What is the Gospel?

[Nicodema]

Seriously. What, really, is the "good news"? OK, it has something to do with Jesus, maybe with His death on the cross, but what is it?

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

Hi Nico, I guess we could look at the bad news first and that would help us see the good news.

The bad news is that when Adam sinned he gave us all away to die the 2nd death and he lost the Holy Spirit which left Him no longer able to understand God and God's love. Ever since that day we have been all born in the same way, lost and without hope. The wholeness and holiness that Adam was created with was lost and that is our lot.

What God did was to send His Son to take upon Himself our nature and reunite in man that which was lost in the beginning. So Jesus became the first born from the dead and the firstborn among many brethren. He was born as Adam was created only with Adam's fallen nature. So the connection that Adam had before the fall is now regained in Christ, the 2nd or last Adam.

That alone is great news but it does nothing for us in that we remain in the same state and have no ability to change. The good news is that when Christ died He took upon Him our sins which gave us reconciliation with God. In Christ all sins have been paid for. That is good news too, but it's not enough becuase that still leaves us in the same condition not having the aility to change.

The good news now comes in the form of a promise. The promise of the Holy Spirit. That which Adam lost and we were born without we now can receive. Now that is great news too because with the Holy Spirit we can be like Christ in that we can love as He loves because it is no longer us that does the loving but Christ in us. We also have the ability to fight the flesh and gain victories over it and Satan. (I'm not talking about being perfect here but having selflessness be the motivation rather than selfishness)

Now the good news continues, Those who receive the Holy Spirit are being made ready for Christ's return. We also share in this in that we can now go and share this good news with others who are longing for peace in their lives. He is coming to get us who believe the love of the Father and love Him and His Son.

More good news, we will be given immortality and never die nor suffer, nor cry, nor remember any of the hell that is here now. We will have new bodies and we will have the priviledge of sharing with the universe what it was like living in these bodies in this world while having God as our guide, comforter and are all in all.

There you have it, although I didn't use any Bible text. It's late and I wanted to get you an answer ASAP. The greatest news of all though is that all that is for me!!!! Repeat those words and believe them, they are true.

Norman

[Gregory Matthews]

The good news for you is: Nico, God has the eternal answer for the results of sin that affect your (Nico's) life everyday, and a reality in which you (Nico) will live eternally free from those effects, in a richness of life, the fullness of which you cannot imagine, and that is given to you freely without your merit simply because you (Nico) are God's creation, and God has done all that is needed to give you that gift.

[Gerr]

The gospel is about Jesus, Mk 1:1.

The gospel is also about God, Rom 1:1.

Soooo, everything about Jesus & God is Good News.

Gerry

[Nicodema]

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Norman said:

There you have it, although I didn't use any Bible text. It's late and I wanted to get you an answer ASAP. The greatest news of all though is that all that is for me!!!! Repeat those words and believe them, they are true.

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I'm sure your theology is fine and all that, and I'm sure your heart is in the right place. But right now I just can't really seem to extract what I need from theology and general statements encompassing the whole world. I need something that will reach to the inside of ME. Something personal that's for ME -- not just me as "one more insignificant little creature in the midst of twenty billion others for whom the same size is intended to fit all."

I suppose it's my fault for titling this thread with such a "general" sounding question though.

[Naomi]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

Nicodema said:

Something personal that's for ME -- not just me as "one more insignificant little creature in the midst of twenty billion others for whom the same size is intended to fit all." <img src="/ubbtreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I suppose it's my fault for titling this thread with such a "general" sounding question though.

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Nico,

BTY, welcome back to C/A, hope you enjoyed a nice rest.

I am sure we have a lot of people here who can and will give you much deeper and more relavent information. However, FWIW: Yes, it is a message, gift, or promise to every man, woman and child who ever lived on this planet. That part is a "one size fits all" gospel message.

OTOH, not even one of us should ever think of ourselves as insignificant to our Lord.

He would have came, lived, suffered, and died if you were the only person here.

