt with sin.

Here we go with the Christ as God stuff again.....

..Robert, Ellen White said the pre-Incarnate Christ steaked his future eternal existence by Incarnating.

That pretty much removes your theory of a Christ as man and Christ as God....

...This appears to be a mechanism you've fabricated to deal with Ellen White's Arianism.

[Gerr]

Robert, the Bible is clear that "a man" ( a person ) is ONLY tempted....

...When they are offered something that they ALREADY yearn or lust for.

...If the person doesn't lust or yearn for gay sex.

...Then the person isn't TEMPTED WITHIN THEMSELVES for gay sex.

Do you understand that?

Hmmmmm. Let's see. If that's what the Bible says, was Lucifer created with some yearning to murder someone? Were Adam & Eve created with some yearning to sin?

Quote:

You can apply this with every temptation of Christ....

...I get the ideas that SDA's believe that Jesus yearned to steal, have sex with hookers, etc.

...But Jesus resisted His own lusts and yearnings to do those things.

That's what I'm hearing you and a several other SDA's say....

...So is that it Robert?

Now I'm confused. On the one hand you say that the Bible teaches that one cannot be tempted unless there is already a yearning for whatever a person is being tempted with. Then on the other hand, that is what you claim to hear SDA's are saying. Could you please clarify?

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

Here we go with the Christ as God stuff again.

So do you see this to be Truth, Gustave?

"In the beginning the Word already existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.

So the Word became human and made his home among us. He was full of unfailing love and faithfulness. And we have seen his glory, the glory of the Father’s one and only Son."John 1:1,14 NLT

"I and My Father are one.”"John 10:3o NKJV

"For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one."1 John 5:7 NKJV

There is no doubt, to me anyway, this is more than my limited view can fully comprehend. Nevertheless, Jesus' words to Philip are enough for me to accept it.

"Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father....’?"John 14:9 NKJV

God blesses!

[Gustave]

Hmmmmm. Let's see. If that's what the Bible says, was Lucifer created with some yearning to murder someone? Were Adam & Eve created with some yearning to sin?

[Gibs]

Gustave you are not reading and seeing what is said and brought out, please do this read I post with understanding what I am telling you and what the scripture is telling you.

When you get it clear there is no Trinity it may help. Jesus was God because the Father was in Him. He had no more power from God to overcome than we do. Yes He was sent with the liability to be overcome by Satan as we are. He was fully God in a body, yes but came as one of us to have to overcome same as us with His indwelling.

Re 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

That means one thing, we have the same power with His indwelling as He had. He in us is the Father in us too as that who was in Him reconciling the world to Himself. Read,

2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Don't you see if we overcome as He did we must have the same power, strength or advantage as He.

He came to "succor" us, show us it could be done in us as it was in Him.

Heb 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

How could He be tempted if He didn't have the liability to sin?

Not possible!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

_________________________