What is the Gospel?

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

Hi Nico,

I hope you had a great Christmas a New Year’s Day. I wasn't able to respond to your reply.

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I need something that will reach to the inside of ME. Something personal that's for ME --

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I understand your desire. I had that desire and found my answer in God answering my prayers. I have shared with you in the past how the Lord has worked in my life and it started when I prayed.

I studied Rev 3, the message to the Laodiceans and saw that the description there was talking about me. I was like that and I could not change. The warning that Jesus spoke to my heart was that if I didn't change then He'd vomit me out of His mouth. I can really only suggest the things that have truly worked for me. So I suggest that you try reading that and apply it to yourself. The best way to get the personal results you want is to not make any excuses for yourself but realize and accept the fact of your personal condition. Let it hurt, dwell on the possibility of being lost and realize that it is a possibility for you to be lost. Doubt may be the reason; it does not have to be a major sin.

At that point, with all your heart mind and soul plead with God to help you. Once you have done this, it is imperative that you believe that God has answered your prayer. So praise Him out loud in the joy of the Lord! Then trust Him to do what He has promised. He will make you a new creature and you can have victory over doubt.

This has worked for me and I know it can work for you. What you are truly looking for is assurance. You know the truth but somewhere in the chambers of your mind you doubt that it applies to you. The answer for me was to just claim it for myself. No works, no law keeping, nothing I had done could disqualify me for it: it was mine and God loves me that I know for sure. Then I began to see the changes that wanted. I wanted to be solid in faith and it happened. All that I desired and was not able to experience before this I now experienced. I was willing to give up anything for this experience and God honored that.

Before this happened to me I had been out of the fellowship of believers for about 10 years. In the 8th year I had become so depressed that I wanted to take my own life. I tried 3 times and ended up in the hospital twice. When I decided that I wanted to changed and since I was willing to die for selfishness, now I was willing to give everything for God and I did. I surrendered my life because I saw where my own desires and will had just taken me.

The change in my life was not a theory, (as I 1st posted above) it was a reality that has guided me till this day. I cannot deny the victory that I had and still have in my life. I cannot deny the miracles that took place in my life and continue to take place.

That kind of life brings great joy because I knew and know that my name is written in heaven. This is the desire of Abba for us all.

What have I learned from all this? The joy and victory that you have in your life is proportionate to the surrender to God that you give. Life is not about getting better but how much do I want to surrender to God and let Him lead me with His Holy Spirit. Now, if I choose to let the Holy Spirit guide me in all things, what do I have to worry about? What do I have to fear? World, you don't frighten me, for God is in this temple and where He will take me and what He will do, nothing can stop. It may not always be pleasant but He will keep me in perfect peace. If I come to the point where I must die and let this life go, I can rest in the Lord knowing that He has done His good will in and through me therefore He will in no way condemn Himself, in me. Oh praise God for His mercy and for His wonderful works to the children of men!

I hope this helps and we will continue to pray for you Nico,

In Christ,

Norman

[Clio]

Oh Morning Glory! I'm soooo glad you get it!!!! I know just how you feel! I've been walking around so dazed with joy and thankfulness, and total security of who I am and my salvation that I can hardly stand it.

It's absolutely amazing how beautiful the Old Testament becomes when looked at from this perspective. We have misinterpreted sooo much.

Clio

[Robert]

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In Rom 1:16,17, Paul states that the gospel is not to be ashamed of; that it is the power of God to everyone who believes, and that it is a righteousness revealed from God,

and is present in the believers through faith

. So,

it is not only

a definition of Jesus' life, death, resurrection and present ministry and what He does for us every day; as we can read in John 17, and in almost every New Testament book, but how He can change our minds in a spiritual sense; thus creating life in us, one that opposes the natural man (1 Cor 2:14).

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No! What the Spirit does in us is experienced. It is not the gospel....If you add the human element to the gospel you perverted it....

The gospel is "the birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ and NOTHING ELSE!"

Look at Galatians 1:6-7:

"I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel — which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ."

Some men had come and perverted the gospel of Jesus Christ. What was the perversion, found in chapter 3? “You were perfect in Christ, through the Spirit. Now you’re trying to improve your perfection by works, by circumcision, by keeping the law.” In other words, perverting the gospel is making salvation partly of Christ and partly of you. That’s what happened to the Galatian Christians.

So what we experience isn't the gospel....Call it sanctification or the fruits of the gospel, but it is not the gospel.