We are told that he even knows the number of hairs in our head. He (God) knows the end from the beginning. One time A child who was in my class drew a picture and wrote a little prayer to go with his picture. Even today, one line (not original statement) stands out in my mind "You loved me in my mother's belly" This makes it very personal.

Our personal relationship with Jesus is a one-on-one and sometimes comes slowly and without major events. There are as many accounts about how it happens as there are people. it is real and you are not just a number.

Ok, I used a lot of words and probably didn't make any sense.

Courage,

Naomi

[Clio]

Nico,

If I don't get back to this topic by Monday, please remind me. PM me, email me, or something. I keep forgetting I want to post here, until I get to work, and my notes are at home.

It is personal, it is good news, and no one has really touched on it yet.

Clio

[Clio]

In order to understand the answer to "What is the Gospel of Good News", I'm going to have to lay some groundwork.

I'm going to try and condense in a single post, from a variety of sources, what the concept of Blood Covenant meant to the peoples of the ancient world.

From there, I will lay out the Biblical teachings concerning the uses and symbolism of blood.

Among the peoples of the ancient world, blood:

1. represents life.

2. the giving of blood represents the giving of life.

3. the intermingling of blood represents the intermingling of natures.

4. the divine-human inter-union through blood is the basis of a divine human inter communion in the sharing of the flesh of the sacrificial offering as sacred food.

During the time when the Pentateuch was supposed to have been written, there were certain well defined views concerning the sacredness of blood, and well defined methods , the involvings, and symbolisms of the covenant of blood.

We cannot look at the Bible record as it stands for the original institution of every rite connected with blood shedding, but we may fairly look at every Bible reference to blood in the light of the understanding known to prevail in the days of the Bible writing.

Starting in Genesis 4:2-5.

Now Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground. 3 And in the process of time it came to pass that Cain brought an offering of the fruit of the ground to the Lord. 4 Abel also brought of the firstborn of his flock and of their fat. And the Lord respected Abel and his offering, 5 but He did not respect Cain and his offering.

In light of all that is known about the matter of blood covenant, it is clear this narrative shows Abel, lovingly reaching out toward Abba with substitute blood, in order to be in covenant oneness with Abba. Cain, on the other hand merely offers a gift from his earthly possessions. Abel so trusts Abba, that he gives himself. Cain defers sufficiently to the Most High that he makes a present to him.

One shows unbounded faith, the other affectionate reverence.

Hebrews 11:4 seems to confirm this. {i]By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

Then followed the unhallowed shedding of Abel's blood. Abel's blood cried out as it were, to the Divine Author of life.

Genesis 4:10,11 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground. And now [art] thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;

Here we see the blood is pre-eminently the life, and even when poured out on the earth the blood does not lose its vitality. It still still has intelligent relations with it's Author and Guardian.

After the Flood, when Abba began the world anew, through the vestige of blood, of life, preserved in the ark, He laid new emphasis on the sacredness of blood as teh representative of that life which is the essence of Abba Himself.

Noah's first act on coming out of the ark was to proffer himself and all living flesh in a fresh blood-covenant with the Lord. Genesis 8:20.

From all that is known of the method burnt offerings from the Bible-text or outside sources, it has from the beginning included the preliminary offering of the blood - the life - to Deity, by it's outpouring around or on the altar or by sprinkling it on the altar.

It was then that the Lord smelled the sweet savour of the proffered offering, and Abba established a new covenant with Noah, giving commandment anew regarding the never-failing sacredness of blood.

Genesis 9:3-6 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things. "Only you shall not eat flesh with its life, {that is,} its blood. Surely I will require your lifeblood; from every beast I will require it. And from {every} man, from every man's brother I will require the life of man. Whoever sheds man's blood, By man his blood shall be shed, For in the image of God He made man. "As for you, be fruitful and multiply; Populate the earth abundantly and multiply in it." Then God spoke to Noah and to his sons with him, saying, "Now behold, I Myself do establish My covenant with you, and with your descendants after you;

This commandment does not appear to have been rescinded or abrogated in letter or in spirit. However unknown or poorly understood by Christians, it stands today as it stood in the days of Paul, and the days of Noah. A perpetual obligation, with all its manifold teachings of the blessed benefits of the covenant of blood.

