Principal Bans Hispanic Students from Speaking Spanish

[bonnie]

Principal Bans Hispanic Students from Speaking Spanish

So much for the principal being your pal: A Texas middle school principal informed Hispanic students in her school that they would no longer be allowed to speak Spanish while in class.

Principal Amy Lacey of Hempstead Middle School in Hempstead made the announcement over the intercom last month.

It didn't stick: With over 50 percent of students enrolled at the school being Hispanic, it didn't take long for the school district to issue a letter clarifying that there was no official policy "prohibiting the speaking of Spanish."

Principal Lacey has since been placed on paid administrative leave pending the results of a district investigation.

Despite the district's efforts to assuage parents, it seems some damage has already been done.

"People don’t want to speak [spanish] no more, and they don’t want to get caught speaking it because they’re going to get in trouble," sixth-grader Kiara Lozano told KHOU.

Other students said several teachers have since issued their own ban on Spanish, telling students they will be written up or kicked out of class if they are caught speaking it.

Many in Hempstead also side with the principal on the issue of forced assimilation.

"I would defend her because she's right," resident Ruth Zboril told the CBS affiliate. "How else are they going to assimilate?"

[ClubV12]

I tend to agree with the Principal on this, speak english in school.

In Hawaii many families, people, speak two or more languages. One at home, another in public. Because of the large variety of languages this is what led to pidgin english.

Reality is that this "corrupt language" is difficult for even locals to understand, because it has so many variables. I worked with a Filipino friend for twenty years and ALWAYS had a difficult time understanding him. As did my colleagues, it stalled his career, simply because he was so difficult to communicate with. Technical specs or blueprint discussions were very probelmatic.

Pidgin language is very common through out the islands, it definitely has an impact on the locals advancing out of poverty and climbing into the "middle class".

Even talking about this problem generates a lot of hard feelings. Locals are proud on their special language, they don't want to be "forced" to speak english. Well OK then, good luck with all that. Deny reality, bury your head in the sand, stay poor...

[bonnie]

My granddaughter went to school in Spain for a year.No english.She was expected to assimilate. She knew very little spanish when she arrived there. She can now speak spanish quite well

[cricket]

I disagree. I don't believe people should be punished for speaking their own, native language. I can understand requiring the students to answer questions and do their homework in English, but I can not understand doling out punishment to them when speaking in their own native language.

[Green Cochoa]

As a language teacher, I'm opposed to force like that. There are several good reasons to avoid such strict measures.

1) No one enjoys being forced. This tends to sap the fun out of learning and often has an opposite effect to that which was desired.

2) The mind is like a muscle. After working hard it needs a rest.

3) Bilingual people are valuable. Every language is a valuable asset, and should not be repressed.

4) It is often easiest to explain a new word or concept by directly relating it to something in one's mother tongue. There's no good reason to cut off this channel of learning, whether the explanation comes from the teacher or another student.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

[bonnie]

I disagree. I don't believe people should be punished for speaking their own, native language. I can understand requiring the students to answer questions and do their homework in English, but I can not understand doling out punishment to them when speaking in their own native language.

This only deals with speaking spanish in class. Not forbidding them to ever speak spanish.

Might get a little difficult for a teacher to ask questions in english and have half the class answer in spanish

[ClubV12]

Well I suppose it's OK because Texas has a lot of Spanish speaking folks. Following that logic, we should allow Croations, Chinese, Filipino's, Germans to speak their native tongues as well in parts of the country where they represent a significant number of people.

Like Hawaii... where the number of foreign languages is likely the highest in any State. AND we should provide teachers that speak those languages, so the poor students don't have to struggle to hard to "assimilate". Or is that just a fancy word for "get a job"?

How about the local language in the Ghettos of New York? No problem? Actually, serious problem, proper english language skills are reality if you expect to gain any traction toward lifting yourself out of poverty. But of course, we can't talk about the Ghettos, for fear of being politically incorrect or even racist, so we sweep it under the rug. Just like they do in Hawaii, it's just something you don't talk about.