Rob

[Morning Glory]

Clio,

Thanks!! Another thing that really impressed me. Our church has started a Bible reading program this year. My first reading "assignment" was the first 2 chapters of Genesis. When I read the part where God formed man out of the "dust" of the earth.....I pictured God on His hands and knees, making a clay sculpture, Adam. And then, He leaned over, almost prone, and breathed the breath of life into Him. It really hit me, God actually got His hands, and indeed most of Him, dirty in this project!! OTOH, perhaps He formed the "sculpture" in the standing position as sculpturers do today. In either scenario, He got dirty!! And, so did His mouth!! What an image......how very personal God became in making people. That is an awesome thought, too.

MG

[Clio]

MG -

Try this thought on for size.

The "life" is in the Blood. The Bible says this over and over. Genesis says the Creator breathed "life" into Adam. What do you think that was?

It was BLOOD. That's why we are forbidden to eat of meat with blood in it. The blood IS the life. The Bible says it over and over and over.

Adam was formed from created materials, but was made to live by having life (blood) breathed into him from the Creator.

But flesh with the life thereof, [which is] the blood thereof, shall ye not eat. Genesis 9:4 KJV

For the life of the flesh [is] in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it [is] the blood [that] maketh an atonement for the soul. Leviticus 17:11 KJV

For [it is] the life of all flesh; the blood of it [is] for the life thereof: Leviticus 17:14 KJV

Only be sure that thou eat not the blood: for the blood [is] the life; and thou mayest not eat the life with the flesh. Deuteronomy 12:23 KJV

Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. John 6:53 KJV Blood covenanting has often been sealed through the mixing of the blood of the parties to the covenant, diluting it with wine or grape juice, and then both parties would drink of it. Jesus was referring to the Blood Covenant He was getting ready to seal with His blood, in a way the minds of the day could comprehend the solemnity of what He was about to do.

Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:54 KJV And that, right there, is direct, spoken verification from the mouth of Jesus, that anyone truly understanding Blood Covenants will understand what He did on the Cross. It should make your dance with joy, sing His praises, and walk around in a daze at the GOOD NEWS OF THE GOSPEL.

Clio

[Jeannieb43]

To go back to your original question, Nico, here's my picture of God and the plan of salvation.

It's not about us. It's God who is on trial here; the charges brought by Satan are against God's character and government. We're mere players on the stage of the universe. The whole universe is watching us, to see whether we love God so much that we will do the right thing just because it is right --regardless of whether we receive any immediate reward for doing so.

The great controversy between good and evil started in heaven, and involves the whole universe. This earth hadn't even been created yet.

The book of Job tells about the sons of God coming together in heaven for a meeting, and about how Satan represented the earth at that meeting; so I believe the war in heaven, and Satan being cast down to this earth, occurred prior to creation.

[i even heard one minister say from the pulpit he believed when Satan was cast out of heaven he was sent to this ball of cosmic matter which was without form and void, and told to do something with it if he could; then after many years of his being unable to create anything, God the Father and God the Son said to each other, Let us Create the Earth--and that was when the Genesis Creation occurred.]

The Good News, then, to me is that God is not the mean, vindictive God that His enemies have made Him out to be, but rather, He's the loving, gentle God as personified by Jesus [who said "If ye have seen Me, ye have seen the Father"]. He said, "I, if I be lifted up, will draw ALL unto Me" (the men in the KJV is a supplied word, not found in the original). So He's drawing all, even the angels, unto Himself. (Ellen White says that even the unfallen angels were not secured in their salvation until the cross.)

I don't see the cross as emphasizing the blood, so much as emphasizing God's willingness to do anything it takes, just to secure our salvation to Himself. And since God was the only One who could do it, God the Son offered Himself and God the Father grieved just as any earthly father would who sees his son sacrificed.

And Jesus came to this earth also to SHOW US THE FATHER. His life, just as kind, unselfish, loving and it ever could be, is just the same way as is God the Father's personality! [Ellen White says that if God the Father had come to this earth instead of God the Son, history would have been not one whit different.]

So, I love God. I rejoice in the assurance that God will draw ALL unto Himself -- all who do not actively resist.

