Jesus came "to become perfected" in the flesh, not born that way.

[Gustave]

Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

How could one be tempted if He was NOT subject to fall into the temptation? Not possible.

[Robert]

You are making this more complicated then it needs to be, Gustave.

God took Christ's Deity and combined with our humanity, in the womb of Mary, that need redeeming. That's the whole point of the incarnation.

[John317]

X10

[Gustave]

You are making this more complicated then it needs to be, Gustave.

God took Christ's Deity and combined with our humanity, in the womb of Mary, that need redeeming. That's the whole point of the incarnation.

God, took on an additional nature ( our human nature )and added it to His existing Divine Nature....

...At no point in this addition did the Divine Nature become less then it always had been.

SDA's say things like the man Jesus and the God Jesus...

...This is how Jehovah's Witnesses describe Christ when speaking of his liability to sin.

...They are Arian in theology.

[Gibs]

Gibs, there are three living, distinct, divine Persons in the eternal Godhead-- do you agree?

Christ is not only "pre-existent" but He is "self-existent." That is why Christ is also rightly called "Yahweh" or "Jehovah."

He is called Yahweh and is Yahweh because He and the Father are ONE! Why do people have trouble with God the one to whom nothing is impossible seeing He could not of Himself bring from Himself an equal to be the creator and redeemer.

No I soundly reject three Divine persons in the Godhead. The Holy Spirit is not another God but is God,

Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Jesus is the man, the body prepared that the Redeemer, Yahweh of Hosts to dwell in in that He, the Father would be with us, He was Emmanuel, God with us. There is but ONE God!

Isa 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Who is doing the speaking above? Does it make any difference? No! they are ONE, they are the "elohiym"

LORD of Hosts is the one that God the Father sent forth from Himself, Jesus says I proceeded and came forth from Him, I was sent.

Joh 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

Isa 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any

Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Yes Jesus was God the Father with us as the Father dwelt in Him!

Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

In Substance, - Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.

"The words of Christ were full of deep meaning as he put forth the claim that he and the Father were of one substance, possessing the same attributes."--The Signs of the Times, Nov. 27, 1893, p. 54. {7ABC 437.3}

Notice that "elohiym", God, is one LORD or Yahweh!

De 6:4 ¶ Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

No Trinity, 2 persons in the Godhead, the Father and Jesus Christ made our redeemer with His indwelling.

When Jesus has this sin problem completly done as He was sent out of the Father to do, then again the Father can be ALL in ALL again as No Redeemer will ever be needed again.

Very few ever read the following passage and realize all that is said here. But I post it for your try at it.

1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gustave]

No I soundly reject three Divine persons in the Godhead. The Holy Spirit is not another God but is God,

You may not realize it but you just affirmed that Christ is not God....

...Because you admitted that Jesus is something other than God Almighty.

...This is Classic or Historic Adventism.

In this case Gibs you should really listen to John317....

...When he said: "there are three living, distinct, divine Persons in the eternal Godhead"

All three of these distinct Persons co-equally share in the ONE Substance that IS God....

....The names of these three distinct Persons describe their relationship to each other.

....The Substance they co-equally possess is ONE.

God the Father isn't God because He is the Father...

...It's because He possesses the Substance which IS God.

...The same goes for God the Son & God the Holy Spirit.

[Robert]

God, took on an additional nature ( our human nature )and added it to His existing Divine Nature.......At no point in this addition did the Divine Nature become less then it always had been.

God isn't a "nature". We aren't "natures".

God is "spirit". What doe that mean? I don't know, but He can take the form a human (like Christ when He appeared to Abraham).

Jesus is God. He is Spirit. At the incarnation Jesus, as God, was united or joined to our humanity in the womb of Mary. Our humanity, not our nature. Our nature is our disposition. Our nature is bent to self, meaning we are born in love with ourselves and everything we do, without Christ, is for our gain and our benefit.

Christ, as God, was united to our humanity that was bent to self. So at the incarnation you had divinity, which is Spirit, united to our humanity in it's fallen condition.

Why did God unite Christ's Deity to our fallen humanity? To rewrite our history. It's called the gospel.

Just before the incarnation Christ, as God, handed over the independent use of His Deity over to His Father. Hence Christ, as a human, had no advantage. Yet He lived a perfect life of obedience to His Father's law and then He, as the 2nd Adam, died the death that the broken law demanded. Hence "in Christ" we have been redeemed from "the curse of the law" - the 2nd death.

[Robert]

Christ, as God, was united to our humanity that was bent to self. So at the incarnation you had divinity, which is Spirit, united to our humanity in it's fallen condition.