The prohibition against eating the blood, and thus the life, of an animal is seen when James announces the decision of the conference regarding the gentile churches... "Write unto them, that they abstain from the pollutions of idols, and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood." Acts 15:2-29, 21:18-25

Ok... nuff about the blood. If you want more discussion on this in the OT and NT get H. Clay Trumball's book Blood Covenant.

Let's go on to how this is good news.

That's going to be another post. I'm out of time for now.

Clio

[Nicodema]

I appreciate your time and efforts Clio, but that blood stuff strikes me as essentially irrelevant to my concerns (i.e., I don't feel any of that has anything to do with me or where I am right now). I am interested in how you make it tie in with good news, though, and will read with an open mind. Perhaps I'm just not seeing the big picture here yet.

[Clio]

I'll get there Nico... But the above is necessary background to the understanding of what was really done at the cross.

Unfortunately, I'm dealing with a huge marital and spiritual crisis in my home at the moment, and my time online is severely limited. I shouldn't even be on right now, but wanted to ask for prayer for my husband.

I'm very concerned this might be final, irrevocable, valley-of-decision time... and some well-meaning churchianity folk set his walk back about two years this week... and then I put my foot in it, not knowing what had transpired, and made it worse.

I'm clinging to Jesus big time right now and holding hubby in constant prayer. I've been fasting for two full days as well, on my face in front of the throne.... and I'd like my head clear to write the rest.

Don't let me forget though. It's important.

Clio

[Robert]

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Norman said:

What God did was to send His Son to take upon Himself our nature and reunite in man that which was lost in the beginning.

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Actually Christ set aside the independent use of His divinity (which is sinless & immortal) and became what He was not by divine right - human! Since we all share one human life - the fallen life of Adam - Christ, by assuming our corporate life, rewrote our history and took our glorified humanity to heaven. We receive this new, sinless life resurrection morning! So Christ assumed more than just our human nature....He assumed our humanity that needed redeeming.

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That alone is great news but it does nothing for us in that we remain in the same state and have no ability to change.

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Wrong! Romans 5:18 "So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men."

You were born because of what the Godhead formulated before the foundation of the world was laid! In other words Christ's doing and dying allowed you to have life....Not eternal life, but the life we have by birth. The cross did this....That's good news because without life we could never choose eternal life!

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In Christ all sins have been paid for. That is good news too, but it's not enough because that still leaves us in the same condition not having the ability to change.

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You’re hung up on performance [i.e., change]! You are forgetting that "in Christ" we already have a sinless, glorified life by faith. That's good news....

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because with the Holy Spirit we can be like Christ in that we can love as He loves because it is no longer us that does the loving but Christ in us.

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Nope...that's good advice, not good news because you are perverting the gospel by adding works! The trouble is that the Holy Spirit can only work in us as we allow him. So it involves a human element! That's bad news....

Yes...it is good that we grow in grace, but it's bad if you call this the gospel! The gospel is what Christ did in our humanity some 2000 years ago AND NOTHING ELSE! If you add anything to that equation you are perverting the gospel and go from good news to good advice!

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Those who receive the Holy Spirit are being made ready for Christ's return.

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By faith I am already "ready" because of my position "in Christ"! That's good news. What you are giving above is bad news....You are telling believers that unless they achieve a certain level of change that they are not ready! Wrong!....Very bad new because you have added the human element....

You see I won't be perfect when Christ returns....But in the twinkling of eye I WILL BE CHANGED! Then I will be perfect....That's good news because now I have received my new, glorified humanity that Christ took to heaven some 2000 years ago....

[Robert]

Nico...let me take a stab at your concerns. I'll try to keep it simple!

1] You were born with a condemn life [no fault of your own].

That's because the life you inherited, if traced all the way back, comes from father Adam. You share his life after the fall...in fact all of us, black/white/yellow, share this common life. I refer to it as our corporate life.