The plan of salvation is not about you and me and our legal standing. It's about the whole universe! And God is the one on trial--not we! Satan has been the accuser, all along. Christ demonstrated God here on this earth, but there are many other beings on other worlds who are fascinated by the drama taking place here. They already know God, but the Cross confirmed their understanding -- and they'll be even more joyful in this knowledge once they see the saved from this old world joining on the Sea of Glass to sing Hallelujah.

[John317]

The Good News is that God has demonstrated within human history that He is indeed love, worthy to be trusted, admired, worshipped and obeyed, and that He will grant immortality to all who truly place their complete reliance upon Him and in His Son, Jesus Christ. The Good News, then, is about who God is and how He treats unworthy rebels and brings us finally back into full harmony with Himself. Jim

[Robert]

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Jeannieb43 said:

It's not about us. It's God who is on trial here; the charges brought by Satan are against God's character and government.

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Yes and no....It's all about us and God.

You see Satan is called the accuser of the brethren. Let me use you as an example:

Jeannie, you are a child of God...but even so you know that you fall short of God's goodness when compared to Christ's life.

Because you have both, sinned [in the past tense] and are [present tense] failing to fully live Christ's life [see Rom 3:23], the Devil accuses you before God! He says, "This Jeannie...who are you kidding God...she's a sinner."

God will then use "the source" of your good works to prove that your faith is in Him. He does this because you are fully depending on Him for your ticket to heaven.

But the devil wants you to burn with Him [i.e., He want's Jeannie to die the 2nd death]. So he'll reply:

"Yeah, Jennie does some good things, but that's not good enough because your own law requires perfect, unblemished righteousness."

God will reply: "Yes, you are right...but Jeannie's faith is in Me alone."

And to that the devil will say, "So what, faith can't save her! Besides YOUR LAW says, 'The soul the sins it must die.'...Therefore You have no right to take her to heaven because your own law demands her death."

God responds: "Yes...you are right Satan, My own law demands that Jeannie obeys it perfectly...and yes...it demands her death if she fails."

And Satan will say, "You see...you have no right to let her into heaven....She goes with me!!!"

But the Lord rebukes Satan:

"I've got news for you, Satan. Jeannie's life came from Adam...she shares his life. In the incarnation I joined her life to My Son's. So "in Him" Jeannie actually lived a life of perfect obedience. And on the cross Jeannie's life came to an end "in My Son". And Sunday morning I raised her as a new, glorified Jeannie and took her life to heaven in My Son. So "in Him" Jeannie is actually 100% righteous "in My Son"! My law is completely satisfied....She's going in...now you get lost.

And Satan's reply? NONE...He is silenced!

No worries,

Rob

[John317]

Yes, excellent. I love it. May we always keep these things in mind. Thanks. Jim

[Nicodema]

MG I'm glad you got a blessing out of Clio's posts in this thread!

Clio, I wish I could "get" what you're saying about this Blood Covenant stuff. It just doesn't connect with me. I feel like I'm missing out here. But I'm glad you and MG "get it" since it seems to make you both so happy!

[Clio]

Nico,

I've been reading everything on this I can get my hands on. I know you have a scholarly mind. Please, please get H. Clay Trumballs' book on this topic.

He makes it sooo much plainer. And it explains soooo much. Even Robert's explanation above, while beautiful, and exactly true, falls far short of what actually was accomplished if you understand the Blood Covenant that was sealed with Jesus Blood.

Another example in the Old Testament was the blood covenanting friendship of David and Jonathan. They "cut a covenant", exchanged the traditional gifts of raiment and armor (we get new "white raiment" and the armor of Ephesians 6 when we enter into covenant with Jesus), and became closer than brothers, their hearts knit together as one, David's life in Jonathan, and Jonathan's life in David, unto all succeeding generations. It was for this reason that lame Mephibosheth was seated at the king's table, for Jonathan's sake.

It's a purely human type of the divine-human unionizing covenant offered us between Abba and ourselves, through Jesus. It makes us TRULY His Children just as Jesus is His Child. Abba can no more fail us in any way than He could fail Jesus. It is anathema to Him once we are entered in to the Blood Covenant through Jesus.

Clio

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

Hi Jim,

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The Good News, then, is about who God is and how He treats unworthy rebels and brings us finally back into full harmony with Himself

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What you have said is good & true, however I was trying to avoid using theory to be of more practical help to Nico in my 2nd post. The good news is wonderful but unless we experience it and know how to have it applied in reality, it will avail us nothing.

