What is the Gospel?

[Robert]

Quote:

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(How do the chapters in Great Controversy, Facing our Life Record and What is the Sanctuary relate to this question?) Jim

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-BC- GC88

-TI- The Great Controversy [1888 edition]

-CN- 28

-CT- The Investigative Judgment

-PR- 01

-PG- 484

"While Jesus is pleading for the subjects of his grace, Satan accuses them before God as transgressors."

Well, are they...or are they law-keepers in the stickiest since of the word?

• "The great deceiver has sought to lead them into skepticism, to cause them to lose confidence in God, to separate themselves from his love, and to break his law. [:"red"]Now he points to the record of their lives, to the defects of character, the unlikeness to Christ, which has dishonored their Redeemer, to all the sins that he has tempted them to commit, and because of these he claims them as his subjects.[/]

  Jesus does not excuse their sins, but shows their penitence and faith..."

What..no works?

• "and, claiming for them forgiveness, he lifts his ounded hands before the Father and the holy angels, saying, I know them by name. I have graven them on the palms of my hands [that's the "in Christ" motif]. 'The sacrifices of God are a broken pirit; a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise."[PS. 51:17.] And to the accuser of his people he eclares, "The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee. Is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?'[3 ZECH. 3:2.] Christ will clothe his faithful ones with his own righteousness, that he may present them to his ather "a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing."[4 EPH. 5:27.]

[Robert]

I like to watch you guys try and wiggle your way around the fact that there's none righteous, no, not one. You hate it don't you?...That's your ego kicking in...."Me a sinner? no way!"

Anyway... I know where you are going! Something like this:

We can't be justified by law, but once we are justified by faith "we establish the law"! In other words you're saying we can't by justified by law, but if we accept justification by faith we will keep the law.

Again...yes, you'll experience a change...but to say that you "establish the law" is nothing but a legalistic, self-righteous attitude....You still end up with working your way into heaven.

The bottom-line?

There is no difference [i.e., it doesn't matter], 23 for all have sinned [past tense] [:"Red"] and fall short[/] of the glory of God, 24 and are being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

"And fall short" is in the present continuous tense.... Come on you guys be honest with the grammar!

• Here’s Jack on Romans:

  Now comes the problem. It is impossible, and Paul realizes this, it is impossible to preach and to teach that we are justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law without coming under fire. Paul knows that. Everywhere he travelled in his missionary journeys he was dogged by these Judaizers who accused him of undermining the law. They accused him of being a false teacher. They accused him of being a self-made Apostle. All kinds of accusations were thrust onto Paul. You see, there are two problems with this teaching of Justification by Faith:

  1. It affects our pride. You see, if I am justified by faith, if I am justified by the righteousness of God, without any contribution from me, it implies that, spiritually, I am bankrupt; I can make no contribution. That is very painful to our egos. Man doesn’t like to think that he can do nothing good. He admits that he does bad things, but to admit that there is nothing good in him is very painful to his ego. If you don’t believe me, next time you go to the supermarket for your shopping, I suggest you stop somebody in the shop. Make sure that he is smaller and weaker than you. This is very important. And tell him, “I have some news for you.”

  He will say, “What’s the news?”

  You respond, “From head to foot, there is nothing good in you.”

  Now you will have been telling him, or her, the truth, but you have been insulting that person. Because that person is smaller and weaker than you, he won’t box you. But he could take your name down, or your car number plate down and take you to court. You have insulted that person.

  Man doesn’t like to believe that there is nothing good in him. But the gospel of Jesus Christ, the doctrine of Justification by Faith, turns all our goodness into filthy rags. And that is very painful to the human ego.

  2. There is a second problem when you preach Justification by Faith. It sounds like, when you read verse 28, that Paul is undermining the law, and that was one of the key accusations that Paul faced in his ministry. When he was taken captive by this Jewish mob in Jerusalem, one of the accusations — you’ll find that in the book of Acts, I won’t tell you the text, you need to do some homework — but you’ll find in the book of Acts that one of the accusations that was made against Paul was that he was against the law.