2] Christ as God assumed our corporate life that needed redeeming and hence became "the son of Man"! Before the incarnation He was the Son of God, but after He was both the Son of God and the Son of man.

3] Since Christ as mankind fully identified Himself with our fallen human life, He lawfully rewrote our history in Himself.

4] Lawfully means in accordance with the law! Since the law demands a perfectly righteous life (performance wise) Christ had to live a life of perfect, unblemished obedience in our corporate humanity. Since this humanity belongs to you, your life was made obedient to the law "in Christ Jesus." Hence you, by faith, can say "I lived a perfect life in Christ."

5] The law also demands death to the sinner. This too was answered when Christ, as man, died the 2nd death. Where were you? "In Him"....Therefore as far as the law is concerned, you are dead, killed by the law itself! The law can't condemn dead people...can it? So the law is satisfied.

6] However the law also demands "holy flesh"....That means the very fact you have a sinful nature makes you unfit for heaven. Did Christ, through the gospel, take care of this problem? yes!

7] Sunday morning God resurrected a glorified humanity [free from indwelling sin] and took that humanity to heaven "in Christ Jesus"!

So "in Christ" [the gospel] you have met all the requirements of the law:

a] You lived a perfect life

b] You died the 2nd death [the curse of the law death]

c] You were raised with a glorified humanity and taken to heaven in Christ Jesus.

All this you have "in Christ Jesus" by faith!!!! That's the good news.....

Christian living is good news if it means through Christ's strength I can overcome besetting sins and addictions....But it is bad news if I'm looking to these victories to be saved. Why? Because I am already saved "in Christ"...I can only experience what is already true of me "in Him"!

You see if I look to my performance for my ticket to heaven that becomes good advice! Why? Because I will never be good enough for heaven in this life....Only "in Christ" is there good news....

Keep the faith,

Rob

[Raphael]

Nico,

God is Love and loves you especially. Unfortunately there is another side on what you can believe in that is God is not Love and ofcourse doen't love you or anyone or anything apart from Himself, maybe. But the more difficult part is understanding, feeling, sensing, being aware, being consciouse, knowing this Love, the effects of this Love and so on. I heard someone saying that unloved children will have troubled relations with God. Meaning heavenly things may start down here, right here on earth.

Try reading the steps to Christs .. there is a passage over there saying that people genuinely searching for God (God's blessing, guidance etc) attend prayer meetings. Meaning asking a congregation to pray for you among others. Do that, and discover later. And don't do it for a season only.

God is Love,

Raphael

[Nicodema]

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Clio said:

Unfortunately, I'm dealing with a huge marital and spiritual crisis in my home at the moment, and my time online is severely limited. I shouldn't even be on right now, but wanted to ask for prayer for my husband.

I'm very concerned this might be final, irrevocable, valley-of-decision time... and some well-meaning churchianity folk set his walk back about two years this week... and then I put my foot in it, not knowing what had transpired, and made it worse.

I'm clinging to Jesus big time right now and holding hubby in constant prayer. I've been fasting for two full days as well, on my face in front of the throne.... and I'd like my head clear to write the rest.

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By all means! I'm sorry to hear about the difficulties you are facing. I pray everything works out for the best. Meanwhile by all means, save your energies for healing your home and hearth. *hug*

[Nicodema]

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raphael said:

Try reading the steps to Christs .. there is a passage over there saying that people genuinely searching for God (God's blessing, guidance etc) attend prayer meetings. Meaning asking a congregation to pray for you among others. Do that, and discover later. And don't do it for a season only.

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Oh Raphael ... it must be wonderful there in Indonesia. You probably have genuine community there. When you go to church it is like a family reunion every week. You are involved in each other's lives and bring blessings to one another, you are knit together as members of one body. I live in America near the nation's capital. Things are very different here. The smaller churches have cliques set in stone and the larger ones, you're just another face in the masses. They don't even HAVE prayer meetings here.

Thanks anyway. Merry Christmas to you and yours!