Again, take the reverse of this.

When you accepted Christ, He sent you the Holy Spirit (again, God - who is Spirit too) to live in you. The Holy Spirit can't be a person because that would be problematic. The Holy Spirit is not limited to time and space. Nevertheless He dwells in your mind (whatever that means). The point, though, is that Deity resides in you. So, let' break this down:

Deity is in you because you accepted Christ as your Savoir. However, you aren't Deity. Right? I mean to say you are Deity is blasphemy, right? So the Spirit isn't contaminated by your sinful disposition (nature) because He remains fully Himself (i.e., God).

In other words just because the Spirit of God is in you doesn't mean that Has become you and therefore He has a sinful nature too. That nature belongs to you alone because you are a child of Adam. You had no choice in the matter. You were born bent to self. You were born with a sinful nature.

Now Christ, who is God...who is Spirit, was untied to our fallen humanity in the womb of Mary. Did Christ, as God, cease to be God? No! He remained Himself (as does the Holy Spirit in you). Christ's Deity didn't have a sinful nature...He only had a Divine nature.

However, the human in the womb of Mary, had a sinful nature. It belonged to our humanity after the fall. Did that human become God because Christ, as God, was dwelling in that humanity? No (just like you do not become God because God is dwelling in you)!

So Jesus remained Himself, God. However, just before God the Father united the Deity of Christ to our humanity that needed redeeming, He had Christ as God hand over the independent use of His Deity to God the Father. Therefore He, Christ as one of us (a human), lived without a knowledge that He was God until the Father revealed it to Him. Hence, as a human, He grew in wisdom and in stature.

[Gibs]

No Gustave, I just affirmed that Jesus Christ is and was God the FATHER with us, not another God, Yes He was God with as a man living among us and is yet in the Heavenly Sanctuary ministering in our behalf as our High Priest.

You had posted this.,

Originally Posted By: Gibs

No I soundly reject three Divine persons in the Godhead. The Holy Spirit is not another God but is God,

The bond of Humanity with God the Father Himself was who Jesus Christ was. He'll ever be one of us, even in His Kingdom as the Prince of the Father and our King who bought us with His Blood.

Fully God the Father dwelt in Him, His Body,

Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

As I pointed out in a post above though when Jesus has accomplished what He is sent out of His Father to do, then and only then can the Father be ALL in ALL again.

He will be without doubt the second in command from Heaven, but now the Prince of the Father and our eternal King. We are His purchased subjects and each is His willing loving obedient subjects for eternity.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gustave]

God isn't a "nature". We aren't "natures".

[Robert]

...at the incarnation Christ's Deity united itself with our fallen humanity in the womb of Mary.....

Heb 10:5 Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: "Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body (a human body) you prepared for me (as God).

That body came from Mary. Who was Mary? Answer: A child of Adam, after the fall. Hence Mary owned a fallen, human nature. She was a sinner saved by grace. Therefore the only type of humanity she could pass on to Christ, as the son of mankind, was a sinful, fallen life.

Keep in mind that all this time Christ was God. He became what He was not (a child of Adam) while remaining Himself, God. The moment Christ, as the Son of Man, was born He came under the curse of the law, but not for disobeying. Rather because He had "our" nature in His assumed humanity.

For thirty something years Christ never sinned by even a thought. He lived a perfect life while in our humanity. And on the cross God abandon Him to the "curse of the law" (the 2nd death), again not because He sinned, but because assumed our humanity under the curse because it was indwelt with iniquity.

You see the source of our sinning is due to our natures. Without Christ all we can do is sin. Even the so called good works are done with for our gain - our benefit. We are born bent-to-self.

Romans 8:3 God did this by "sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he (God) condemned sin (where?) in sinful man

How did God condemn sin in our humanity? By dressing it up or trying to improve on human nature? No! He condemned sin, in the humanity Christ assumed, to forever destroy our bent-to-self (sin).

Therefore, you can say with Paul, "we know that our old self (our life from Adam) was crucified with him (Christ as God) so that the body of sin (our humanity indwelt with sin) might be done away with..." [Rom 6:6]

[Gustave]

Originally Posted By: Robert

Christ as God never' date=' ever possessed a fallen, human nature! However, the humanity that Christ, as God, united His Deity to was our humanity after the fall. That humanity was indwelt with iniquity (our bent to self).

Christ as God? What is that supposed to mean...

...As if there were two Persons - one God and the other man!

...More Arianism Robert!

Mary was the Mother of a Person Robert...