This seems to be a problem with many SDAs. Some of us are living in doubt and have flesh driven works instead of freedom and Spirit led works, which is the result of believing and accepting the Gospel. Many of us know the Gospel but we are (As I have heard in a song recently) "playing at the foot of the cross," waiting for some future event to make us feel better.

Norman

[LifeHiscost]

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Jeannieb43 said:

[Ellen White says that if God the Father had come to this earth instead of God the Son, history would have been not one whit different.]

So, I love God. I rejoice in the assurance that God will draw ALL unto Himself -- all who do not actively resist.

Christ demonstrated God here on this earth, but there are many other beings on other worlds who are fascinated by the drama taking place here. They already know God, but the Cross confirmed their understanding -- and they'll be even more joyful in this knowledge once they see the saved from this old world joining on the Sea of Glass to sing Hallelujah.

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[:"red"] "And you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." [/] John 8:32 NLT

[bevin]

What is the Gospel? Let's go back to the people who originally spread it. They went throughout the ancient Middle East teaching...

There is an all-powerful loving God, not a nasty one

He made Himself visible to us

He knows we are suffering

If we let Him be our Lord

- He will help us in this life

- He will give us life after death

This applies directly to you and to me, Nico. And it does not depend at all on theology or intellectual knowledge or being certain that the Bible is all literally true or...

/Bevin

[John317]

I have lived both inside and outside of the SDA church, as well as in union with Christ and out of union with Christ. It is not theory with me but persoanl exprience, and I'm not waiting for something in the future to make me feel better. Besides, it is not a question of feeling better or worse. People take drugs and drink booze to feel better. Did Job serve God because he felt better by doing it? No. As I recall, that was his wife's idea of service for God-- to feel better. And if such service did not bring humans satisfaction, she said humans should curse God and die. I don't serve God because of some feeling I get from it. Job said, "Though he slay me, I will serve Him." And Jesus went to the cross not knowing for sure if His sacrifice was acceptable to the Father and if He would be resurrected. Jesus was determined to serve God no matter what the cost, and He showed that He would rather die than sin against God. It had nothing to do with feeling better. Jim

[John317]

I am wondering if you see the God of Genesis through 2 Chronicles as a "nasty God," as you put it? Do you realize that the God you read of there is actually Jesus Christ, the same Person that appears in John 8 and the same Person that will live among us, as described in Revelation 21 and 22?

Can your view of the Gospel be harmonized with that? Jim

[Jeannieb43]

Thank you, Robert, for using me as an example. I agree with what you've said, and I glory in the promises of God, looking forward to heaven.

And thank you, too, LHC.

The point of my earlier post is that I feel Jesus came to this earth not for my personal salvation alone -- but rather to vindicate His character and government before the entire universe. You've heard of that book "Your God is Too Small" (by Phillips, I think)? Well, I believe we're limiting our understanding of God's power and scope by thinking Jesus came only to save mankind. We're only a small part of the picture.

But I'm glad He IS there, drawing all unto Himself! He's not some fiendish despot, waiting to zap us for some infraction; rather, He's a loving, kind Father who wants us merely to give ourselves over to Him completely.

This picture gives me so much comfort.

I know God will return for us because He has promised to do so! We've seen that in history: God KEEPS His promises. Example: God took the Israelites over into Canaan after 40 years in the wilderness -- even though they had not become perfect during that period -- but just because He had promised! Also, God saved the family of Noah in the Ark, not because they were perfect (far from it -- their descendents built the Tower of Babel!) -- but He saved them just because THEY GOT ON THE BOAT. All we have to do is "get on the boat" of commitment to God and His loving message. We don't have to be perfect; that perfection will come as we're translated. All we have to do is "get on the boat."

[Yong T Tay]

To be very brief, I'll say this:

Having accepted Christ as my saviour, I shall not be judged by what I did in this life, but by what Jesus had done for me in His Life, in order to enter heaven. That is the good news of the Gospel. If I were to be judged by what I did, I will never be able to enter eternal life.

Robert, I share most of your views on this thread. Thank you.

yongttay

[archierieus]

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yongttay said:

To be very brief, I'll say this:

Having accepted Christ as my saviour, I shall not be judged by what I did in this life, but by what Jesus had done for me in His Life, in order to enter heaven. That is the good news of the Gospel. If I were to be judged by what I did, I will never be able to enter eternal life.

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Then, what do you do with these words of Jesus?

