Prophetic Framework Acts 3, Isaiah 2, Daniel 2

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Samie,

None of the above.

But it can be called the Scriptural view UNTIL proven otherwise.

I appreciate the response and I apologise for asking. It only becomes the Scriptural view if it is consistent and covers all aspects of the revealed prophetic word. I was thinking of posting a few reasonably well recognised time periods apart from the 2300 evening / mornings, but will defer as this will sidetrack my main discussion in this thread. I am fairly sure you have encountered some of these, but you would prefer your End Time Chart.

Kind regards

Trevor

[Samie]

Hi Trevor,

Thanks for your response. However, it is not that I prefer my End Time Chart. I always prefer Scriptures. And that PREFERENCE is reflected in my End Time Chart. FOR THE RECORD, I am willing to RECONSIDER & CHANGE my position if it can be shown from the Bible that I am in error.

[Bert]

Hi Bert;

The wrath of God - the 7 last plagues - is reward for ALL the UNRIGHTEOUS, as life eternal is reward for ALL the RIGHTEOUS (see Rom 2:5-11). If they are pre-advent, then only the wicked alive just before the 2nd coming will experience them while the myriads of other wicked long dead by then since Cain's time are exempted from experiencing the plagues.

[Bert]

Hi Bert;

The 3rd of the 7 last plagues, involves prophet-slayers being made to drink blood. Jesus referred to prophet-slayers (Matt 23:31; Luke 11:47) and they were long dead. The fact that Scriptures portray them drinking blood in the 3rd plague is proof enough they had been resurrected. Placing the timing of the 7 last plagues at a time the prophet-slayers are not yet resurrected is against the plain declaration of Scriptures.

Samie, the verses in Matthew 23:31 and Luke 11:47 are in reference to the prophets of old who were killed by the Israelites because of their message. Read the story of King Ahab and Jezebel who tried to kill Elijah. Many of the olden prophets suffered affliction and death at the hands of the Israelites and their leaders. In verse 30 Jesus is castigating the scribes and Pharisees about what they might have done in those olden days. Luke 11:47 pertains to the same subject where Christ is admonishing the group He is addressing of what their fathers (ancestors) did to the prophets.

Your comment about the 3rd plague is taken completely out of context. The plagues affect the wicked who have shed the blood of the righteous since the time of Adam, and now they are going to have to drink blood, for there is no water. The third plague says that 'rivers and fountains of waters become blood'. Remember that the redeemed will be 'sealed' and protected against the effects of the plagues.

God bless,

Bert

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Bert,

I appreciate your latest response, and even though it is addressed to Samie I have taken a copy and will consider this in the next day or two. I have prepared the following mainly on Daniel 7, and I hope it does not overlap what you have stated in your latest Post.

After considering Daniel 2 from the book “The Prophecies of Daniel and Revelation” in an earlier Post, I attempted to make a similar review of the section relating to Daniel 7. I started well, commencing at page 110 and got as far as page 116 and then decided to check how many more pages were applicable and was surprised to find that Daniel 7 went until page 147. I had already discovered in pages 113-115 some significant differences. When I then browsed the rest of the pages I decided that it was too difficult a task. Although there was much common ground, such as the identification of the little horn as the Papacy, there were also many other different perspectives.

Turning to page 147 of the Book, there does not seem to be an adequate comment or explanation of Daniel 7:27:

Daniel 7:27 (KJV): And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

This clearly teaches that the kingdom will be under the whole heaven, not in heaven, and that all dominions shall serve and obey him, not be wiped out. Perhaps you could clarify, but my estimate of the SDA position appears to be that the nations are destroyed at the return of Jesus, and even if they are resurrected at the end of the 1000 years they are resurrected to be judged and destroyed again. If my assumption of the SDA position is correct, how then can “all dominions shall serve and obey him” if only the saints survive the two judgements? If this position is adopted, then all nations or dominions do not serve and obey him. If all the saints are kings and priests during and/or after the millenium, over whom do they rule, and for whom do they administer as priests?

I discussed a few aspects with one of our senior expositors, and he suggested the following is an important verse and this seems to run counter to the SDA position:

Isaiah 26:9 (KJV): With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

He suggested that in the time of trouble and judgement that will occur at the return of Jesus, then the circumstances of that day and the power of the gospel will be effectual in converting and subjecting the nations under Christ.