Nico

[Clio]

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Nicodema said:

I appreciate your time and efforts Clio, but that blood stuff strikes me as essentially irrelevant to my concerns (i.e., I don't feel any of that has anything to do with me or where I am right now). I am interested in how you make it tie in with good news, though, and will read with an open mind. Perhaps I'm just not seeing the big picture here yet.

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Ok Nico... I'm back. I got a few hours of sleep after we got back from the Emergency Room this morning... so I'm going to start on why all this Blood Covenant stuff is a good thing.

When Jesus came to this earth, He came to live the life Adam did not, and after doing so, to seal for all time with His Blood, a covenant that for 5000 years had been sealed in proxy blood, and by doing so, eliminate the need for proxy blood forever.

From a study of Blood Covenant, throughout the ancient world, including the Jews, the Arabs, Palestinians, Persians, as well as Oceania, the America's and Europe, Blood Covenant establishes some things. I can prove these, but it would take too long, if someone needs the proof, get the book I've mentioned and sit down with it and your Bible and do the reading.

In the times and places of the writings of the Bible when Abba instituted Blood Covenant it was understood clearly in the Oriental mind and frame of reference.

Blood Covenant was entered in to only with someone you loved more than your own life. Because at the moment you entered into the covenant, you surrendered your life to that person, to be called upon in the future no matter the need, no matter what was already happening in your life. The Blood Covenant came first.

Those in Blood Covenant were deemed more closely related than genetic siblings, more closely than marriage. The parents of either partner in the blood covenant considered the other partner their child, and inheritances were altered accordingly.

It was not death that was significant. It was the shedding of blood, especially combined blood.

Wine, especially, became a symbol for the blood of a blood covenant, because often a little of the blood of each partner in the covenant would be mixed with the wine and both would then drink of it.

Sooooo... what does all this have to do with Jesus and Calvary.

Abba Father speaks repeatedly throughout the Old AND New Testaments of the covenants He established with Abraham, with the Jews, and with us. The covenants with Abraham, and with us, are actually the same one, except Abraham's was sealed with proxy blood from a ram and Abraham's own foreskin.

The significance of the foreskin is that the proxy blood came not just from Abraham, signifying the covenant with him, but from the location of the very source of life for all Abraham's succeeding generations.

From Abba's perspective, when we enter in to the Blood Covenant with Jesus, by accepting His act on Calvary, we literally become as important to the Most High as Jesus Himself. We are as much Abba's Child as Jesus. It's in the Blood.

We are as one, with Jesus, because of the Blood. That means that whenever we ask, Abba CANNOT fail to help us, because to deny us the help we ask for would violate the Blood Covenant sealed in the very Blood of Jesus. He would be denying His OWN Holy Nature and would thus be guilty of all Satan's claims.

When we accept the Blood Covenant, and surrender ourselves as did Jesus, we are deemed to have His nature, immediately and our past sins vanish *snap* into the sea of forgetfulness. And because it's also a literal thing, when we honor the Blood Covenant, realizing that a violated Blood Covenant brings death as punishment, but an upheld covenant means life, through the Blood, we actually do change.

We DO actually take on the nature of Jesus. One nature, two bodies. Another facet of Blood Covenants.

We know this to be literal and true, because Paul talks about it constantly.

Dying to sin. Taking on the nature of Jesus. Our mind becoming like the mind of Jesus.

When Jesus came, and spilled His Blood, at that moment, we were covenanted with the Most High. In order that Mercy be granted, Jesus took upon Himself the death we deserve every time we, in our sinfulness, or ignorance, violate the Blood Covenant.

Thus, since we are just as much Him, as He is us, when the Law calls for death, Jesus, with total spiritual authority and legality, that even the Adversary cannot deny, says... "No. By the Blood Covenant we are One. The price is paid". And the Most High looks upon the shed Blood of His Beloved Son, and says, "Yes, the price is paid." And grants mercy.

It is for this reason that Paul says ALL DIED in Christ Jesus. Because by the very nature of the Blood Covenant, WE DID.