[Green Cochoa]

Club,

How many countries have you visited and how many languages have you studied and/or learned?

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

[ClubV12]

Green, I am reminded that higher education does not always result in better analysis. I see that as it regards "intellectuals" telling us poor uneducated types what the bible really says. Not in all cases of course, but many.

I suspect your language skills have impacted in a negative way your ability to deal with the reality of people who could climb out of poverty, but their language skills are holding them back.

This is a problem across the country that impacts a LOT of various cultures. I'm surprised you don't seem to understand that. But maybe I'm mistaken and you do understand it. If so, there seems to be something wrong with your analysis.

How many years did you live in a multilingual society and observe how the lack of language skills held back the "locals" from even getting a simple job, like at McD's? Let alone advancing in a high tech field like I was working in.

It's not surprising the bulk of high tech workers in Hawaii are NOT local.

[Green Cochoa]

Club,

I note that you have not mentioned your acquaintance with other languages. I find that this is generally the most common cause of prejudice against "foreign" languages. That very word "foreign" somehow seems to denigrate those strange tongues.

Those who grow up in Europe frequently speak multiple languages. There's an old joke that you may have heard that goes something like this: "What do you call a person who speaks multiple languages? A: Polyglot. What do you call a person who speaks two languages? A: Bilingual. What do you call a person who speaks one language? A: ...an American!"

Unfortunately, many Americans live up to that standard. I'm a polyglot who teaches those so-called "foreign" languages. I have not seen the language problems that you appear so focused upon. I have seen the opposite.

Here's one thing I've seen: Hispanics come into America from such poverty-stricken backgrounds that they were unable to receive an education in their home countries for sheer necessity of working for their family's living--then, with the little, low-paying work that they manage to find in America, upgrade their standard of living significantly, and are even able to send money back to family in the homeland. Do we view their jobs as low-class? Perhaps. Is it because of their inability to speak English? I don't know. What I do know, is that when they learn English, Americans get upset because they displace the monoglots in the workforce, seeing as Spanish is an important second-language skill to have in America today.

So, it seems they cannot win: either people berate them for speaking little English, or they despise them for taking over the jobs of others who cannot speak Spanish.

Of course, you know what the hispanics like to say....

"¡Español es la lengua de los cielos!"

You might want to start learning it now!

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

[ClubV12]

Green I note that you have not mentioned actually living in an area that is multilingal and seeing first hand the impact that has.

I have and I believe that makes me well qualified to speak on the subject. ...

It does not denigrate a foreign language as just that, foreign to the country or area in which it is spoken. I lived in D.C. for almost a decade, I lost a job there because I was white. Didn't make me bitter or racist, just recognizing reality. I lived in Hawaii for over two decades, where I was routinely considered a minority, a haole.

I've learned to accept people for what they are, I am truly color blind. But I have witnessed what you seem to deny, both in D.C. and Hawaii. Language skills are a barrier to those trying to escape poverty.

I've also seen the impact in third world countries as an international contractor. We often hired locals for various projects. Who do you think got the first shot at getting a good, well paying job? The man or woman who could at least speak some english, regardless of what other skills they may have had.

Letting kids in school use their native tongue in class isn't helping them to get ahead.

[Green Cochoa]

Club,

I've taught in bilingual school programs. Trust me, the students who don't know English when they finish high school are not in that condition for having spoken Spanish in the classroom. They are in that condition for having only recently entered America and not having had the opportunity to study as long as some of their peers.

Most Hispanics who speak only Spanish are those which are beyond school age when they come.

Have I lived in multilingual areas? I certainly have. I assumed that would have been adequately expressed in my prior posts.