One of my favourite passages concerning the times of restoration and refreshing that will come with the return of Jesus is the following:

2 Samuel 23:1-5 (KJV): 1 Now these be the last words of David. David the son of Jesse said, and the man who was raised up on high, the anointed of the God of Jacob, and the sweet psalmist of Israel, said, 2 The Spirit of the LORD spake by me, and his word was in my tongue. 3 The God of Israel said, the Rock of Israel spake to me, He that ruleth over men must be just, ruling in the fear of God. 4 And he shall be as the light of the morning, when the sun riseth, even a morning without clouds; as the tender grass springing out of the earth by clear shining after rain. 5 Although my house be not so with God; yet he hath made with me an everlasting covenant, ordered in all things, and sure: for this is all my salvation, and all my desire, although he make it not to grow.

This covenant made with David concerning the Kingdom of God, based upon his future throne in Jerusalem becomes the basis of Isaiah’s appeal:

Isaiah 55:1-3 (KJV): 1 Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price. 2 Wherefore do ye spend money for that which is not bread? and your labour for that which satisfieth not? hearken diligently unto me, and eat ye that which is good, and let your soul delight itself in fatness. 3 Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David.

These “sure mercies of David” are sure and assured as they necessitated the resurrection of Jesus from the grave as Paul in Acts 13:34 and context testifies.

Kind regards

Trevor

[Bert]

Greetings again Bert,

I appreciate your latest response, and even though it is addressed to Samie I have taken a copy and will consider this in the next day or two. I have prepared the following mainly on Daniel 7, and I hope it does not overlap what you have stated in your latest Post.

After considering Daniel 2 from the book “The Prophecies of Daniel and Revelation” in an earlier Post, I attempted to make a similar review of the section relating to Daniel 7. I started well, commencing at page 110 and got as far as page 116 and then decided to check how many more pages were applicable and was surprised to find that Daniel 7 went until page 147. I had already discovered in pages 113-115 some significant differences. When I then browsed the rest of the pages I decided that it was too difficult a task. Although there was much common ground, such as the identification of the little horn as the Papacy, there were also many other different perspectives.

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Bert,

I appreciate your thorough reply and although I agree with much of your Post I will comment on a few portions. The first is from your reply to Samie and is similar to part of your Post to me.

The seven last plagues will be imposed upon the wicked just prior to Christ's second coming, and the seventh plague ushers in Armageddon as given in Rev. 16:16, for the next verse tells us that there 'is a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.'

[Bert]

Greetings again Bert,

I appreciate your thorough reply and although I agree with much of your Post I will comment on a few portions. The first is from your reply to Samie and is similar to part of your Post to me.

Quote:

Trevor - Now I am a bit confused, because in the above you seem to refer to the coming of Jesus, which I assume is at the beginning of the 1000 years, but in your response in the following you seem to refer to the end of the 1000 years.[/quote']

The confusion is caused by the implementation of the correct time frames...almost word by word. To provide an explanation in more detail by applying the time frames applicable to these texts will provide a correlation of the two texts in Daniel and Revelation. Daniel 7:26 addresses that 'the judgment will sit...'. A corrobating verse concerning the judgment is in Dan. 7:22, which says, '...and judgment was given to the saints of the most High...'; however, you will notice that this judgment affects the 'saints', meaning that the 'redeemed saints' are identified by the judgment. This in turn identifies those other than the 'saints' as the 'wicked', which includes those associated with the Papacy, symbolically represented by the 'horn' as given in the preceding verse 21. Jesus refers to the separation of the 'sheeps and goats' in Matt. 25:32, which is the result of the investigative judgment. The last part of verse 22 is akin to a 'sidebar' wherein it makes a statement that the 'time came that the saints possessed the kingdom'...the new earth of Revelation 21 as well as Daniel 7:27. In the interest of clarity, following is a quote from the SDA Commentary of Daniel 7:26. It says, "See on verses 9-11. The judgment will pass sentence of extinction upon the papacy. This power will continue its war against the saints to the very last. Then its dominion over them will be forever removed, and it will be consumed." This is still addressing events that occur prior to Christ's return, EXCEPT the reference at the end of verse 22, which parallels verse 27 as it changes the scene to the time frame AFTER the 1000 year period, and is amplified in Revelation 21.

A synopsis of the above can be explained by accepting that there is a judgment going on now, in heaven, that will terminate when Christ comes out of the temple in heaven and says "it is done", meaning the judgment. Then He comes! When He comes, the judgment will have been made that determines the redeemed (sheep) and the wicked (goats). The redeemed are part of the first resurrection, followed by the 1000 year millennial period, which is followed by the second resurrection of the wicked. At this time, the wicked will receive their punishment for their prior deeds, actions and decisions.

