Lessons on Faith by Jones and Waggoner- Reading club only

[Gail]

P 22:

Many people pray but do not know whether it is the will of the Lord that they should have what they pray for and so do not know whether they can certainly claim it; and not knowing whether they can claim it, they are all at sea as to whether their prayers are answered or not.

The Lord does not want anybody to move uncertainly. Therefore, He has given His word, which thoroughly furnishes every one unto all good works and by which are given all things that pertain unto life and godliness.

And anyone who seeks in the word of God the things which God has there provided for all and upon that specific word prays for that thing, thus asking according to the plainly expressed will of God, knows that his prayer is heard and that he has the thing for which he prayed.

[joeb]

I really like the following. Partly because back in the days of being burned out on drugs and lost in life I used to walk around at night and look at the stars remembering how God took Abraham out of tent and told him to look at the stars. During those walks I would talk to "the God Abraham" and tell Him all about my issues.

It was after I started doing that that my life turned around.

Quote:

So Abraham's faith was the same that ours must be, and in the same object. The fact that it is by faith in the death and resurrection of Christ that we have the same righteousness

imputed to us that was imputed to Abraham, shows that braham's faith was likewise in the death and resurrection of Christ. All the promises of God to Abraham were for us as

well as for him. Indeed, we are told in one place that they were specially for our benefit. "When God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself." "Wherein God, willing more abundantly to show unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath: that by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us." Heb. 6:13, 17, 18. Our hope,

therefore, rests upon God's promise and oath to Abraham, for that promise to Abraham, confirmed by that oath, contains all the blessings which God can possibly give to man.

[joeb]

What I'm quoting below is the paragraph following the one I quoted in my last post. I find it to be very good, very helpful, in understanding the purpose and beauty of the Gospel, and how faith works in our life.

Quote:

But let us make this matter a little more personal before leaving it. Trembling soul, say not that your sins are so many and that you are so weak that there is no hope for you. Christ came to save the lost, and He is able to save to the uttermost those that come to God by Him. You are weak, but He says, "My strength is made perfect in weakness." 2 Cor. 12:9. And the inspired record tells us of those who "out of weakness were made strong." Heb. 11:34. That means that God took their very weakness and turned it into strength. In so doing He demonstrates His power. It is His way of working. For "God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty, and base things of the world, and things which are despised hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to naught things that are; that no flesh should glory in his presence." 1 Cor. 1:27-29.

[seeker]

Eph 4:7 Eph 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. “The measure of the gift of Christ is “all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.” This is true whether viewed as the measure of the gift of God made in giving Christ or as the measure of the gift which Christ gave Himself. For the gift that God gave is his only begotten Son, and in “him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.””

I have always heard that we are given grace and that it is freely given. However no pastor has ever so clearly explained just what that grace is. I really like what Jones has to say starting on page 52 on the subject of Grace.

I have had this little book for years and have given many away most to non-Adventist I was surprised to find how many of those people loved this book and they saw written therein deep Godly men who loved the Word of God.

[joeb]

Eph 4:7 Eph 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. “The measure of the gift of Christ is “all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.” This is true whether viewed as the measure of the gift of God made in giving Christ or as the measure of the gift which Christ gave Himself. For the gift that God gave is his only begotten Son, and in “him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.””

I have always heard that we are given grace and that it is freely given. However no pastor has ever so clearly explained just what that grace is. I really like what Jones has to say starting on page 52 on the subject of Grace.

I have had this little book for years and have given many away most to non-Adventist I was surprised to find how many of those people loved this book and they saw written therein deep Godly men who loved the Word of God.

I like that too. Excellent contribution. Welcome to CA, as I see this was post #1.

[joeb]

I really like this quote from page 44 of Lessons on Faith. It shows the true relationship between three things: faith, disobedience to the law, and obedience to the law.

