From what has the believer been saved?

[Robert]

How many times have you heard someone exclaim, "I was saved back in ______"?

 

My question is, from what have we been saved?

 

Please, use the Bible as proof of your answer. 

 

 

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

the only ones I ever heard say something like that were a few Baptists...

[8thdaypriest]

SAVED

02421 hy:x' chayah {khaw-yaw'}
Meaning:  1) to live, have life, remain alive, sustain life, live prosperously, live for ever, be quickened, be alive, be restored to life or health

1a) (Qal) 1a1) to live

1a1a) to have life

1a1b) to continue in life, remain alive

1a1c) to sustain life, to live on or upon

1a1d) to live (prosperously)

1a2) to revive, be quickened

1a2a) from sickness

1a2b) from discouragement

1a2c) from faintness

1a2d) from death

1b) (Piel) 1b1) to preserve alive, let live

1b2) to give life

1b3) to quicken, revive, refresh

1b3a) to restore to life

1b3b) to cause to grow

1b3c) to restore

1b3d) to revive 1c) (Hiphil)

1c1) to preserve alive, let live

1c2) to quicken, revive

1c2a) to restore (to health)

1c2b) to revive

1c2c) to restore to life

 

The word always seems connected with the preservation or restoration of life.

 

But life itself is certainly NOT ENOUGH.  My life has been filled with a moderate dose of chronic pain.  Pain - in various forms - is present everywhere.  So just being alive is NOT "salvation".  

At present - we have only the promise.  We have His promise that we will - one day - be free from the presence and power of Evil (both within and without).

We have His promise of healing - of body, of mind, of environment.

 

Some of us have experienced miracles.  I have - several times.  Those are a small vision of what is to come.

 

The most important aspect of my salvation - presently (I have already experienced it.)

is that I have been saved from a feeling of worthlessness.

 

Before I knew Jesus, I felt that I was no better than any other animal - dog/cat/etc.

I thought we were all just struggling for survival, and pleasure.

I was taught the Bible stories by my Mom, but I had no real personal encounter with the LORD.

 

When I actually experienced Jesus - I KNEW that I was loved, that I was of inestimable WORTH. 

Just knowing THAT - changed my life. 

 

Blessings,

Rachel Cory

Prophecy Viewpoint

[Robert]

the only ones I ever heard say something like that were a few Baptists...

 

Okay....Maybe it is because I live in the South that I've heard this many times....???

[Robert]

 

1a2d) from death

 

 

 

You had a lot of info; so I picked the one that best matches the Bible.  Yes, Jesus came to save us from death, but which death?  Remember, there are two deaths:  The 1st death that we all experience sooner or later.  And the 2nd death.  From which death did Christ come to save us?

[8thdaypriest]

OK Robert.  I'll play along.

 

Are we not "saved from" or "out of" the first type of death - at  the Second Coming, when we are awakened from our "sleep in the dust" ?

 

But if you are trying to say that Christ saves us only from "the second death", then are you going to say that Christ therefore DIED the "second death" - not simply the first type of death?

 

NO - I do not believe that Christ died the "second death" - BECAUSE - there is no resurrection from the "second death".

 

I believe the second TYPE of death, will happen WHEN God the Father destroys the "spirit" essence of individuals - His memory of them - that which He retains which enables Him to resurrect that person with mind intact.  That "spirit" essence, which is retained by God after the "first" type of death - will be destroyed - if an individual is judged "worthy of death". 

 

But Christ WAS resurrected - therefore - He did NOT die the "second" type of "death".

 

Christ "was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death".   Angels do not DIE PHYSICALLY. 

Angels must be finally consumed in the special "lake of fire" which was made especially for this purpose.

 

There is a study at my website titled "The Test - Why Jesus had to Die"  and another titled "Dominion". 

 

Blessings,

Rachel Cory

Prophecy Viewpoint

[JoeMo]

Hi Rachel,

I agree with you that Christ did not die the Second Death; but I would propose that He put Himself at risk for dying the second death.  Had He in one jot or tittle broken the smallest piece of God's Law, He would have died the second death.  The Sacrifice had to be perfect for salvation to be made manifest.  The smallest imperfection possibly could have disqualified Him as the Messiah, and subjected Him to the 2nd death because there was no one to save Him (at least that I can think of).  Just a thought ...

[Robert]

But if you are trying to say that Christ saves us only from "the second death", then are you going to say that Christ therefore DIED the "second death" - not simply the first type of death?