There is an unique doctrine of the Adventist faith that has engendered close scrutiny of this doctrine by members and non-members alike over a period of years. I have studied it and written about it, and I believe it is true. It is called the "Investigative Judgment". With a knowledge of the workings of this doctrine, which correlates the remission of sins through the shedding of blood in the earthly sanctuary and the shedding of blood by Christ at Calvary, one can more easily understand issues that involve judgment references in scripture. It is the result of the 'great disappointment' of 1844 concerning the 2300 day/year prophecy in which the verse in Daniel says, '...unto 2300 days, then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.' In 1844, this was interpreted to mean 'the earth' as being the sanctuary that'was to be cleansed. After much prayer and study, especially in Hebrews, it was determined that the 'cleansing' process in that verse alluded to the heavenly cleansing of the sanctuary. If you recall, the cleansing of the earthly temple was done yearly on what is known as the 'Day of Atonement'.

I hope the above provides a clearer explanation to your confusion cited above.

God bless,

Bert

[Samie]

Originally Posted By: Samie

Hi Bert;

The 3rd of the 7 last plagues, involves prophet-slayers being made to drink blood. Jesus referred to prophet-slayers (Matt 23:31; Luke 11:47) and they were long dead. The fact that Scriptures portray them drinking blood in the 3rd plague is proof enough they had been resurrected. Placing the timing of the 7 last plagues at a time the prophet-slayers are not yet resurrected is against the plain declaration of Scriptures.

Samie, the verses in Matthew 23:31 and Luke 11:47 are in reference to the prophets of old who were killed by the Israelites because of their message. Read the story of King Ahab and Jezebel who tried to kill Elijah. Many of the olden prophets suffered affliction and death at the hands of the Israelites and their leaders. In verse 30 Jesus is castigating the scribes and Pharisees about what they might have done in those olden days. Luke 11:47 pertains to the same subject where Christ is admonishing the group He is addressing of what their fathers (ancestors) did to the prophets.

Your comment about the 3rd plague is taken completely out of context.

[Samie]

Originally Posted By: Samie

Christ Himself said that when He comes again he will reward every man according to what each has done (Matt 16:27; Rev 22:12). That every man had to be rewarded NECESSITATES that every man be present to receive his own reward. This explains why He said that a time is coming when ALL dead - both righteous and wicked - shall hear his voice and come forth (John 5:28, 29). This occurs at the 2nd Coming (Dan 12:1,2). With every one born on this earth alive, every eye will see Him come in the clouds (Rev 1:7), EACH ONE ready to receive his own reward.

The inference to 'rewarding every man according to what each has done' applies only to the redeemed, not the wicked, who will be struck down by the brightness of His coming (2 Thess. 2:8).

[Bert]

Originally Posted By: Bert

Quote:

Samie, the verses in Matthew 23:31 and Luke 11:47 are in reference to the prophets of old who were killed by the Israelites because of their message. Read the story of King Ahab and Jezebel who tried to kill Elijah. Many of the olden prophets suffered affliction and death at the hands of the Israelites and their leaders. In verse 30 Jesus is castigating the scribes and Pharisees about what they might have done in those olden days. Luke 11:47 pertains to the same subject where Christ is admonishing the group He is addressing of what their fathers (ancestors) did to the prophets.

Your comment about the 3rd plague is taken completely out of context.

You were saying my comment about the 3rd plague was out of context, but proceeded to post in accordance with what I was saying. Here (highlighting mine):

Originally Posted By: Bert

The plagues affect the wicked who have shed the blood of the righteous since the time of Adam, and now they are going to have to drink blood, for there is no water. The third plague says that 'rivers and fountains of waters become blood'. ...

That's precisely what I was saying, brother. Sorry, but you seem to be confused. You correctly believe that the "plagues affect the wicked who have shed the blood of the righteous since the time of Adam", BUT at the same time believe that they are to be poured BEFORE these wicked are resurrected. Can you explain how these dead wicked can be affected by the plagues which you said are to be poured out BEFORE the 2nd Coming?

[/quote']

Yep, I missed that one. Not because I am confused, but because of a mental lapse between my 'brain' and my 'typing! My comment should read 'The plagues affect the living wicked who have 'shed the blood of saints and prophets' (Rev. 16:6), which is occurring now to some degree, and will increase as the end of time approaches. The statement of these wicked being 'given blood to drink' (Rev. 16:6), is predicated upon verse 4, which says that 'the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became flood.' As I indicated in one of my other posts, obviously the only fluid available to drink for the living wicked will be what verse 4 says...blood. We know that the righteous have been sealed and are protected from this plague.