I do believe that your experience in Hawaii with the Pidgin English cannot be compared on the same level with other languages. Spanish, you know, is not a mongrel language; an impure mix of two or more other languages. Spanish is a pure language which just happens to rank in the top five languages in use worldwide. There may well be more native speakers of Spanish than there are native speakers of English. However, because so many learn English as a second or third language, the overall number of English speakers exceeds that of Spanish speakers.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

[bonnie]

How many different languages should teachers in America be required to master so that those immigrating here do not have to learn english?

If I immigrate to another country,what right to I have to insist the schools bend to my particular language?

[ClubV12]

The impact of speaking English, and speaking it well, seems to be lost on you Green. Most foreign tongues are not mongrel languages either. That doesn't stop anybody from using such a mixture of languages in their speech it would just be easier to hire the guy you CAN understand.

Two Fillipinos in Hawaii I worked with. One who REFUSED to leave his pidgion at home and he never advanced. The other, same skills, who made a determined effort to speak english well, he became a supervisor.

What you seem to be saying here is that Spanish speaking people are different and therefore get a break. Not so, the language problem and proper use of English is across the board for anybody who comes to America speaking a language. Or growing up with a different language at home and having to "deal with" English at school, or work or life.

My son took many years of German, he could read it well enough. When he went to Germany for an extended stay he was shocked at how the street language, the everyday speak, was much different than what he learned in school.

Nobody should get a break in school when it comes to language. Not the African American from the ghetto, not the German fellow, not the Spanish folks, nobody. It will only hurt them in the long run.

Voice of experience.

[Green Cochoa]

Voice of experience.

I haven't yet gathered that you have any experience with learning another language. Which language, other than English, have you learned?

Again, those who seem the most dogmatic about wanting others to speak "only English" are generally those who have no ability to use another language themselves.

I recall an occasion when I was eating in a cafeteria (at an "overseas" school), joined at the table by friends from other countries. One couple spoke English, but could not speak the local language. Others spoke the local language, but did not understand English. I politely conversed, in turn, with each of these--in their respective languages. Those of the local language were never offended that I spoke English which they did not understand. But those who spoke English were offended when I spoke the local language, thinking that I must be talking about them behind their backs!

Of course, such thinking is the epitome of selfishness. I was friends with everyone at the table, and was not talking behind anyone's back! But I learned a month or so later that these English-speaking friends of mine had been deeply offended that I had spoken the local language instead of English in their presence.

Many Americans fear Spanish-speaking in the same fashion. This is nothing but selfishness and prejudice.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

[bonnie]

Originally Posted By: ClubV12

Voice of experience.

I haven't yet gathered that you have any experience with learning another language. Which language, other than English, have you learned?

Again, those who seem the most dogmatic about wanting others to speak "only English" are generally those who have no ability to use another language themselves.

I recall an occasion when I was eating in a cafeteria (at an "overseas" school), joined at the table by friends from other countries. One couple spoke English, but could not speak the local language. Others spoke the local language, but did not understand English. I politely conversed, in turn, with each of these--in their respective languages. Those of the local language were never offended that I spoke English which they did not understand. But those who spoke English were offended when I spoke the local language, thinking that I must be talking about them behind their backs!

Of course, such thinking is the epitome of selfishness. I was friends with everyone at the table, and was not talking behind anyone's back! But I learned a month or so later that these English-speaking friends of mine had been deeply offended that I had spoken the local language instead of English in their presence.

Many Americans fear Spanish-speaking in the same fashion. This is nothing but selfishness and prejudice.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

This doesn't have anything to do with fear and prejudice. I don't speak spanish and don't have any interest in learning another language.However if I immigrate to Mexico I do not expect those I would come in contact with to learn english just to make me happy

[ClubV12]

It's SCHOOL, where you gain an education to further yourself in life. If you find yourself in a country where you don't speak the local language well, don't expect to get a decent job.

This is not a difficult concept Green, did you flunk that "common sense" degree?