 

NO - I do not believe that Christ died the "second death" - BECAUSE - there is no resurrection from the "second death".

Upon Christ as our substitute and surety was laid the iniquity of us all. He was counted a transgressor, that He might redeem us from the condemnation of the law. The guilt of every descendant of Adam was pressing upon His heart. The wrath of God against sin, the terrible manifestation of His displeasure because of iniquity, filled the soul of His Son with consternation. All His life Christ had been publishing to a fallen world the good news of the Father’s mercy and pardoning love. Salvation for the chief of sinners was His theme. But now with the terrible weight of guilt He bears, He cannot see the Father’s reconciling face. The withdrawal of the divine countenance from the Saviour in this hour of supreme anguish pierced His heart with a sorrow that can never be fully understood by man. So great was this agony that His physical pain was hardly felt.

Satan with his fierce temptations wrung the heart of Jesus. The Saviour could not see through the portals of the tomb. Hope did not present to Him His coming forth from the grave a conqueror, or tell Him of the Father’s acceptance of the sacrifice. He feared that sin was so offensive to God that Their separation was to be eternal. Christ felt the anguish which the sinner will feel when mercy shall no longer plead for the guilty race. It was the sense of sin, bringing the Father’s wrath upon Him as man’s substitute, that made the cup He drank so bitter, and broke the heart of the Son of God. (DA 753)

[Samie]

How many times have you heard someone exclaim, "I was saved back in ______"?

 

My question is, from what have we been saved?

 

Please, use the Bible as proof of your answer. 

 

NKJ Matthew 1:21 "And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name JESUS, for He will save His people from their sins."

 

Contingent upon the death of our Savior on the cross, God has already saved us by His grace BEFORE time began:

 

NKJ 2 Timothy 1:9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began

The saving was NOT according to our works: as in we did something like "believe in Him".  We were NOT yet existent when God saved us by his grace.

[Robert]

NKJ Matthew 1:21 "And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name JESUS, for He will save His people from their sins."

A] From the wages of sin, death?

or

B] From sin itself?

[Woody]

Robert - I ain't seen no Christians saved from committing sins. Instead .... I have to conclude the verse is speaking of being saved from the curse of the law - the 'wages' of sin.

[Samie]

 

A] From the wages of sin, death?

or

B] From sin itself?

 

From sin itself, as Matt 1:21 EXPLICITLY says.

 

And it is the world - Adam & Eve and all their descendants - He came to save, NOT the righteous only.  But that is but the First Dimension of the Gospel - the Past Tense of Salvation. At conception, a person is ushered into the Second Dimension of the Gospel - the Present Tense of Salvation. Our response to God's leading through the Holy Spirit in the 2nd Dimension determines our final destiny which will be given when Christ returns - the Third Dimension of the Gospel or the Future Tense of Salvation.

 

If in the 2nd Dimension we choose to overcome evil with good (Rom 12:21), our names will not be blotted out when we die (Heb 9:27) from the book of life (Rev 3:5) where our names were written from the foundation of the world (Rev 17:8).  "Blotting" signifies that which to be blotted MUST have been written down first, otherwise there is nothing to blot.

[Robert]

From sin itself, as Matt 1:21 EXPLICITLY says.

I don't believe it explicitly stated He came to save us from sin itself.

By "sin itself" do you mean a life of perfect obedience to the law of God in word, deed and thought?

[Robert]

Robert - I ain't seen no Christians saved from committing sins. Instead .... I have to conclude the verse is speaking of being saved from the curse of the law - the 'wages' of sin.

I tend to agree, although as we rest in Christ's finished work we begin to grow. But growth is not perfection. On this Ellen White stated:

 

"None of the apostles and prophets ever claimed to be without sin. Men who have lived the nearest to God, men who would sacrifice life itself rather than knowingly commit a wrong act, men whom God has honored with divine light and power, have confessed the sinfulness of their nature. They have put no confidence in the flesh, have claimed no righteousness of their own, but have trusted wholly in the righteousness of Christ.

So will it be with all who behold Christ. The nearer we come to Jesus, and the more clearly we discern the purity of His character, the more clearly shall we see the exceeding sinfulness of sin, and the less shall we feel like exalting ourselves. There will be a continual reaching out of the soul after God, a continual, earnest, heartbreaking confession of sin and humbling of the heart before Him. At every advance step in our Christian experience our repentance will deepen. We shall know that our sufficiency is in Christ alone and shall make the apostle's confession our own: "I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing." "God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world." Romans 7:18; Galatians 6:14.