Hope this clarifies my error in thought processes as you cited.

[Samie]

Originally Posted By: Samie

That's precisely what I was saying, brother. Sorry, but you seem to be confused. You correctly believe that the "plagues affect the wicked who have shed the blood of the righteous since the time of Adam", BUT at the same time believe that they are to be poured BEFORE these wicked are resurrected. Can you explain how these dead wicked can be affected by the plagues which you said are to be poured out BEFORE the 2nd Coming?

Yep, I missed that one. Not because I am confused, but because of a mental lapse between my 'brain' and my 'typing! My comment should read 'The plagues affect the living wicked who have 'shed the blood of saints and prophets' (Rev. 16:6), which is occurring now to some degree, and will increase as the end of time approaches. The statement of these wicked being 'given blood to drink' (Rev. 16:6), is predicated upon verse 4, which says that 'the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became flood.' As I indicated in one of my other posts, obviously the only fluid available to drink for the living wicked will be what verse 4 says...blood. We know that the righteous have been sealed and are protected from this plague.

Hope this clarifies my error in thought processes as you cited.

I admire you in admitting your error. Few nowadays have the courage in admitting mistakes.

But still, you need to clarify why those who shed the blood of prophets whom Jesus referred to, are not among those in the 3rd plague, but only the prophet slayers in the last days still alive just before Christ returns. I say this because if you believe there are no more prophets after Sister White, there would be no prophet slayers in the last days simply because there are no prophets to slay!

Since prophet slayers had been long dead and there are prophet slayers in the 3rd plague, their presence in the 3rd plague indicates they had been resurrected. When did that resurrection occur when you believe no wicked gets resurrected when Christ returns?

[TrevorL]

The following statement by Edward Gibbon in his “Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire” gives his assessment and an insight into the belief of the early Christians in the 1st and 2nd Centuries.

Quote:

“The ancient and popular doctrine of the Millennium was intimately connected with the second coming of Christ. As the works of creation had been finished in six days, their duration, in their present state, according to a tradition which was attributed to the prophet Elijah, was fixed to six thousand years. By the same analogy it was inferred that this long period of labor and contention, which was now almost elapsed (as they supposed), would be succeeded by a joyful Sabbath of a thousand years; and that Christ, with the triumphant band of the Saints and the elect who had escaped death, or who had been miraculously revived, would reign upon earth till the time appointed for the last and general resurrection. So pleasing was this hope to the minds of believers, that the New Jerusalem, the seat of this blissful kingdom, was quickly adorned with all the gayest colors of the imagination. A felicity consisting only of pure and spiritual pleasure would have appeared too refined for its inhabitants, who were still supposed to possess their human nature and senses. A garden of Eden with the amusements of pastoral life, was no longer suited to the advanced state of society which prevailed under the Roman Empire. A city was therefore erected, of gold and precious stones, and a supernatural plenty of corn and wine was bestowed on the adjacent territory; in the free enjoyment of whose spontaneous productions, the happy and benevolent people was never to be restrained by any jealous laws of exclusive property. The assurance of such a millennium was carefully inculcated by a succession of fathers, from Justin Martyr and Irenaeus, who conversed with the immediate disciples of the apostles, down to Lactantius, who was preceptor to the son of Constantine. Though it might not be universally received, it appears to have been the reigning sentiment of the orthodox believers; and it seems so well adapted to the desires and apprehensions of mankind, that it must have contributed in a very considerable degree to the progress of the Christian faith. But when the edifice of the church was almost completed, the temporary support was laid aside. The doctrine of Christ’s reign upon earth was at first treated as a profound allegory, was considered by degrees as a doubtful and useless opinion, and was at length rejected as the absurd invention of heresy and fanaticism. A mysterious prophecy (the Apocalypse) which still forms a part of the sacred canon, but which was thought to favor the exploded sentiment, has very narrowly escaped the proscription of THE CHURCH.”