Quote:

Read the words of Paul in Rom. 3:31. "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid; yea, we establish the law." Making void the law of God by man is not abolishing it; for that is an impossibility. It is as fixed as the throne of God. No matter what men say of the law, nor how much they trample upon it and despise it, it remains the same. The only way that men can make void the law of God is to make it of none effect in their hearts by their disobedience. Thus in Num. 30:15, a vow that has been broken is said to have been made void. So when the apostle says that we do not make void the law through faith, he means that faith and disobedience are incompatible. No matter how much the law-breaker professes faith, the fact that he is a law-breaker shows that he has no faith. But the possession of faith is shown by the establishment of the law in the heart, so that the man does not sin against God. Let no one decry faith as of little moment.

[Gail]

Yes, welcome, Seeker! Glad to see your input

I just finished another smaller book by Andrew Murray called, Living to Please God. It fits right into what I've reading here, that of complete surrender and how to grow your faith. It was great to have the reinforcement.

And I loved the part about Abraham.

One point that struck me in the beginning was where it was quoted that if you are not living by faith you are not pleasing God, for without faith it is impossible to please him. I think that God has big things in store for Hs people but only few are taking advantage of the opportunity.

[Gail]

Excellent, Joeb!

[Gail]

How does knowing what we are reading change your prayers?

[Gail]

Quote:

Do you not see that righteousness by faith is just as plain and simple as the asking God for forgiveness of sin? Indeed, it is just that.

Does that sound like a struggle to you? P 25

[joeb]

How does knowing what we are reading change your prayers?

Right now, I'd say that it won't change my prayers a whole lot. I've been coming to this understanding for quite a while, and I have put forth effort to make sure my prayers are in line with God's expressed will in His word.

I can say it has changed me. I haven't changed me, but God has. Faith in the word of God, faith in God, changes us.

[Gail]

I can say it has changed me. I haven't changed me, but God has. Faith in the word of God, faith in God, changes us.

Praise God!

[seeker]

Thank you for the welcome; my wife and I moved from GA 7 years ago to ND and it was truly by faith that we moved. We saw a house listed in ND 5 pictures is all we saw. We prayed and left it in Gods' hands. We bought the house then moved 6 months later with my family and my sister and her kids came with us. We had no jobs lined up and not much money either. The trip took 3 days and we had no issues except a flat on the trailer. We left it all to God to deal with, getting us there, getting us jobs everything. Within 1 week we all had jobs, within 2 weeks a man came over and offered to sell his house to my sister and her kids. A verbal contract only and she owns the house now. If we had tried to do this on our own we would have failed, if we tried to help we would have failed.

I say this because I believe that it is faith and faith alone that well get us through the time of trouble and all the issues that we face today. if we have faith in God and His dear Son and leave it in their hands all will be well. God will see us through.

[Gail]

Quote:

And this is all as true today as ever. Today, whether persons are out of Christ or in Christ, neither works nor no works avail anything. For it is written: "Are you in Christ? Not if you do not acknowledge yourselves erring, helpless, condemned sinners. . . . Your birth, your reputation, your wealth, your talents, your virtues, your piety, your philanthropy, or anything else in you or connected with you, will not form a bond of union between your soul and Christ." --Testimony for the Church, No. 31, pages 44, 45.

Even your obedience?

[seeker]

Thank you for the welcome:)

[joeb]

Quote:

And this is all as true today as ever. Today, whether persons are out of Christ or in Christ, neither works nor no works avail anything. For it is written: "Are you in Christ? Not if you do not acknowledge yourselves erring, helpless, condemned sinners. . . . Your birth, your reputation, your wealth, your talents, your virtues, your piety, your philanthropy, or anything else in you or connected with you, will not form a bond of union between your soul and Christ." --Testimony for the Church, No. 31, pages 44, 45.

Even your obedience?

[joeb]

Thank you for the welcome:)

You're welcome. Glad to have your input. Stick around and post some more.