...That Person was Jesus who had both a Divine and Human Nature.

...You honestly don't realize how rank the Arianism runs within Adventism.

Originally Posted By: Robert

It's really quite simply once you've come to understand the gospel.

I do understand it Robert.

Originally Posted By: Robert

Again, Christ is God.

Under your own admitted rubric Christ "as God" is God....

...Christ as man is not God.

...You realize you've said this 10 ways to Sunday already!

...This is heretical alien theology.

Originally Posted By: Robert

He has always been God and will always be God, but at the incarnation Christ's Deity united itself with our fallen humanity in the womb of Mary. Why? Because Christ came to save humanity after the fall, not before.

Here we go again with ground we covered in the Nicene Creed thread...

...You are getting this from Ellen White and the other early SDA Arians.

...You are absolutly NOT getting this idea from Scripture.

Why don't you direct me to the Scriptures you believe teach....

...That Christ's human nature united itself with iniquitius human nature???

...Why is is that SDA's use the word "united" & "blended" in the same context of the H.U.?

Originally Posted By: Robert

“He (Christ as God) took upon His sinless nature our (not His) sinful nature, that He might know how to succor those that are tempted.” {MM 181.3}

[/quote']

Like I told Gibs Robert - a medical Doctor does not have to became gay, practice gay sex and contract HIV...

...Prior to treating a homosexual with HIV / AIDS!

As far as your suggestion that Christ adtoped a human nature saturated with iniquity....

...Consider the following.

2 Chron 19,7

Wherefore now let the fear of the LORD be upon you; take heed and do it: for there is NO INIQUITY for there is no iniquity with the Lord our God

No means No Robert.

[John317]

No I soundly reject three Divine persons in the Godhead. The Holy Spirit is not another God but is God,

Ellen White herself defines "the eternal Godhead" as consisting of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, whom she says are three distinct Persons, Powers, or Beings.

But you are right that the Holy Spirit is "not another God but is God." We can say the same about the Father and the Son.

The SDA Church today doesn't teach that the Holy Spirit is "another God." The Holy Spirit is the "fullness of the Godhead," as are also Christ and the Father.

Check out the following quotes from Ellen G. White:

Quote:

The Godhead was stirred with pity for the race, and the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit gave Themselves to the working out of the plan of redemption. In order fully to carry out this plan, it was decided that Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, should give Himself an offering for sin. What line can measure the depth of this love? God would make it impossible for man to say that He could have done more.{CH 222}

The Comforter that Christ promised to send after He ascended to heaven is the Spirit in all the fullness of the Godhead, making manifest the power of divine grace to all who receive and believe in Christ as a personal Saviour. There are three living persons of the heavenly trio; in the name of these three great powers--the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit--those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized and these powers will cooperate with the obedient. {HP 336.2}

Those who have by baptism given to God a pledge of their faith in Christ, and their death to the old life of sin, have entered into covenant relation with God. The three powers of the Godhead, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, are pledged to be their strength and their efficiency in their new life in Christ Jesus. {AUCR, October 7, 1907 par. 9}

The rite of baptism is administered in the name of the Father, and of Son, and of the Holy Ghost. These three great powers of heaven pledge themselves to be the efficiency of all who submit to this ordinance, and who faithfully keep the vow they then make. {6 MR 27}

Here is where the work of the Holy Ghost comes in, after your baptism. You are baptized in the name of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. You are raised up out of the water to live henceforth in newness of life--to live a new life. You are born unto God, and you stand under the sanction and the power of the three holiest beings in heaven, who are able to keep you from falling. You are to reveal that you are dead to sin; your life is hid with Christ in God. Hidden "with Christ in God,"--wonderful transformation. This is a most precious promise. When I feel oppressed, and hardly know how to relate myself toward the work that God has given me to do, I just call upon the three great Worthies, and say; You know I cannot do this work in my own strength. You must work in me, and by me and through me, sanctifying my tongue, sanctifying my spirit, sanctifying my words, and bringing me into a position where my spirit shall be susceptible to the movings of the Holy Spirit of God upon my mind and character. {7MR 267, 268}

[John317]

Mary was the Mother of a Person Robert...

...That Person was Jesus who had both a Divine and Human Nature.

Yes, Mary was the mother of a Person. But as you say, Christ had two natures-- a human and a divine nature.

Mary was not the mother of God. She didn't begin the divine nature of Christ. His divine nature is eternal and never had a beginning. His human nature began when Jesus was conceived in Mary's womb.