This is the impartial testimony of a man who was well acquainted with the literature of the times contemporary with, and immediately succeeding, those of the apostles. Gibbon’s testimony is important and useful to establish the following:

1. That it proves that the nearer we approach to the times of the Apostles, the stronger and more universal was the belief of the Apocalyptic teaching concerning the Millennium, and reign of Christ and the Saints upon the earth;

2. That it was well adapted to the desires and apprehensions of mankind;

3. That so long as it continued the reigning sentiment, the faith rapidly progressed;

4. That when the edifice of the “Church” was almost completed, the doctrine of Christ’s reign began to be abandoned;

5. That when they had completed the Apostasy, the doctrine was repudiated as heresy and fanaticism; and

6. That the Apocalypse itself had a narrow escape of being expelled from the canon of inspiration.

Kind regards

Trevor

[Samie]

Quote:

The ancient and popular doctrine of the Millennium was intimately connected with the second coming of Christ.

The testimony of Scriptures tells us that the Millennium will be spent by the Bride (the saints) and the Groom (our Savior) here on earth, although the metropolis is NOT the New Jerusalem, the holy city, but the beloved city in the camp of the saints, they themselves constructed.

[8thdaypriest]

The PRIESTHOOD - a missing ingredient in this discussion:

I took time to read thru the arguments in this discussion before jumping back in.

From Mt. Sinai the LORD promised ALL of Israel that they would be "a kingdom of priests".

Peter says "we are being build up "a holy priesthood"

Rev. 20:6 says that those who come up in the first resurrection will be "priests of God and of Christ"

Revelation 7:9, 13-14 The “great multitude” who “come out of great tribulation,” are “arrayed in white robes” [priestly garments] and “serve Him day and night in His temple.”

NOTE: Only priests were allowed to enter the Temple.

The 24 Elders say they have been made "priests"

Soooooo - it appears the redeemed WILL become priests.

QUESTION: What need of priests?

If the redeemed are all saved, and the wicked are all destroyed - then what need of priests???

If we are to become priests, then - like Aaron and his Sons (the type) we CANNOT MINISTER - until "the 8th day".

Why is it so far fetched to believe that we (future priests) will spend the 7th millennium at the Holy City??

The Holy City is the doorway to Heaven, the "true tabernacle".

Aaron and sons were to "remain at the door of the Tabernacle" until the 8th day.

Aaron and sons BEGAN to minster as priests at "the 8th day".

I believe we (the redeemed) will minister as priests - on the earth - at the 8th millennium,

WHEN the "rest of the dead" are raised.

We will teach them and govern them.

Christ said that He would give the overcomers "power over the nations" and we "will reign with Him".

Blessings,

Rachel Cory

Prophecy Viewpoint

[Samie]

From the Levites came the priests. From Aaron, a Levite, came the High Priests. Unless a Levite is from Aaron's line, he cannot be a High Priest. But the Levitical priesthood was changed. Jesus was not a Levite. He was from the tribe of Judah, yet God ordained Him to be High Priest.

In the Millennium, as it is now, we, reckoned as spiritual Israelites, are simple priests (hiereus), NOT high priests (archiereus). Our Lord & Savior will forever be the High Priest.

The Bible tells of only one general resurrection of both righteous and wicked (see Dan 12:1,2; John 5:28,29; Acts 24:15) where the FIRST to be resurrected are the righteous, hence the term "First Resurrection". This resurrection will occur at the 2nd Coming, where every man gets rewarded: the righteous inherits life eternal and ushered to heaven for the wedding of the Lamb; the wicked suffers the 7 last plagues, when at its culmination, in the battle of Armageddon where Christ with His Bride comes back to earth for that battle and where all wicked will be slain.

The Millennium then starts, with all wicked dead and Satan bound, and Christ with His Bride fresh from victory in the battle of Armageddon here on earth. At the end of the Millennium, the wicked will again be resurrected to be thrown into the lake of fire.

[TrevorL]

Greetings again 8thdaypriest,

The PRIESTHOOD - a missing ingredient in this discussion:

Soooooo - it appears the redeemed WILL become priests.

QUESTION: What need of priests?

If the redeemed are all saved, and the wicked are all destroyed - then what need of priests???

You are ignoring the Scriptures quoted in the opening Post, especially Isaiah 2 that clearly teaches that a remnant of the nations will become mortal inhabitants of the earth during the 1000 years. The redeemed will be kings and priests to these mortals.

Isaiah 2:1-4 (KJV): 1 The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem. 2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD’S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. 3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. 4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

Revelation 5:9-10 (KJV): 9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Revelation 20:6 (KJV): Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

There must be mortals during the 1000 years for the redeemed will be kings and priests, a function that has no meaning if all the rest of mankind is wiped out during the 1000 years. Possibly you may like to change your title to “7thdaypriest”.