  This is an accusation that comes to everybody who preaches Justification by Faith alone. You can’t escape it. In fact, when I was training ministers in Africa, I told them that this is what it will cost you. I am still waiting to come under fire in this church. I haven’t as of yet, and I’m wondering why it’s taking so long. Maybe it has, behind my back, but I haven’t faced it yet openly. If somebody does accuse me behind my back, please send them to me. I’ll be happy to sit down with them and give them what I understand from Scripture and they need to defend their position from Scripture. But the Bible is clear: we are justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

  Does this mean that the gospel, that the doctrine of Justification by Faith, undermines the law? That’s the question that Paul is asking in Romans 3, verse 31:

  Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith?

  “Is this what I am doing in my preaching of the doctrine of Justification by Faith? Do we make void the law through faith?” And what is his answer [in the same verse]?

  Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

  Now I would like to confess that this is one of the most misunderstood verses in the Bible. I have heard lots of talks, I have read a lot of material on this verse, but I am afraid I have to disagree with all of them. Let me give you a typical interpretation of verse 31 that you often read and hear:

  “Do we then make void the law through faith? No! By faith God gives us His Spirit. He gives us power. And we are able to keep the law by God’s power, and by keeping the law, we are establishing the law.”

  That is a typical interpretation of verse 31. I would like to suggest that this is far from what Paul is talking about. I’ll give you three reasons:

  1. It does not agree with the context.

  2. It does not agree historically.

  3. It does not agree with the grammar.

  We need to be honest with every text that we read. Paul is not saying here that by faith we keep the law through the grace of God, through the power of God, and that way we establish the law. Let me explain each one of them.

  First of all, contextually. Paul is not dealing in this passage which we have covered with the doctrine of Sanctification. He is dealing with the doctrine of Justification by Faith. Yes, Paul has much to say in Romans on this doctrine of Sanctification, in chapters 6, 7, and 8. And Paul has much to say on the issue of Christian living, which must be in harmony with the law, in chapter 12 up to chapter 16. But here, in this passage, he is not dealing with the subjective experience of the Christian. He is dealing with the truth of the righteousness of God which justifies us apart from the works of the law. So the context won’t allow you to give you that interpretation.

[Robert]

Let's continue:

Now I do not mean by that it is impossible for you and me, by the grace of God, to grow in grace. I am not discussing that. We will come to that when we come to the sections on sanctification and the sections on Christian living. What I am saying here, and what Paul is saying here, is that it’s impossible for you and me, and it has never happened in the history of the human race, or in the history of the Christian church, where any believer has established the law.

Now to explain that. What do I mean? What does Paul mean when he uses the word establish? It means that the law is totally and fully satisfied with you. When every demand of the law on you has been satisfied, then and then only you have established the law. And that is impossible. I’ll tell you why folks. The law demands two things from you and me. Not one, but two things:

1. The law demands perfect righteousness from you and me.

2. Because we are sinners, the law demands from you and me justice. Now it is true, Paul says in Romans 8:4 that [beginning at the end of verse 3]:

And so he condemned sin in sinful man, in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.

If we walk in the Spirit, the righteousness of the law can be fulfilled in us. But the righteousness of the law is not the justice of the law. The justice of the law is that [Eze. 18:4 & 20]:

The soul who sins is the one who will die.

And the death that the law demands from you and me as sinners is not the first death, it’s good-bye to life forever. Therefore, it is impossible to meet the justice of the law and still live because, when you die the second death, that’s the end of you.

So there are two requirements that the law demands from each one of us. If you fail to fulfil those two requirements, you cannot establish the law, the law will condemn you, you’re still under the curse. But in Christ the law has been established. Christ met on behalf of all people the two demands. By His perfect life, He has met the positive demand of the law, which the Bible calls the righteousness of the law. And, by His death, He has met the justice of the law, so that, in the doing and the dying of Christ, the law has been established. That is what Paul is saying in verse 31. I’ll come back to it.

