The Trinity?

[Ted Oplinger]

Quote:

Can believers in the Trinity be saved as readily as

believers in the Godhead?

If so, then it's not a salvational issue.

Gordon,

This hits the issue square on the head - but the question needs to go both ways to make it most effective.

Can a believer be saved, regardless of their Christological understanding?

If so, then there nothing to be gained for anyone disagree in the most disagreeable way possible. I would posit the manner we proceed with our personal understanding of the issue is indicative of what spirit we are of.

Is the issue a salvational requirement? Not normally. Is it a wedge issue? Most certainly.

Blessings,

[Guest]

Truth is progressive. Better late than never.

About half the church now believes in some form of evolution, as to how we got here. Is that also progressing truth?

The overwhelming majority now believe that you will be saved IN your sins, instead of from them. Is this too, merely truth that is progressing?

It seems to me, that if there is any progression going on with truth, that it is not of the forward variety. The books of a new order that EGW said would come, started being written in the 1950s.

Better late than never?

[Guest]

Quote:

Can believers in the Trinity be saved as readily as

believers in the Godhead?

If so, then it's not a salvational issue.

Gordon,

This hits the issue square on the head - but the question needs to go both ways to make it most effective.

Can a believer be saved, regardless of their Christological understanding?

If so, then there nothing to be gained for anyone disagree in the most disagreeable way possible. I would posit the manner we proceed with our personal understanding of the issue is indicative of what spirit we are of.

Is the issue a salvational requirement? Not normally. Is it a wedge issue? Most certainly.

Blessings,

Words of wisdom.

[ClubV12]

These kinds of issues can also be applied to, IS the Seventh-day Adventist Church the only path to salvation?

For some, it has been and it will be. At some point as we near the end, the choice will have to be made by every man, woman and even child, to follow God or follow man. To come out of Babylon or perish. Our pioneers had to make tough choices in this regard. They had to come out of the Churches they were members of and acknowledge the call to new light and a new path. Leaving family, jobs, houses behind if necessary. Those Millerites who became, in time, the visible organized Seventh-day Adventist Church.

Others, William Miller comes to mind, will certainly find their way to the Kingdom. But to save Father Miller, Jesus had to lay him in his grave. Whatever the cost, heaven is cheap enough!

[Guest]

Maybe I'll name my next dog Mr. Miller... :)

[Gibs]

None are saved by a church structure! Is the SDA church the only way to get to Heaven? No, by no means. Jesus Christ only is the WAY and the only WAY!

I find the issue of trinity of Gods and One and Only one God believers is if the person really knows who His Redeemer is.

It cannot be denied that scripture is adamant there is but one God, so,

Our Redeemer has to be that one God in Jesus Christ! Who is He? Well,

He told Philip for one, you've seen me you have seen the Father!

Here is a couple verses that answer it well too and there is more,

Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[ClubV12]

None will be saved by their membership in the Seventh-day Adventist Church, but many will be lost who have removed their membership from the Church.

The wise will understand what this means.

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

Truth is progressive. Better late than never.

About half the church now believes in some form of evolution, as to how we got here. Is that also progressing truth?

Refusal to acknowledge the fact of MICRO-evolution illustrates very well what happened to the Reformation and why it was necessary for God to raise another movement.

Quote:

The overwhelming majority now believe that you will be saved IN your sins, instead of from them. Is this too, merely truth that is progressing?

I doubt you'll find one person in my church who believes he/she can be saved while clinging to his/her sins.

[phkrause]

It was decreed in the councils of God that the only-begotten Son of God must leave His high command in heaven, and clothe His divinity with humanity, and come to the world. {4BC 1153.5}

Three times He was shut in by the glorious light about the Father, and the third time He came from the Father we could see His person. His countenance was calm, free from all perplexity and trouble, and shone with a loveliness which words cannot describe. He then made known to the angelic choir that a way of escape had been made for lost man; that He had been pleading with His Father, and had obtained permission to give His own life as a ransom for the race, to bear their sins, and take the sentence of death upon Himself, thus opening a way whereby they might, through the merits of His blood, find pardon for past transgressions, and by obedience be brought back to the garden from which they were driven. Then they could again have access to the glorious, immortal fruit of the tree of life to which they had now forfeited all right.

Then joy, inexpressible joy, filled heaven, and the heavenly choir sang a song of praise and adoration. They touched their harps and sang a note higher than they had done before, because of the great mercy and condescension of God in yielding up His dearly Beloved to die for a race of rebels. Then praise and adoration was poured forth for the self-denial and sacrifice of Jesus, in consenting to leave the bosom of His Father, and choosing a life of suffering and anguish, and an ignominious death, that He might give life to others.

Said the angel, "Think ye that the Father yielded up His dearly beloved Son without a struggle? No, no." It was even a struggle with the God of heaven, whether to let guilty man perish, or to give His darling Son to die for them. {EW 126, 127}

So you see Gibs, Jesus was already the only begotten, darling Son. Before the plan of salvation was even agreed on.

[Guest]

About half the church now believes in some form of evolution, as to how we got here. Is that also progressing truth?