Kind regards

Trevor

[8thdaypriest]

From the Levites came the priests. From Aaron, a Levite, came the High Priests. Unless a Levite is from Aaron's line, he cannot be a High Priest. But the Levitical priesthood was changed. Jesus was not a Levite. He was from the tribe of Judah, yet God ordained Him to be High Priest.

In the Millennium, as it is now, we, reckoned as spiritual Israelites, are simple priests (hiereus), NOT high priests (archiereus). Our Lord & Savior will forever be the High Priest.

The Bible tells of only one general resurrection of both righteous and wicked (see Dan 12:1,2; John 5:28,29; Acts 24:15) where the FIRST to be resurrected are the righteous, hence the term "First Resurrection". This resurrection will occur at the 2nd Coming, where every man gets rewarded: the righteous inherits life eternal and ushered to heaven for the wedding of the Lamb; the wicked suffers the 7 last plagues, when at its culmination, in the battle of Armageddon where Christ with His Bride comes back to earth for that battle and where all wicked will be slain.

The Millennium then starts, with all wicked dead and Satan bound, and Christ with His Bride fresh from victory in the battle of Armageddon here on earth. At the end of the Millennium, the wicked will again be resurrected to be thrown into the lake of fire.

So - the wicked are raised to be judged and are left to be consumed by the 7 last plagues, and the earth burning up.

THEN - 1000 years later - they are resurrected AGAIN, to hear judgment against them AGAIN, to be burned up AGAIN.

I just don't believe our God is like that. THAT is overkill, and is NOT NECESSARY.

I like the scenario I have come to understand much better. Those raised AFTER the 1000 years are "the rest of the dead". They are raised to continue their physical lives, to learn of Yahweh, and to CHOOSE whether they will covenant with Him or no.

Gog and Magog is composed of those from "the nations" - "the rest of the dead" - who choose to rebel against Yeshua. They try to overthrow His reign. God the Father saves Jerusalem with fire from heaven, which consumes this mob army.

It's JUST, and it's a REASONABLE scenario.

All those prophecies which tell of non-Israelites coming up to Jerusalem to learn the ways of the LORD belong AFTER "the rest of the dead" are raised.

Blessings,

Rachel Cory

Prophecy Viewpoint

[8thdaypriest]

Greetings again 8thdaypriest,

Originally Posted By: 8thdaypriest

The PRIESTHOOD - a missing ingredient in this discussion:

Soooooo - it appears the redeemed WILL become priests.

QUESTION: What need of priests?

If the redeemed are all saved, and the wicked are all destroyed - then what need of priests???

You are ignoring the Scriptures quoted in the opening Post, especially Isaiah 2 that clearly teaches that a remnant of the nations will become mortal inhabitants of the earth during the 1000 years. The redeemed will be kings and priests to these mortals.

Isaiah 2:1-4 (KJV): 1 The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem. 2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD’S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. 3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. 4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

Revelation 5:9-10 (KJV): 9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Revelation 20:6 (KJV): Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

There must be mortals during the 1000 years for the redeemed will be kings and priests, a function that has no meaning if all the rest of mankind is wiped out during the 1000 years. Possibly you may like to change your title to “7thdaypriest”.

Kind regards

Trevor

Hi Trevor,

I am not ignoring those passages.

I just believe that those passages

and many others which describe non-Israelites (the nations, Gentiles, strangers, aliens) living with Israel on the earth when Messiah is reigning from His throne at Jerusalem,

BELONG

at "the 8th Day" - not the 7th.

The priests cannot minister until their consecration is complete at the 8th day.

"With the LORD a day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." (2 Peter 3:8)

The 8th day will be the 8th millennium!!

Don't know about you - but I am not prepared to "reign" over anyone just yet. I feel I will need much preparation - like a thousand years at the City learning the ways of the LORD.

We are sooooo messed up. We cannot be instantly healed of everything we have experienced during our lives here. If we are going to be compassionate priests like our Savior, then we need a LOT of healing - a thousand years worth.