Many minority leaders are recognizing this fundamental problem. Notably African Americans who actually DO speak english, but to often it could be categorized as yet another version of "pidgin". It is well recognized, but not politically correct to speak of, that this is a serious problem within that community. Certainly it is well recognized in Hawaii as many of the locals come to the mainland for jobs and return because of language barriers. Certainly it is a problem for those who grew up speaking Spanish and then leave Texas or California for better opportunities.

To deny this fundamental reality is madness. Is it racist to acknowledge it? Is it not politically correct? Do we run the risk of alienating the locals in Hawaii, or Texas or Calfornia if we don't bend to their preferred language choice? Yes, to all above, as many will see it.

You know, it's like "a Christian loving someone to death" because they are afraid to tell people what they must do to be saved. Afraid they might hurt their feelings, or be rejected, or perhaps even persecuted. So they keep quiet, sweep it under the rug.

They let the "learned men" among them, those with degrees in language, whisper smooth sayings and tickle the ears of those who speak Spanish telling them, "Everything is going to be alright. No worries."

Thats what your doing Green, your telling them, "Don't worry about it". I tell you this, I wouldn't hire them for anything more than digging a ditch if they have poor english skills. Am I racist? Nope, I'm a contractor who WILL bring the job in on time and under budget. Because I don't have "tenure", I could care less about the "politics", I have a job to do. I live in the real world, not some intellectual utopia.

[Green Cochoa]

It's SCHOOL, where you gain an education to further yourself in life. If you find yourself in a country where you don't speak the local language well, don't expect to get a decent job.

This is not a difficult concept Green, did you flunk that "common sense" degree?

Many minority leaders are recognizing this fundamental problem. Notably African Americans who actually DO speak english, but to often it could be categorized as yet another version of "pidgin". It is well recognized, but not politically correct to speak of, that this is a serious problem within that community. Certainly it is well recognized in Hawaii as many of the locals come to the mainland for jobs and return because of language barriers. Certainly it is a problem for those who grew up speaking Spanish and then leave Texas or California for better opportunities.

To deny this fundamental reality is madness. Is it racist to acknowledge it? Is it not politically correct? Do we run the risk of alienating the locals in Hawaii, or Texas or Calfornia if we don't bend to their preferred language choice? Yes, to all above, as many will see it.

You know, it's like "a Christian loving someone to death" because they are afraid to tell people what they must do to be saved. Afraid they might hurt their feelings, or be rejected, or perhaps even persecuted. So they keep quiet, sweep it under the rug.

They let the "learned men" among them, those with degrees in language, whisper smooth sayings and tickle the ears of those who speak Spanish telling them, "Everything is going to be alright. No worries."

Thats what your doing Green, your telling them, "Don't worry about it". I tell you this, I wouldn't hire them for anything more than digging a ditch if they have poor english skills. Am I racist? Nope, I'm a contractor who WILL bring the job in on time and under budget. Because I don't have "tenure", I could care less about the "politics", I have a job to do. I live in the real world, not some intellectual utopia.

Club,

I guess I "flunked" that common sense degree you speak of. I've been able to find some very good employment in countries where I do not speak the local language.

I happen to speak about 60% or so of the language where I am now. No one denies me work because I cannot speak it well. That's only America that thinks so narrowly as that...well, ok, the Chinese may have a bit of that sort of prejudice too, based on my experience. But most folks don't. The only question they will ask is whether or not you can do what is necessary in a mutually beneficial manner. If it's cheaper and more convenient to hire someone else who has a better skillset, they will do that.

There's no denying the power of a good vocabulary. But there are other skills besides those of language only.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

[CoAspen]

Enjoyed your reply and perspective!

[CoAspen]

I'm wondering how religion got mixed up with being able to speak several languages!

Did the subject get changed in the middle of a post?

Yep, Americans, some at least, have an aversion to anyone speaking a different language under any circumstanse, sort of like our supiority in most everything.

In a classroom the teacher would expect the children to speak the language of the country they are living in, but ban it outside of the class room, ain't going to work!