So, "holy Mary, mother of God..." is a false doctrine. Nowhere does the Bible teach it.

[John317]

2 Chron 19,7

Wherefore now let the fear of the LORD be upon you; take heed and do it: for there is NO INIQUITY for there is no iniquity with the Lord our God

Several important points:

1) Christ didn't walk this earth as "God Almighty" or as "the Lord our God." He walked the earth as a man named Jesus of Nazareth, a carpenter. (The Word became flesh.)

2) Christ chose not to sin. He chose to obey the Father's commandments. It was because of His choice that Christ did not sin-- a choice He made every moment of every day.

3) 2 Chron 19: 7 is not referring to Jesus of Nazareth but to the pre-existent Christ.

While it's true that Jesus of Nazareth-- the God-Man-- did not sin, His obedience to God was due to His choice.

[Robert]

So, "holy Mary, mother of God..." is a false doctrine. Nowhere does the Bible teach it.

Right....

[Robert]

Why don't you direct me to the Scriptures you believe teach......

Romans 6:6 "For we (i.e., we believers) know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin..."

Believers in Paul's day knew the gospel; they understood the truth as it was "in Christ"! They knew that when the Son of Man was crucified that their "old self" ("the body of sin") was done away with so that one day they too could receive a glorified, humanity free from indwelling sin.

The same idea is seen in Romans 8:2-3

2 For the law of the Spirit of life (the Holy Spirit, where?) in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.

Are you personally free from "the law of sin" (your sin nature) and death? No! You are still mortal and you still retain a sinful nature.

So Romans 8:2 is referring to our humanity that Christ (as God) assumed at the incarnation. Notice that it was delivered from "the law of sin" - the sin nature! How?

verse 3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did (how?) by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and on account of sin, He (God the Father) condemned sin (where?) in the flesh (i.e., in our humanity)

Again, same idea. Our humanity died "in Christ" and therefore our old life from Adam died. Hence our body indwelt with sin died when Christ as the Son of man died.

Here's another one:

Romans 7:4 "you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ..."

What did Paul state, Gustave? "YOU" (that's right...I'm yelling) died...where? "in the body of Christ"

Now, are "you" sinful or sinless? Do you have a sinful nature or not? Yes, you do. In fact ever since the fall our humanity (our bodies) have had in them indwelling sin. That's the sin nature.

If you died "in Christ" (i.e., your humanity died) then Christ took your humanity with all its liabilities. You, the sinner with the sin nature, died "in Christ".

[Gustave]

Originally Posted By: Gustave

Mary was the Mother of a Person Robert...

...That Person was Jesus who had both a Divine and Human Nature.

Originally Posted By: John317

Yes, Mary was the mother of a Person. But as you say, Christ had two natures-- a human and a divine nature.

So why all this Christ as God & Christ as man stuff?

...Jesus = God who became man WITHOUT ceasing to be God.

...ONE Person with two United Natures.

Christ the man & Christ the God doesn't sound like 1 Person to me John317....

...Can you seriously tell me it sounds like one person to you?

Originally Posted By: John317

Mary was not the mother of God.

Only Arians say that John317...

...And the Koran was quick to praise Arians for refusing to say it.

Originally Posted By: John317

She didn't begin the divine nature of Christ. His divine nature is eternal and never had a beginning. His human nature began when Jesus was conceived in Mary's womb.

I realize that John, that isn't why Catholics call Mary the Mother of God....

...Catholics call Mary the Mother of God because the ONE Person Jesus was "God".

...Jesus = God who became man WITHOUT CEASING to be God.

What you are saying that there was a Divine mind of Christ and a human mind of Christ...

...NO - God the Son became man WITHOUT CEASING to be God the Son.

So, "holy Mary, mother of God..." is a false doctrine. Nowhere does the Bible teach it.

[Gustave]

Romans 6:6 "For we (i.e., we believers) know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin..."

Believers in Paul's day knew the gospel; they understood the truth as it was "in Christ"! They knew that when the Son of Man was crucified that their "old self" ("the body of sin") was done away with so that one day they too could receive a glorified, humanity free from indwelling sin.

[Gustave]

Several important points:

1) Christ didn't walk this earth as "God Almighty" or as "the Lord our God." He walked the earth as a man named Jesus of Nazareth, a carpenter. (The Word became flesh.)

[Robert]

In the Likeness of is worlds apart from IN SINFUL FLESH Robert...

Neither does it mean unlikeness.