We REALLY ARE joint heirs with Jesus in a literal sense, because the Blood Covenant alters lines of inheritance. And those entering in to a Blood Covenant knew it in advance. They knew, before entering into the covenant, that future generations inheritances would be changed based on the Covenant.

Jesus knew that too. But His love was so great, and the Father's love and desire to bring us back to Himself was so great, that the price paid was not important. Only the fact of the sinless life, and a Blood Covenant sealed with Jesus Blood, was important.

Because the LIFE is in the BLOOD. There truly is POWER in the Blood of Jesus. The POWER to literally confer life, to literally confer sonship, or daughtership, to the Most High, on a puny human.

Because of the sacredness of the a blood covenant, there are stories in history, of generals withdrawing armies in the midst of battle, greatly to their detriment, because the needs and requirements of the blood covenant came first. Everything each party to the covenant had, became the other's simply for the asking, including children. Homes, families, property, everything in the storehouses, weaponry, armor, but never wives... it would have been deemed incest.

That is why we have the right, and the authority, to receive anything we need from Abba's storehouses, anytime we ask under the Blood Covenant. That is why He cares for us, providing clothing, food, solace, rescue, anything we need. Because the Most High will do no less for us than He did for Jesus.

In fact, BECAUSE of Jesus life here on earth, the voluntarily surrendered blood and life, the Most High can do MORE for us than He could for Jesus.

By beholding Jesus, by living the Blood Covenant with an understanding of what it really means, we truly do take on Jesus' nature. It will not ever be complete until He returns, but we ARE changed. We DO share one nature, and one Parent, with Jesus Christ. As literally as we share earthly parents with siblings.

Those are the blessings of the Blood Covenant.

Violation of the Blood Covenant has only one punishment. DEATH.

As long as we push in to Jesus, claiming the covering of His Righteousness, we are deemed to have His Nature, and to have never violated the Covenant, just as He never did or has. Thus, the Most High can be both Merciful and Just, without compromise or paradox.

That's why repentance, and the actual asking of forgiveness is so important. It shows that we, in our hearts, do acknowledge and live by the Covenant established on Calvary. It's why if we die with a few unconfessed sins in a sudden accident, Jesus will stand for us, and say, "Father, this one is Mine. By Blood Covenant." And the Most High will say, "Yes, the price is paid."

There is no sting in death. The Most High will do no less for us than He did for Jesus. We WILL be resurrected, and taken HOME.

THAT is the Good News.

The Communion Service is the renewal of the Blood Covenant.

Jesus says of the Wine, "Take, Drink. This is My Blood, shed for you." Throughout the Oriental world of the Middle East, for 5000 years before His arrival, it was common to seal a Blood Covenant, by mixing the Blood of the partners in the covenant in wine, and then each drinking of it.

Jesus says of the Bread, "Take, Eat. This is My Body, broken for you."

Another way of sealing a Blood Covenant was to offer a proxy sacrifice, and all parties to the covenant would eat of it's flesh. Especially if there were many parties to the covenant... such as whole tribes.

I'm still early in my study of the Blood Covenant, and this is just the scratching of the surface. I hope I've been clear, Nico. Because I'm still learning, and coming to grips with the awesome implications of what I'm learning.

And having written what I can, I ask that Abba Bless this and impart understanding where my words may have failed.

I need a few more hours sleep... Have a blessed Sabbath.

Clio

[Raphael]

Hi Nico & everyone,

I have never seen prayer meetings where prayer requests where listed and prayed upon on any Sabbath church ceremony occasion. I observed it happenning on Wednesday night midweek meetings only. I appreciated what was going and I mentioned and requested and proposed to other sda spiritual gatherings instances aside that midweek thing to instead of just have the usual closing prayer but instead, ask seriously if there were any prayer requests. Many prayer requests were on health only, but it doesn't matter what matters is recognizing and appreciating the power of it. Soo try proposing or mentioning or requesting to the church pastor and or people to have it done. It's much easier if the church pastor leads, he's suppose to be the trend setter but any one can assist ofcourse..

You can read my postings on live communications with God and communicate further with me.