Blessings,

Rachel Cory

Prophecy Viewpoint

[8thdaypriest]

Here is one of my favorite verses:

Isaiah 61:4-9 “And they shall rebuild the old ruins. They shall raise up the former desolations. And they shall repair the ruined cities, the desolations of many generations. Strangers [non-Israelites] shall stand and feed your flocks, and the sons of the foreigner [non-Israelite] shall be your plowmen and your vine dressers. But you shall be named the Priests of the LORD. Men shall call you the Servants of our God. You shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory you shall boast. Instead of your shame you shall have double honor, and instead of confusion they shall rejoice in their portion. Therefore in their land they shall possess double [the inheritance of the firstborn].” “Everlasting joy shall be theirs. For I, the LORD, love justice; I hate robbery for burnt offering; I will direct their work in truth, and will make with them an everlasting covenant. Their descendants shall be known among the Gentiles, and their offspring among the people. All who see them shall acknowledge them, that they are the posterity whom the LORD has blessed.”

NOTE: The firstborn originally inherited a “double portion” (Deut. 22:17). Their inheritance included a “double portion”of the land, AND the “priesthood.” (This inheritance was split after Jacob.) Each firstborn son became the representative of the family unit before God. God said, “Israel is my son, even My firstborn” (Exo. 4:22). Therefore Israel (all of the redeemed) will inherit the priesthood and the "double portion".

NOTE: The Levites were given NO inheritance in the land. Therefore the priesthood presented in this prophecy CANNOT be the Levite priesthood.

[Samie]

Originally Posted By: Samie

From the Levites came the priests. From Aaron, a Levite, came the High Priests. Unless a Levite is from Aaron's line, he cannot be a High Priest. But the Levitical priesthood was changed. Jesus was not a Levite. He was from the tribe of Judah, yet God ordained Him to be High Priest.

In the Millennium, as it is now, we, reckoned as spiritual Israelites, are simple priests (hiereus), NOT high priests (archiereus). Our Lord & Savior will forever be the High Priest.

The Bible tells of only one general resurrection of both righteous and wicked (see Dan 12:1,2; John 5:28,29; Acts 24:15) where the FIRST to be resurrected are the righteous, hence the term "First Resurrection". This resurrection will occur at the 2nd Coming, where every man gets rewarded: the righteous inherits life eternal and ushered to heaven for the wedding of the Lamb; the wicked suffers the 7 last plagues, when at its culmination, in the battle of Armageddon where Christ with His Bride comes back to earth for that battle and where all wicked will be slain.

The Millennium then starts, with all wicked dead and Satan bound, and Christ with His Bride fresh from victory in the battle of Armageddon here on earth. At the end of the Millennium, the wicked will again be resurrected to be thrown into the lake of fire.

So - the wicked are raised to be judged and are left to be consumed by the 7 last plagues

[Samie]

Here is one of my favorite verses:

Isaiah 61:4-9 “And they shall rebuild the old ruins. They shall raise up the former desolations. And they shall repair the ruined cities, the desolations of many generations. Strangers [non-Israelites] shall stand and feed your flocks, and the sons of the foreigner [non-Israelite] shall be your plowmen and your vine dressers. But you shall be named the Priests of the LORD. Men shall call you the Servants of our God. You shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory you shall boast. Instead of your shame you shall have double honor, and instead of confusion they shall rejoice in their portion. Therefore in their land they shall possess double [the inheritance of the firstborn].” “Everlasting joy shall be theirs. For I, the LORD, love justice; I hate robbery for burnt offering; I will direct their work in truth, and will make with them an everlasting covenant. Their descendants shall be known among the Gentiles, and their offspring among the people. All who see them shall acknowledge them, that they are the posterity whom the LORD has blessed.”

NOTE: The firstborn originally inherited a “double portion” (Deut. 22:17). Their inheritance included a “double portion”of the land, AND the “priesthood.” (This inheritance was split after Jacob.) Each firstborn son became the representative of the family unit before God. God said, “Israel is my son, even My firstborn” (Exo. 4:22). Therefore Israel (all of the redeemed) will inherit the priesthood and the "double portion".

NOTE: The Levites were given NO inheritance in the land. Therefore the priesthood presented in this prophecy CANNOT be the Levite priesthood.

Do you believe the "they" in v4 refers to a group distinct and different from the group referred to by "you" in v6?

If Yes, then could you please differentiate between these two groups? Who are the "they" in v4? Who are the "you" in v6?

[8thdaypriest]

Samie,

You are using strong language to say that I do not adhere to Scripture.

You are very entitled to your opinion but it is just that - your opinion.

And my interpretation is my opinion.

I personally believe that my opinion holds more weight than yours. But again - that is my opinion.

I would enjoy dialoging with you more, IF you would say IMO (in my opinion) rather than presenting your view as the only possible interpretation.