Let’s go to number three: grammatically. You see, the word “faith” is the key state word in this verse, 31:

Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? [some translations read: Do we then make void the law through faith?]

Now the word “faith” has more than one meaning in the New Testament. Paul is not saying here, “Do we then make void the law through our faith?” He is not discussing the believer’s faith, which is one of the key definitions of faith in the New Testament. But he’s not discussing that, because, in the original, which is not in the English [translations of the] Bible, in the original, the word “faith” is preceded by the definite article. So what Paul says here is:

Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? [some translations read: Do we then make void the law through the faith?]

When he uses the word faith with the definite article, it can have more than one meaning. I want to give you an example of what it can mean before I turn to this verse. Turn your Bibles to a very important passage, Galatians chapter 3, the passage that brought a tremendous controversy, not only in the Christian church, but in ours, 100 years ago. Galatians chapter 3, and I want to look at two verses, 23 and 25. And here Paul does the same thing. He uses the word faith with the definite article. I read in verse 23:

Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed.

Now what is Paul saying in verse 23? The word “faith” here is not applying to the believer’s faith but to the object of faith, which is Jesus Christ. So what Paul is saying here in Galatians 3:23 is: “Before Christ came, historically, before He came to this world, before Christ came and redeemed us by His life and death, the human race was kept in prison. We were all in death row legally before Christ came.”

In other words, even Enoch and Moses, even Elijah, had no right to be in heaven. But they were there because of a promise. If Christ had failed to keep that promise, they would have to come down and die. But the fact is that, legally, the whole world was in prison, sentenced to eternal death, until the faith of Christ came. That is why Paul says in Galatians 3, verses 24-25:

So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.

In verse 23, the faith had not come; in verse 25, He had already come. But after the faith had come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law [or “under the schoolmaster,” as some translations read] because Christ has set us free.

So the word faith in Galatians 3 does not refer to the believer’s faith, but to the object of the believer’s faith, which is Jesus Christ.

With this in mind, let’s go to Romans 3. How then does Paul use the word “faith” in verse 31 of chapter 3? Well, the context tells us here that he is discussing the doctrine of Justification by Faith. He has told us in verse 28 that the righteousness of God which justifies us by faith is apart from the law. That means our keeping of the law does not contribute towards the righteousness which justifies us. But the question in verse 31 is, “What about God’s righteousness? Does God’s righteousness satisfy the law?” In other words, is God righteous when He justifies us sinners? Can His righteousness stand up with the law in the judgment? The answer is yes.

In other words, what Paul is defending here is, once again, the legal framework of the atonement. That’s why, if we destroy the legal framework of the atonement, which some of our theologians are trying to do, we have destroyed one of the key passages, one of the key teachings of the New Testament.

Let me ask you a question. If you stand before the judgment seat of God today, and the law says to you, “Have you obeyed me?” What are you going to say?

“Well, we have been taught that the law no longer applies.”

And God will say, “Who told you that?”

“Well, some theologian with a Ph.D.”

And God will say, “Since when was he your Saviour?”

The Bible is the measuring stick of truth. And the Bible says [Heb. 9:22]:

In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

On the cross, Jesus met the justice of the law. And, by His life, He met the positive demands of the law. And when I stand before the judgment seat of God, and the law of God says to me, “Have you obeyed me?” I will not say to the law, “Well, I did my best.”

The law says, “I did not ask that question.”

“Well, I kept most of the law.”

The law will say, “I did not ask you that question either. Have you obeyed me in every detail?”

“Well, I goofed up a few times.”

And the law says, “I’m sorry, you must die. Once is enough.”

But I thank God I will not answer the law that way. I will say, “Yes, I have obeyed you perfectly.”