Currently I'm in nowhere land, in disaster stricken zones with only handful of other sdas, but it helps because we are small in number and naturally more familiar with each other, but it was only last Sabbath that i got my prayer gatherings intentions done. But it was worth it, a million fold perhaps. I had to be precise in timing, exactly at the moment when they wanted to start the closing prayer than I intervened .. At the other Sabbaths I recalled myself to be always too late in intervening, poor or bad reflexes. But I was usually exhausted from doing things beyond my duty. These are just experiences of mine, how things should have been done could be easily be done better by somebady else.

And ofcourse Merry Christmas & Happy New Year 2006 to you Nico & every one else.

God is Love,

Raphael

[Gerr]

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Yes...it is good that we grow in grace, but it's bad if you call this the gospel! The gospel is what Christ did in our humanity some 2000 years ago AND NOTHING ELSE! If you add anything to that equation you are perverting the gospel and go from good news to good advice!

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[:"blue"]Is it not Good News that Jesus is coming again [future, not something that happened 2000 yrs ago}?

Is it not Good News that unsaved sinners are not made to suffer throughout eternity?

Is it not Good News that through the indwelling Christ and Holy Spirit sinners are empowered to obey so that they don't have to keep on sinning over and over again? [/]

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By faith I am already "ready" because of my position "in Christ"! That's good news. What you are giving above is bad news....You are telling believers that unless they achieve a certain level of change that they are not ready! Wrong!....Very bad new because you have added the human element....

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[:"blue"] I don't think that's what Norman is saying, that the believer has to achieve a certain level in order to be saved. Believers achieve because they are saved. It is terrible news to teach that believers just fornicate less, steal less, murder less, covet less, and worship idols less.

It IS Good News, indeed Great News if the sinner enslaved by sin is set free from the dominion of sin.[/]

Gerry

[Nicodema]

Guys please don't carry on this debate here. You are already having it in other threads and that's fine -- I just don't want this to become a repeat thread of the same debate. I really started this thread because I just wanted to hear THE GOOD NEWS, free from debate and free from being tainted by constant condemnation from the law. What I want in this thread is discussion purely about how lovely Jesus is, how great and limitless is His love, and how free and open and complete and available is His forgiveness. I don't want to hear about how I then better "live up to it" or else I'll lose that forgiveness. I don't want ANY burdens put on me here at all -- I can go to a zillion other threads on this board to get that there. Nor do I want a rehash of debates being held elsewhere. Just post good news only please, don't argue about it with others. Thanks.

[Clio]

A continuation of the Good News.

When Jesus ascended to heaven, taking with Him, in Himself His Blood, and stood before the Father, the greatest Love ever, was victorious.

Remember, Jesus said after His resurrection, "Don't touch Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father." Yet shortly after, He encouraged the disciples to touch Him, to know Him for reality, and not for a spook. So He checked in with Abba and something very important happened. I think He presented the spilled, shed Blood before the Throne.

Jesus loved you, specifically, so much that He voluntarily agreed to spill His Blood to bring you into the only relationship where you could be redeemed NO MATTER HOW MUCH TROUBLE YOU GOT YOURSELF INTO. He offered Blood Covenant with the Creator of the Universe.

And the Father loved you so much, that He agreed that this way was the way, even though it cost the life of His Beloved Son. And more. The price paid to redeem you, specifically Nico, was the highest ever paid, but the Love that prompted it is even greater. And it's specific to YOU, Nico, just as it's specific to me, to my husband, to anyone who's ever lived, or ever will live.

Blood Covenant is PERSONAL in every detail. Abba and Jesus delight in the details of our lives. They are attendant, and care-full to delight us, and to give us joy even in the little things. Once, on a long journey, that was discouraging, and scary, we asked for Corn Chowder for lunch. Every single place we stopped the rest of the day, had corn chowder. We passed it up at the first place, because we didn't have the time to go in and eat soup, but the place we stopped for the night also had it... It was a little thing, a detail, but at the time, was an answer to prayer so obvious as to be unmistakeable.