[seeker]

I try to image an endless, boundless, immeasurable grace but I ask myself what is Grace? Using the word Grace from Eph 4:7 the word means “graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act (abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life;” This Grace can also be understood to be how influence upon our hearts by God. We accept this Grace from God into our lives, and it does its work upon us and in turn we are to live it. This in turns is another way that we live by faith for as Grace Works upon our hearts we are changed.

I see faith and Grace as working hand in hand.

David

[Gail]

Thank you for the welcome; my wife and I moved from GA 7 years ago to ND and it was truly by faith that we moved. We saw a house listed in ND 5 pictures is all we saw. We prayed and left it in Gods' hands. We bought the house then moved 6 months later with my family and my sister and her kids came with us. We had no jobs lined up and not much money either. The trip took 3 days and we had no issues except a flat on the trailer. We left it all to God to deal with, getting us there, getting us jobs everything. Within 1 week we all had jobs, within 2 weeks a man came over and offered to sell his house to my sister and her kids. A verbal contract only and she owns the house now. If we had tried to do this on our own we would have failed, if we tried to help we would have failed.

I say this because I believe that it is faith and faith alone that well get us through the time of trouble and all the issues that we face today. if we have faith in God and His dear Son and leave it in their hands all will be well. God will see us through.

I love to hear stories like this! Thank you for being here!

[Gail]

Yes! The divine influence on the heart! That is wonderful news! It should be real, not just something that someone says.

[Gail]

Wow! There's good stuff on every page!

Quote:

Think of the lust of the flesh. How all-pervading it is! How stern are its dictates! How oppressive its rule! How dismal is the slavery that it lays upon man!

Everybody has experienced it--longing to do the good that he would, yet doing only the evil that he hated; having ever a will to do better, but how to perform it, finding not; delighting in the law of God after the inward man, yet finding in his members another law, warring against the law of his mind and bringing him into captivity to the law of sin which is in his members; and at last, crying out, "O wretched man that I am! Who shall deliver me from the body of this death?" Rom. 7:14-24.

[Gail]

What I like about this book is that it tells about the power of God in the life. How much more value is that to us that getting mired in discussions ABOUT the Bible? How practical!

[Ted Oplinger]

It is quite easy for many to believe they are ungodly, and to even acknowledge it; but for them to believe that God justifies them - that is too much.

And the sole reason why they cannot believe that God justifies them, is that they are ungodly, so ungodly.

If only they could find some good in themselves, or if only they could straighten up and do better, they might have some courage to hope that God could justify them. Yes, they would justify themselves by works, and then profess to believe in justification by faith!

.....

For faith is the dependence upon the word of God only. So long as there is any dependence on himself, so long as there is any conceivable ground of hope for any dependence upon anything in or about himself, there can be no faith: there is no place for faith, since faith is dependence on "the word only".

But when every conceivable ground of hope of any dependence on anything in or about himself, is gone, and is acknowledged to be gone; when everything that can be seen is against the hope of justification, then it is that, throwing himself on the promises of God, upon the word only, hoping against hope, faith enters: and by faith he finds justification full and free, all ungodly though he may be.

It's not just an Old Testament thing, either. So many Christians professing faith in Christ have this same approach to justification and righteousness - including many Adventists. Faith enters in only when everything else is gone. The story of God promising, and then delivering on that promise, of Isaac to Abraham and Sarah, is so illustrative example of what faith is with respect to the promises of God is.

Blessings,

[Gail]

Well said, Iron Deacon

[joeb]

I try to image an endless, boundless, immeasurable grace but I ask myself what is Grace? Using the word Grace from Eph 4:7 the word means “graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act (abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life;” This Grace can also be understood to be how influence upon our hearts by God. We accept this Grace from God into our lives, and it does its work upon us and in turn we are to live it. This in turns is another way that we live by faith for as Grace Works upon our hearts we are changed.

I see faith and Grace as working hand in hand.

David

What is the divine influence upon the human heart? Nothing other than the Holy Spirit doing the job Christ has given it.