Blessings,

Rachel Cory

Prophecy Viewpoint

[8thdaypriest]

Originally Posted By: 8thdaypriest

Here is one of my favorite verses:

Isaiah 61:4-9 “And they shall rebuild the old ruins. They shall raise up the former desolations. And they shall repair the ruined cities, the desolations of many generations. Strangers [non-Israelites] shall stand and feed your flocks, and the sons of the foreigner [non-Israelite] shall be your plowmen and your vine dressers. But you shall be named the Priests of the LORD. Men shall call you the Servants of our God. You shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory you shall boast. Instead of your shame you shall have double honor, and instead of confusion they shall rejoice in their portion. Therefore in their land they shall possess double [the inheritance of the firstborn].” “Everlasting joy shall be theirs. For I, the LORD, love justice; I hate robbery for burnt offering; I will direct their work in truth, and will make with them an everlasting covenant. Their descendants shall be known among the Gentiles, and their offspring among the people. All who see them shall acknowledge them, that they are the posterity whom the LORD has blessed.”

NOTE: The firstborn originally inherited a “double portion” (Deut. 22:17). Their inheritance included a “double portion”of the land, AND the “priesthood.” (This inheritance was split after Jacob.) Each firstborn son became the representative of the family unit before God. God said, “Israel is my son, even My firstborn” (Exo. 4:22). Therefore Israel (all of the redeemed) will inherit the priesthood and the "double portion".

NOTE: The Levites were given NO inheritance in the land. Therefore the priesthood presented in this prophecy CANNOT be the Levite priesthood.

Do you believe the "they" in v4 refers to a group distinct and different from the group referred to by "you" in v6?

If Yes, then could you please differentiate between these two groups? Who are the "they" in v4? Who are the "you" in v6?

"They" would refer to the "sons of the foreigner" who will do the work, while "you" refers to the "priests of the LORD" who will be directing and supervising.

[8thdaypriest]

REASON WHY I BELIEVE THE EARTH WILL BURN UP AND THE WICKED WITH IT:

2 Peter 3:10 “But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.”

Zephaniah 1:14-18 “. . . On the day of the Lord’s wrath; And all the earth will be devoured in the fire of His jealousy, For He will make a complete end, Indeed a terrifying one, Of all the inhabitants of the earth.” NAS

Genesis 6:13 “And God said to Noah, ‘The end of all flesh has come before Me, for the earth is filled with violence through them; and behold, I will destroy them with the earth.’”

Luke 17:26-30 “And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man: . . . the flood came and destroyed them all. Likewise as it was also in the days of Lot: . . . on the day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all. Even so will it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed.”

NOTE: In Noah’s day, the flood destroyed every human being outside of the ark. On the day that Lot was led out of Sodom, the fire destroyed every living thing in the city. “Even so,” means “just like that.” The last plagues will destroy all life on earth.

Rev. "And all who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb.”

NOTE: Every tribe, tongue, and nation - this is worldwide! Anyone who worships the beast or takes his mark will “drink the wine of the wrath of God full strength (Rev. 14:9-10). The “full wrath’” of God is poured out as seven last bowl judgments (Rev. 15:1).

2 Peter 3:7, 10-12 “But the heavens and the earth which now exist are kept in store by the same word, reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men . . .” “But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to His promise look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.”

THE LAND WILL “REST”

The Lord commanded that every 7th year the land should rest - no crops were to be planted. Nothing from the field or vine was to be harvested. It was called the sabbatical year (Lev. 25:2-7). They were to sow again - in the eighth year.

This cycle of planting for six years followed by a year of rest was a prophecy. The earth has groaned under a load of sin for almost 6000 years. The earth will soon rest for 1000 years. The gospel will not be sown during that time, and no souls will be “harvested.” We will begin anew, to share the good news of salvation, with those raised to life at the 8th millennium.

NOTE: The seventy years of Babylonian captivity during which the land lay desolate, were to fulfill 70 sabbatical years (rest years) which Israel had not kept. Israel had been in rebellion for 490 years (2 Chron. 36:21). The “rest” of desolation after the Babylonians destroyed “the land,” is a type (or symbolic prophecy) of the desolation which will come upon the whole earth, because men have forsaken the Law of the LORD.

ACCORDING TO LEVITICUS 26:33-35

DESOLATION IS "REST".

So yes - I believe the earth will lie desolate for 1000 years AFTER the fire of the "day of the LORD".

Blessings,

Rachel Cory

Prophecy Viewpoint