As I read the New Testament, I discovered something, that whenever the New Testament talks about the humanity of Christ, it always uses a qualifying word. In Romans 8:3 the qualifying word is “likeness.” In John 1:14 and Galatians 4:4 the word used is “made” or “to become.”

In 2 Corinthians 5:21 you have the word “made” also, “He was made sin.” In Hebrews 2:14 the qualifying word is “partake” or “share”: He shared in our humanity.

In other words, what the New Testament teaches is this: in the incarnation Jesus Christ became, was made, shared, what we are, but what we are did not belong to him by native right. We must never ever teach that Christ HAD a sinful nature. That would be heresy. That would be making Him altogether like us. He ASSUMED our sinful nature. He TOOK upon Himself what belongs to us, not to Him.

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Robert

Romans 6:6 "For we (i.e., we believers) know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin..."

Believers in Paul's day knew the gospel; they understood the truth as it was "in Christ"! They knew that when the Son of Man was crucified that their "old self" ("the body of sin") was done away with so that one day they too could receive a glorified, humanity free from indwelling sin.

At what point in that Scripture do you suggest it is promulgated or even remotely implied......That Jesus' body had ANY sin ( i.e. Jesus' old self, etc ).

That's the thing, it wasn't His - it was yours. As God He assumed your humanity. By taking you into Himself, Deity was not contaminated!

After all, the Holy Spirit, is not contaminated because He resides in your fallen, humanity, right? Then neither did the Son of God become sinful by dwelling in our fallen humanity. He assumed us in order to redeem us. Hence, if He didn't assume us (take us into Himself) then that which is not assumed is not redeemed and you & I remain in our sins and are lost....

[Robert]

Quote:

Romans 6:6 "For we know that our old self [our old life] was crucified (past tense, refers the cross) with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin....

Were "you" - the individual - crucified with Christ?

Answer: No! Why? You are reading this. Dead men or women can't read.

Then what died with Christ?

Answer: Our corporate, fallen humanity.

What is this?

We all share one life - the fallen, sinful life of Adam our father. We are copies of his fallen humanity. We came from Adam's loins. In other words when God created Adam He created the human race. He set into motion procreation, i.e., the mechanism that allows us as individuals to come out of Adam.

Since all of us as individuals share Adam's singular, fallen life the Son of God united Himself with our shared humanity in the womb of Mary. Hence the Son of God united Himself to our condemned race in order to redeem it from the curse of the law.

[Gustave]

Neither does it mean unlikeness.

As I read the New Testament, I discovered something, that whenever the New Testament talks about the humanity of Christ, it always uses a qualifying word. In Romans 8:3 the qualifying word is “likeness.”In John 1:14 and Galatians 4:4 the word used is “made” or “to become.”

In 2 Corinthians 5:21 you have the word “made” also, “He was made sin.” In Hebrews 2:14 the qualifying word is “partake” or “share”: He shared in our humanity.

In other words, what the New Testament teaches is this: in the incarnation Jesus Christ became, was made, shared, what we are, but what we are did not belong to him by native right. We must never ever teach that Christ HAD a sinful nature. That would be heresy. That would be making Him altogether like us. He ASSUMED our sinful nature. He TOOK upon Himself what belongs to us, not to Him.

Here Robert,

Hebrews 4,15

For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Robert, someone can come up to you and tempt you a thousand times...

...Indeed, it can be said you were tempted by so and so.

...Yet, IF the temptation was not something you lusted or yearned after.

...You, YOURSELF were NOT tempted.

G5565

1) separate, apart

a) without any

besides

Now, when you or I are tempted so that we must resist OUR Temptation....

...Let's see what the Bible says about that.

James 1,13

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his OWN lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. Do not err, my beloved brethren.

So, despite the Bible telling you while Jesus was tempted like we are tempted...

...And that Jesus was tempted OUTSIDE OF SIN.

...To protect Ellen White's status as a prophet you must agree Christ lusted and yearned for evil!

The Bible tells you that every man is himself tempted when he is DRAWN AWAY FROM HIS OWN LUST....

...And that the completed action BRINGS FORTH the sin.

...Thus evil Concupiscence is SIN!

But you knew that from the Nicene Creed thread.

Colo 3,5

Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

G1939

1) desire, craving, longing, desire for what is forbidden, lust

So, to protect the Arian Ellen White you claim that Christ lusted and yearned for what is forbidden in the law...

...That way you can deposit "He was tempted in all points like us" in your Arian bank account.

...The Historic Christian religion doesn't see it that way I'm afraid Robert.

But take solace in knowing that all the Arian groups that still exist believe as you do...

[Robert]

....was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.