Let the recording angels write the history of the holy struggles and conflicts of the people of God; let them record their prayers and tears; but let not God be dishonored by the declaration from human lips, "I am sinless; I am holy." Sanctified lips will never give utterance to such presumptuous words." [AA 561,562]

[8thdaypriest]

Rachael,

 

All, with few Bible exceptions die the first death, but that death is not a direct punishment for sin. We die the first death because of the removeal of the tree of life from man's access. (See Gen 3:22)

All , both the good and evil, die and are raised from the first death ( see Rev 20:5) So it is clear that Christ's death does not save us from the first death.

It is the second death that the righteous are saved from , for that is the punishment for unconfessed and/or unrepentant sins. Jesus was to be punished as a sinner, though not for His sins but rather for the sins of the world. Therefore  It was said of Him :

 

1 John 2:2   And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the whole world.  4:10   Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son [to be] the propitiation for our sins.

 

Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. 

 

The spirtual agony that Christ felt in the Garden of Gethsemane and on the cross as his Father withdrew His presence was greater than His physical pain. He went to the cross not as a martyr would, singing and praising God; but rather as a malfactor, experiencing the punishment for sin.

 

 One might say Christ experienced the horroble agony of the second death without suffering its permanence. He "tasted" it so the redeemed would not have to. 

 

What amazing love is that.

I cannot disagree with what you've posted here Jackson.

 

One thing I might say.  A person who cares nothing for God, does not FEEL agony in being separated from God.  Christ FELT the agony because of His bond with His Father. 

 

Yes - I know - it is far beyond our comprehension. 

 

The "first" type of death, IS a consequence of sin -  Adam's sin.

"As in Adam all die". 

 

I believe it all comes down to "dominion". 

 

At the conclusion of the Daniel 7 judgment, Christ is given "dominion".

The dominion is taken away from Satan.

 

It is the dominion which once belonged to Adam/Eve and was stolen by Satan.

 

Once Christ has the dominion, then He can judge and reign.

 

His "test" was all about regaining the dominion from Satan.

God needed a man (a human being) who obeyed Him perfectly, who never gave any service to Satan.

God could give the dominion to THAT MAN - and the unfallen beings would agree it was just to do so.

 

But that man had to be tested "in all things" - AS A HUMAN.

 

I agree with Joe, that Christ COULD have sinned,

because He took the nature of Abraham, and left His divine powers behind when He incarnated. 

 

Respectfully

Rachel Cory

Prophecy Viewpoint

[8thdaypriest]

Here is the text of the "new covenant" .

 

Hebrews 8:10  "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel After those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their minds, And I will write them upon their hearts. And I will be their God, And they shall be My people. 11 a"And they shall not teach everyone his fellow citizen, And everyone his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' For all shall know Me, From the least to the greatest of them. 12 "For I will be merciful to their iniquities, And I will remember their sins no more." (NAS)

 

I looks from this that we are promised the ability to keep His law, and we are promised that He will blot out all record of our past sins. 

 

Looks like both.

 

Saved from sinning any longer  AND saved from the penalty for past sins.

 

Where I think folks get confused is the context.

In the context of Jeremiah 31 and Ezekiel 36:24-27, this covenant is NOT FULLY REALIZED until Israel redeemed is returned to "your own land".

 

We just get a taste of it here. 

 

"For I will take you from among the nations, gather you out of all countries, and bring you into your own land.  THEN . . . . . ".  (Ezekiel 36:24)

 

Years ago I remember becoming very frustrated with the LORD, because it seemed that He was not fulfilling His promise - that He would put His spirit in me and cause me to walk in His statutes.  I thought there was supposed to be this miraculous change in me, and I would stop transgressing in even the very smallest things.  Didn't happen. 

 

Then a friend showed me Ezekiel 36:24.  Oh my - I thought.  I have to struggle against sinning for the rest of my life here. 

Yup. 

So I won't be "perfect" before Jesus returns?

Nope.

But He will forgive me.

Yes.

[LifeHiscost]

I don't believe it explicitly stated He came to save us from sin itself.

By "sin itself" do you mean a life of perfect obedience to the law of God in word, deed and thought?

20But when he had considered this, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, "Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife; for the Child who has been conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. 21"She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins." Matt 1

 

God is Love! Jesus saves!

[Samie]

I don't believe it explicitly stated He came to save us from sin itself.

