On-going Debate

[ClubV12]

Myself, I never cared much for delving into conspiracy theories, to many "off the wall" and "outrageous" claims are made.

Now about that guy on the grassy knoll,,, I don't care.

In fact, I much prefer to study "truth" over a mixture of truth and error or mans speculation. I do understand the draw for those who enjoy conspiracy theories, I'm not convinced it's healthy. In the same way reading fiction novels, which I don't believe are healthy. Even though Tom Clancy does an artful job of mixing speculation with truth in such a way as to draw one in, I'll pass.

And yeah, the internet, a blessing and a curse, much caution is certainly advised.

[Bird's Eye View]

I do like looking into them, but not ALL of them! Aliens and UFOs don't interest me, but I find most real history falls under the broad heading of Conspiracy. We wouldn't be where we are today if people weren't conspiring with hidden motives!

Having once imagined myself with a degree in Criminal Justice, (before circumstances dictated otherwise), I have always had a morbid curiosity about the criminal mind and how it plays out. For that, one need look no further than the highest offices, be in government, religion, or otherwise.

Anyway, yes, it calls for some heavy discernment, but I think "Ye, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death..."

-you know the rest!

[Bird's Eye View]

Think about it...the two things in life that control us the most, Politics and Religion, we are told it is "impolite" to discuss.

There's a "conspiracy" in itself!...to keep people talking sports, hobbies, the weather, the kids, the jobs,...anything BUT those two forbidden subjects!

All the better to keep us from looking behind the curtain.

[ClubV12]

Whatever it takes jackson, heaven is cheap enough! Sell everything if need be, do what you have to do. Let nothing get in your way. THIS life is but for a moment, the next is for eternity. Get ready, get ready.

[Gibs]

Quoting the Bible is a fine source for relating your faith, Gibs, but to people who are looking at the Bible's claims more skeptically, it comes across as "The Bible is true because the words in this Bible say so!" (?)

Either the Bible is true, or it's the greatest NLP con job there ever was!

(neuro-linguistic programming)

Seriously, the Bible even says how "the righteous will live by faith". There are two ways you can look at that. The unquestioning belief in what the Bible tells us about God is true, or, you could see an ulterior motive as if to say "don't question or over-analyze what is put forth in this book!"

I don't say that just to be contrary,...just presenting a couple different ways of looking at things here, from an objective point of view, from someone who has more questions than answers!

This is the ONE book, the Bible, you do not need or want to question.

Now the why, I find it is questioning God and that He didn't care enough or was greater than the evil in this world to keep it as He wanted for us to learn of Him and His Way.

It is the Holy Bible because it is God breathed to His Servants the Prophets. No books of men have any merit for us to follow.

Only God alone can make any thing Holy and the seventh day that He tells us is My Holy day is another example.

He set it apart and not men, to men one day is the same as another not counting storms and rainy days when he wants to play or something. Then man has a bad day.

When we pick up that Holy Bible Book, shall we not do it with high Reverence for it's Author?

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Ron Amnsn]

I say if the New Testament was so clear on keeping the Sabbath issue, it would be stated clearly here, but it is conspicuously absent.

[Ron Amnsn]

This addresses both of John 14:15 and a little bit of Rudy's comment as well.

Jesus says :

If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Matthew 22:36-40 "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?" And He said to him, "'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.' "This is the great and foremost commandment. "The second is like it, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' "On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets."

Just speaking from an objective point of view, these two commandments are usually how Christians tend to understand "the law".

[Ron Amnsn]

Those who go back and read Exodus are likely to come away with thinking the Sabbath is not meant for Gentiles, based on this:

"‘So the sons of Israel shall observe the sabbath, to celebrate the sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant.’

and this in Deuteronomy: 5:15, “And remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD your God brought you out from there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the LORD your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day.”

So when they read this

“Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah; not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt;

They believe this New Covenant does away with the laws given to Moses.

B.E.V.,

Jesus said that the Sabbath was made for man. If Jesus was speaking in Hebrew, which he probably was, then the word for "man" (meaning mankind) that Jesus used was "Adam", the name of your first forefather. Jesus said that the Sabbath was a gift given to the first human. We have all inherited that gift from our forefathers.

There are quite a few misconceptions among Christians regarding their relationship with the literal nation of Israel. Many people erroneously believe that "the church" has replaced the Israelites as God's chosen people. That contradicts what Scripture says. There is nothing in Scripture that says anything about a "church" that is separate from the literal descendents of Israel (Jacob).

From the beginning, God's covenants have always included those Gentiles who joined themselves with Abraham, Jacob, and the Israelites.

The "new covenant" of Jeremiah 31:31 and Hebrews 8:8 is made with "the house of Israel and the house of Judah". There is no covenant made with Christians who have separated themselves from the Israelites. When we become servants/slaves of Jesus (who is a literal descendant of Abraham and Jacob) we become a part of his Israelite household.

[Ron Amnsn]

This writer sums it up pretty nicely, in my opinion, as to how Christians view the scriptures.

It's not that they want to be "disobedient" or "bow to Rome" or any nonsense like that. They just believe in Jesus being their rest, per the New Covenant!

[phkrause]

[Ron Amnsn]

I probably couldn't answer even half the question you guys could toss my way, but I wonder if anyone would mind helping me see how you define and differentiate between these two scriptures that I mentioned earlier...

1) Deuteronomy: 5:15, “And remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD your God brought you out from there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the LORD your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day.”

[Ron Amnsn]

One more point about the new covenant:

Within the promise of the "new covenant" in Jeremiah 31:31-34 it specifically says,"I will forgive their sins". It doesn't say that God will change the definition of "sin" by making unspecified changes to the Law, somehow causing what was formerly sinful to be no longer regarded as sinful.

The Law will remain. It is the sins that will be forgiven. We can expect that the sins will be defined in the same way that they were defined when the promise was originally given to Jeremiah.

[Bird's Eye View]

Hi Ron, I see you've written quite a bit since I last checked in here at the forum.

Whether I have any more comments to make or not, just wanted you to know I will read over what you had to say. Thanks for taking the time to post.