[Naomi]

Quote:

Originally Posted By: RLH

The overwhelming majority now believe that you will be saved IN your sins, instead of from them. Is this too, merely truth that is progressing?

do find it interestng that more and more do believe that we will be saved IN our sins. They love to quote, "In the twinkling of the eye we will be changed"

[Guest]

Yes, I've heard that Naomi, you're right. When it's talking about the physical body, not the character. Full context is everything. )

[Gibs]

Originally Posted By: RLH

It was decreed in the councils of God that the only-begotten Son of God must leave His high command in heaven, and clothe His divinity with humanity, and come to the world. {4BC 1153.5}

Three times He was shut in by the glorious light about the Father, and the third time He came from the Father we could see His person. His countenance was calm, free from all perplexity and trouble, and shone with a loveliness which words cannot describe. He then made known to the angelic choir that a way of escape had been made for lost man; that He had been pleading with His Father, and had obtained permission to give His own life as a ransom for the race, to bear their sins, and take the sentence of death upon Himself, thus opening a way whereby they might, through the merits of His blood, find pardon for past transgressions, and by obedience be brought back to the garden from which they were driven. Then they could again have access to the glorious, immortal fruit of the tree of life to which they had now forfeited all right.

Then joy, inexpressible joy, filled heaven, and the heavenly choir sang a song of praise and adoration. They touched their harps and sang a note higher than they had done before, because of the great mercy and condescension of God in yielding up His dearly Beloved to die for a race of rebels. Then praise and adoration was poured forth for the self-denial and sacrifice of Jesus, in consenting to leave the bosom of His Father, and choosing a life of suffering and anguish, and an ignominious death, that He might give life to others.

Said the angel, "Think ye that the Father yielded up His dearly beloved Son without a struggle? No, no." It was even a struggle with the God of heaven, whether to let guilty man perish, or to give His darling Son to die for them. {EW 126, 127}

So you see Gibs, Jesus was already the only begotten, darling Son. Before the plan of salvation was even agreed on.

It don't matter what anyone one says, scripture proves there was no ONLY begotten Son before Bethlehem.

I must stand on the scriptures for any teaching regardless of whose pathe it crosses.

Get in the head, ONLY, means no other. Yaweh came in Him at Bethlehem, yes our Redeemer is what the Father gave of Himself to come and be in that One and ONLY begotten Son of man and God Himself. That Son was Marys babe and she was to call him Jesus.

He was actually Yahweh-Messiah and was also to be called Emmanuel, that is God with us! Yes the Father with us.

You may believe as you like, but do be honest with yourself and believe the Word of God.

But mainly know this your Redeemer is our Father in Jesus Christ!

The one and only way that Jesus could state in truth I am the first, don't you see then, it has to be the Father that is in Him.

The cinch of this is 1 Cor 15:24-28, very profound read of those 5 verses!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gibs]

Yes it has been common for ages to have men call the Redeemer before Bethlehem the Son of God.

But the fact is there was no ONLY BEGOTTEN SON Before bethlehem!

The Father had possessed of Himself His Redeemer in the beginning but was not a son. The Redeemer was the equal part of Himself, one substance!

This is who the council was between. God is a Spirit and this is not impossible with God but of course we are not able to send forth of ourselves an equal.

But will you limit God? He proceeded forth from the Father and sent to do the visible creation and all the Hosts. Then at Bethlehem Heaven was emptied of Him and incorporated in Marys Babe, the ONE AND ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD!

It is no hard mystery.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gordon1]

Truth is progressive.

But returning to the central Roman Catholic doctrine is not progressive.

If it is, we should smarten up and progress to Sunday-keeping too.

"And all the world said Better late than never."

[Gibs]

Truth is an absolute and always will be. His Word is Truth and never changes.

Jas 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[ClubV12]

I could care less what the Catholics (or the Bapists, evolutionists, my neighbor, the mail man or Jehovah Witness) believe or don't believe.

I KNOW what I believe and I'm secure enough in that I don't have to double check everything with the Catholics.

[whatisthis]

Salvation via "There is no other name under heaven given among men" and the name is Jesus.

[whatisthis]

Php_2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

Act_19:17 And this was known to all the Jews and Greeks also dwelling at Ephesus; and fear fell on them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified.

Act_21:13 Then Paul answered, What mean ye to weep and to break mine heart? for I am ready not to be bound only, but also to die at Jerusalem for the name of the Lord Jesus.

Isa_26:13 O LORD our God, other lords beside thee have had dominion over us: but by thee only will we make mention of thy name.

[whatisthis]

Act_4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

[ClubV12]

Jesus put it this way, "Salvation is of the Jews". The Church He was a member of, the one He preached in, the one He read to the people from the scrolls. A member in good standing.

In Pauls time, He would have been a member of the Apostalic Church. In the reformation, the Protestant Church, and through those Churches salvation could be found, because there, you find Him. Today He would be a member, in good standing as always, with the Seventh-day Adventist Church. Thats where you will find Him. Preaching the very last message to mankind, the three angels message of Revelation.

[whatisthis]

Give me some of those verses on which you base this concept, and I'll give you that even the Father in heaven above has put thing into the hand of Jesus.

Joh_3:35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

[whatisthis]

I am absolutely sure Jesus has a use for the Church, his sweet bride, but salvation comes through the merits of a crucified and risen Saviour!

[whatisthis]

The reason Salvation is of the church is that the church proclaims the doctrine of Jesus death and resurrection for our sin.

[epaminondas]

Quote:

Can believers in the Trinity be saved as readily as

believers in the Godhead?

If so, then it's not a salvational issue.

Doesn't the first commandment say something about having only one God? A trinity of gods is three gods. Or is it three, one third gods adding up to only one in the end?

If you read through the Bible, especially the prophets, you'll find that having other gods is the one thing that really upsets God.

Quote:

ACV: Exodus 34:14. for thou shall worship no other god. For Jehovah, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.

Another name for God. What do you make of it, John317? Is this also evidence of the trinity?

In light of what the Bible says, creating a trinity and worshiping three gods (I've heard people pray to Jesus, but never to the Holy Spirit. Are they lax in their worship?) does not seem all that safe to me.