By "sin itself" do you mean a life of perfect obedience to the law of God in word, deed and thought?

 

To be saved from sin itself, does not mean "a life of perfect obedience to the law of God in word, deed and thought".

 

Sin has the power to separate us from God.  So, to be saved from sin, simply means sin cannot separate us from God anymore.

 

Sin has the power to makes us its slaves. So, to be saved from sin, means sin cannot have dominion over us anymore.

 

Sin has the power to make us spiritually dead. So, to be saved from sin, means sin cannot make us spiritually dead anymore.

 

In other words, to be saved from the KILLER, simply means the KILLER cannot KILL us anymore.

 

Having been saved from sin, God has EMPOWERED us with the capability to overcome evil with good, yet we remain FREE moral agents capable of choosing between good and evil.

[Robert]

To be saved from sin itself, does not mean "a life of perfect obedience to the law of God in word, deed and thought".

Okay, good clarification....

 

In other words, to be saved from the KILLER, simply means the KILLER cannot KILL us anymore.

Yes, sin is destructive and it brings death...the first death. But Jesus didn't come to save us from our first death. He came to save us from our 2nd death.

Gal 4:4 But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law, 5 to redeem those under law, that we might receive the full rights of sons.

Why would we need to be delivered from under law?

Rom 2:12 "As many as have sinned under the law shall be judged by the law...."

What does the law demand to be just before it?

Verse 13 "for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified."

In other words to be under law means you are ruled by the law. The law demands perfection in word, deed and thought. Since all have sinned and continue to fall short of living Christ's life, which answered/answers the law, Christ came to deliver us from under the law because it condemns us to the 2nd death.

Proof: Gal 3:10... Cursed is every one who continueth not in all things that are written in the book of the law, to do them. ....3 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us....

[LifeHiscost]

Woody said...I ain't seen no Christians saved from committing sins.

 

If you had known me when I was in the Marines some 60 years ago as compared to now I'm sure your conception of deliverance might be somewhat different.

 

God is Love! Jesus saves!

 

[Woody]

Praise God for that LHC. However .... I doubt my view would change. What I was referring to was being TOTALLY saved from sinning. And I doubt you are in that category . 

[Aliensanctuary]

Years ago I was asked that very question---"Are you saved?" by some Christian classmates. "Saved from what?" I responded.

 

Today I believe that being "saved" refers to our being saved from final destruction. It's our transgressions against our Creator, our fellow humans, and against ourselves that condemn us and render us unfit for membership in the Kingdom of YHVH because we are contaminated with evil. Once the Kingdom is clearly explained to us, it's our repentance and contrition, the mark of YHVH on our foreheads, our willingness to die for our loyalty to YHVH, and lastly, our submission to the wash-up in the River of Life that will save us from being counted among Satan's followers and destroyed by perpetual fire.

 

Some denominations seem to brainwash some of their members who are then quite skillful at spewing out streams of religious jargon such as "are you saved?" and "the blood of Jesus" among a few.

[Woody]

My belief is that it has little to do with the 'ours' you listed and more of the 'His'. My part is very small.

I am saved . But I am saved by HIS blood. Those may seem like jargon to you. But they are powerful to me.

[Robert]

Today I believe that being "saved" refers to our being saved from final destruction.

Yes, but in order to be saved something has to condemn us.  What condemns sin?  Is it no the law?  Paul calls this condemnation "the curse of the law"!  

[LifeHiscost]

 

 Once the Kingdom is clearly explained to us, it's our repentance and contrition, the mark of YHVH on our foreheads, our willingness to die for our loyalty to YHVH, and lastly, our submission to the wash-up in the River of Life that will save us from being counted among Satan's followers and destroyed by perpetual fire.

Sounds very much like it is "our" works that takes the weight for most of the end results of salvation. These thoughts below tell me that the only attribute we each have that contributes anything to our salvation is what we submit to our Father in Heaven.

 

31"He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. Acts 5

 

For apart from me you can do nothing. ... John 15

 

…11And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.  1 John 5

 

16Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren. 17Every good thing given and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shifting shadow. 18In the exercise of His will He brought us forth by the word of truth, so that we would be a kind of first fruits among His creatures. James 1

 

Perhaps when we recognize ourselves as children of the King, a result of being born again, we will understand that the apple never falls far from the tree. That can be recognized by this Word.

 

...the devil..... He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies. John 8

 

God is Love! Jesus saves!