Nico, it's not Jesus death that was important, it was the shedding of His Blood. His death, in taking the punishment for us, was secondary. His death is acceptable, only because He first shed His Blood, making His death acceptable for us. Without being bound in Blood Covenant FIRST and all that means, His Death would not have been in our stead.

It is the shed Blood, and the Father accepting the Blood Covenant which is written there-in, through Love, that gives meaning to the Death of the King of Kings and the Commander of the Heavenly Hosts.

He loves YOU that much Nico. He loves ME and each person who has ever lived, lives, or will ever live, that much.

The Blood Covenant would still stand even if only ONE entered in to it with Him.

Clio

[Gerr]

I said nothing about condemnation, Nico. If it is not good news that Jesus is coming again, if it is not good news that lost sinners do not have to suffer forever and ever, if it is not good news that slaves are delivered from sin, then I apologize for posting on this thread.

Gerry

[Clio]

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Nicodema said:

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Clio said:

Unfortunately, I'm dealing with a huge marital and spiritual crisis in my home at the moment, and my time online is severely limited. I shouldn't even be on right now, but wanted to ask for prayer for my husband.

I'm very concerned this might be final, irrevocable, valley-of-decision time... and some well-meaning churchianity folk set his walk back about two years this week... and then I put my foot in it, not knowing what had transpired, and made it worse.

I'm clinging to Jesus big time right now and holding hubby in constant prayer. I've been fasting for two full days as well, on my face in front of the throne.... and I'd like my head clear to write the rest.

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By all means! I'm sorry to hear about the difficulties you are facing. I pray everything works out for the best. Meanwhile by all means, save your energies for healing your home and hearth. *hug*

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Just saw this... we must have been typing at the same time.

Jesus is AWESOME Nico. Hubby is doing better, and I can see improvement even overnight again last night. I put in my prayer thread that he felt well enough to frost three cut-out cookies last night. It's a small thing, but the blessing is HUGE. We could have been in ICU 350 miles away.

It's clear his decision is also made, and the spiritual battle, as well as the physical appears to be in abeyance for the time being.

Thank you for the hug and prayers.

Clio

[Nicodema]

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Gerry Cabalo said:

I said nothing about condemnation, Nico.

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I didn't say you did. I was just listing in general what I wanted and didn't want on this thread. I appreciate the comments you have made that have been helpful. I just don't want to see old debates rehashed here when there are already threads for those. That doesn't mean those debates aren't important or useful, just that they can go on over there instead of here. OK?

[Gus Foster]

For me, I love to use Scripture to interpret words and meanings, and the definition of the gospel is no exception. In Rom 1:16,17, Paul states that the gospel is not to be ashamed of; that it is the power of God to everyone who believes, aand that it is a righteousness revealed from God, and is present in the believers through faith. So, it is not only a definition of Jesus' life, death, resurrection and present ministry and what He does for us every day; as we can read in John 17, and in almost every New Testament book, but how He can change our minds in a spiritual sense; thus creating life in us, one that opposes the natural man (1 Cor 2:14). And when we further examine the word 'gospel' in the Bible, we also see that this 'living gospel' teaches us true worship (Rev 14:6ff) and how to approach and address our God, with fear and giving Him all glory. And finally, the presence of the gospel for us, in us and through us, teaches us to 'come out of Bablyon', which in essence is to come out of 'self'.

And finally for me, the gospel is Jesus' life that He shares with me, and allows me to be with Him every minute, and to have the confidence that the origin of the gospel is in complete control, having victory over all sin, which he gleefully shares with me.

[Morning Glory]

Clio,

Thank you so much for taking the time to write this all down. I never did understand Blood Covenant; now I think that perhaps I am beginning to thanks to your posts in this thread. Awesome, Powerful, suddenly a lot of things make sense that I had only accepted by faith before. I am going to get that book and do some study of my own.

It will take a while for it to all soak in.......I feel very small and unworthy at this moment. Now I understand the statement that He would have come for only one. This is way BETTER news than I could even imagine!!

Morning Glory