Most countries students/citizens want to learn different languages, in paticular English, but us, no way! Our loss, because it also indicates our lack of desire to understand other people.

[ClubV12]

I actually learned to speak Spanish in school, never used it in real life. What language do you suppose I should have learned? Hawaiian? Malayo-Polynesian perhaps? How about Tagalog? When I was working in Japan, that language would have come in handy.

Point is, you don't have to speak a "non-native" tongue (see what I did there, to be "politically" correct for Brother Green) to understand the significance of knowing how to speak, write and use English anywhere in the world. There are significant benefits of that. In Japan the locals would often strike up a conversation in English with me purely for the reason of conversing with someone who actually spoke the language. They understood the value of English. As many countries do.

Green says, "No one denies me work because I cannot speak it well." Yes, I see you did flunk common sense. And your extreme bias is also showing. You say only Americans, and some Chinese demonstrate a bias toward foreign language. I'm a world traveler Green. I've lived out of my suit case for years, Hawaii was "home", but I was seldom there. Across the world AND in America, coast to coast, I have found good English skills are paramount to a good job. In many cases to getting ANY job.

Sure, YOU some get a decent job without non-native language skills, just as I got along OK in foreign countries without knowing the local language. "We" are anomalies.

Those who have only passing English skills, which they WILL have if they are allowed to widely speak their native tongue in school, WILL be handicapped. I suspect you have been so isolated in your work you have lost that reality check. Such is the downside of "higher education", often, falsely so called.

This remains a serious problem in Hawaii, where many languages are spoken. In fact, Hawaiian is recognized by the State as an official second language. But only a fool would take that seriously in lieu of English. It's just a place trying to hold on to it's culture, and I approve, even applaud that. Korean, VietNamese and every other sort of language is spoken there. Which one should I learn? I learned to understand pidgin to some degree, but some folks are SO steeped in pidgin along with their native tongue, they are all but incomprehensible.

Let the Texas students, like the Hawaii students, speak their language at home. Then put it aside and get serious about learning English.

Or you could tell them, Green, as apparently you have done, "It's OK, I got a good job and I didn't need to learn a different language."

[CoAspen]

Hmmmmm, am I detecting some 'anti-intellectualism' in some postings, certainly sounds that way. Education is good for the soul.

[ClubV12]

I approve of higher education very much, myself included. My X is a world class PhD Chemist, director of an international research group. My son is pursuing his PhD in geology. Yet I also recognize the downside of "higher education", again, falsely so called. There is no degree in common sense and in construction I learned to trust the foreman with somewhat limited education but vast experience more than a high level engineer. Including myself.

I see in Greens post an "anti education" slant that strongly comes across. A dismissal of the testimony of one who has been in the trenches because I don't speak of my degree. I suspect he would ignore the "foreman" of vast experience in favor of the engineer and that could be a costly mistake. Even a deadly one, literally.

As well I see significant bias toward "Americans" who support English as a first language, in favor of a more "worldly" view. I bring a "worldly" view to the table as well, it obviously differs from Greens perspective.

Brother Green and myself will have to agree to disagree, nicely, on this issue.

[OzarkWoman]

I disagree. I don't believe people should be punished for speaking their own, native language. I can understand requiring the students to answer questions and do their homework in English, but I can not understand doling out punishment to them when speaking in their own native language.

Nobody is stopping them from speaking it at home. When they are in this country and doing business in this country then one should be doing it in English. That is where we fall down compared to other countries. I say either learn and speak English or leave.

[bonnie]

Originally Posted By: cricket

I disagree. I don't believe people should be punished for speaking their own, native language. I can understand requiring the students to answer questions and do their homework in English, but I can not understand doling out punishment to them when speaking in their own native language.

Nobody is stopping them from speaking it at home. When they are in this country and doing business in this country then one should be doing it in English. That is where we fall down compared to other countries. I say either learn and speak English or leave.

It only mentions speaking spanish in class.Not forbidding them to speak spanish at other times