"Mt 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

22 "Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'

23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!' "

Regards, Dave

[Nicodema]

Dave, please stay on topic. This thread is for GOOD News. If you have some BAD news ... post it on a different thread, OK? Thanks.

[Robert]

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archierieus said:

Many will say to me in that day [the judgment], Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name

done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I [Jesus] profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. 24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man,

which built his house upon a rock

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In the judgment Christ can't defend those who refuse His righteousness. Their foundation isn't built on Christ the solid rock. Instead they present their "many wonderful works" as man's best service. In other words they are legalists...they are attempting to earn heaven.

• My hope is built on nothing less

  Than Jesus’ blood and righteousness.

  I dare not trust the sweetest frame,

  But wholly trust in Jesus’ Name.

  On Christ the solid Rock I stand,

  All other ground is sinking sand;

  All other ground is sinking sand.

  When darkness seems to hide His face,

  I rest on His unchanging grace.

  In every high and stormy gale,

  My anchor holds within the veil.

  Refrain

  His oath, His covenant, His blood,

  Support me in the whelming flood.

  When all around my soul gives way,

  He then is all my Hope and Stay.

  Refrain

  When He shall come with trumpet sound,

  Oh may I then in Him be found.

  Dressed in His righteousness alone,

  Faultless to stand before the throne.

  Refrain

[archierieus]

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Nicodema said:

Dave, please stay on topic. This thread is for GOOD News. If you have some BAD news ... post it on a different thread, OK?

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In what way is it "bad news"?

[archierieus]

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Robert said:

In the judgment Christ can't defend those who refuse His righteousness. Their foundation isn't built on Christ the solid rock. Instead they present their "many wonderful works" as man's best service. In other words they are legalists...they are attempting to earn heaven.

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Of course, the quote which you are referring to, from my post, is Jesus' words, not mine. Why does Jesus tell them to depart from Him, because He never knew them? Here is His answer: "Depart from Me, you who do lawlessness." In other words, they may have worked miracles, led people to Christ, preached revivals, but they are disobeying God's law. All the "good news" they preached about the gospel means nothing, because they are disobedient.

That, indeed, is the rest of the story about the "good news" of the gospel. The gospel not only pays the price for one's sins, and imputes the merits of Christ to the sinner. That is only part of the story. The gospel goes beyond that. It transforms the believer and empowers him or her to do good works. If a person only focuses on part of the good news of the gospel, the benefits of the gospel, for example, but does not accept the life-changing power of the gospel, and continues to overlook disobedience to God's law, or "lawlessness" as Christ describes it, then s/he may be caught by surprise, as described in Jesus' words.

Regards, Dave

[Robert]

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archierieus said:

Of course, the quote which you are referring to, from my post, is Jesus' words, not mine. Why does Jesus tell them to depart from Him, because He never knew them? Here is His answer: "Depart from Me, you who do lawlessness." In other words, they may have worked miracles, led people to Christ, preached revivals, but they are disobeying God's law. All the "good news" they preached about the gospel means nothing, because they are disobedient.

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The gospel is the birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ and NOTHING ELSE. If you inject the human element you pervert the gospel!

As to your reply....I guess it's how you interpret it. Here's mine:

"I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

The root meaning of the word "iniquity" is “to be bent.” When one depends on his works for his ticket to heaven then those works are bent towards self or in other words they are self-righteous works.

Self-righteous acts camouflaged or disguised in the name of Christ are exposed in the judgment and clearly identified as works of iniquity.. All Christians must consider this text seriously. Do our works originate from Christ and therefore motivated by agape, or are they the “fair shew in the flesh” [Galatians 6:12]? Are our works the result of a genuine relationship with Christ (i.e, works of faith) or are we working in His name but we really don’t know Him or His gospel?

[Nicodema]

Guys, can you please take theological debates to another thread? There are hundreds of threads on this board. You may begin threads of your own anytime you like. All I ask is that this thread be reserved exclusively for GOOD NEWS. The GOSPEL. No verbal beatings (not even "scriptural" ones), no arguings, no debates, no "bad news" (I don't care how important you think it is or how Biblical) -- nothing but the LOVE of GOD manifested in Christ toward us and HIS act of redemption FOR us, the more practical and individually directed, the better! Again, GOOD NEWS ONLY PLEASE. Take debates and "bad news" (condemnatory verses, dire warnings of doom, or whatever) ELSEWHERE.

Thank you for your anticipated cooperation.

Nico