The law will say, “When did you obey me perfectly?”

“When I was in Christ. Then I had perfect obedience.”

But the law will say, “You’re a sinner, you must die.”

And I will say to the law, “Well I have bad news for you, I have already died.”

The law will say, “When did you die?”

I will quote to the law Galatians 2:20:

I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live....

The law will say, “Well, if that’s your position, then you are free to live.”

And I will say to the law, “Thank you.”

Because, in Christ, the law has been established on behalf of you and me. That is what verse 31 says. God doesn’t bypass His law to justify us. God holds His integrity to His law when He justifies me through His Son Jesus Christ. Because, in His Son’s holy history, God has met every demand of the law for you and for me. That is the “good news” of the Gospel.

Now I would like to emphasize this because it is extremely important for a Christian to realize this. I’ll tell you why. It is impossible — and I repeat, it is impossible — for you and me to experience genuine sanctification if we have not understood justification. It is like trying to produce oranges out of an apple tree. The ground of our sanctification is Justification by Faith.

I’ll tell you why it’s impossible. Hebrews 2:15:

...and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death.

Because Hebrews 2:15 tells me that I am a slave; I was born that way. I am a slave to the fear of death. Every human being has a fear of dying. Even the atheist is scared to die when the time comes. And that’s why there’s a saying, “There are no atheists in foxholes,” because they’re scared to die.

Now the thing is this, unless God delivers me from that fear, it is impossible for me to experience the love of God. In other words, it is impossible for you and me to live the Christian life. It is impossible for you and me to keep the law if we are still slaves to fear.

Because God doesn’t look at the act, He looks at the heart. The moment you do the right act for the wrong reason, God looks at that as filthy rags.

How can God produce a people who can serve Him without fear or without a desire for reward? It is only when He has established them in Justification by Faith, and has given them peace! And if you have no peace today, if you are not sure that in Christ you stand perfect before His law, there is no way that God can liberate you from the fear of death. Because there is only one way: through the death of our Lord Jesus Christ. And Hebrews 2:14,15 says so:

Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death — that is, the devil — and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death.

So please, there is a vital issue here. I’m saying this and I’m emphasizing this because of one reason: I have discovered in my almost 25 years of the Adventist Church that most Adventists are very insecure about their salvation. Am I correct? Or do I have some different people here? And because we are insecure, it is very hard for this denomination to send missionaries in countries where their lives are in danger, very difficult. We closed our Middle East College. Why? Because it got too hot there. We had difficulties finding doctors for Uganda. Why? Because life was on the block the moment you stepped in this country, under Idi Amin. Why are we scared? Because we cannot say with Paul [Philippians 1:21]:

For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain.

Can you say that from the heart? If you can, then you are not afraid to die.

I remember visiting a couple in Andrews [university] when I was on furlough there. They knew I was from Kenya and they were going to be sent to Kandu Hospital (and my son was born there) and the wife said to me, “Are there snakes there?”

I had two choices: to lie to her or to tell her the truth. I said, “Yes, I’m afraid there are many snakes at Kandu.”

She asked, “Are they poisonous?”

What could I say? There are mambas there, both black and green. There are spitting cobras there. There are gaboon vipers there. I said, “Well, sister, there are some very poisonous snakes there, but I do not know of a single missionary who has died by snakebite at Kandu Hospital.”

She turned to her husband and said, “Well, there’s always a first time. We better not accept the call.”

Are you afraid to die? I’m not talking about physically, because human beings are human beings. But inwardly, in the spirit, can you say, “For me to die is profit”? Unless we have that peace, God can’t use us to lighten this earth with His glory.

In 1980, [Anwar] Sadat was assassinated in Egypt. The speaker was from this country. He was scared to go there — it was a week later after the assassination — because life was now terrible. People were being killed in Egypt because of the assassination, especially Americans. And we had no speaker. They tried and they tried, and finally I got a call from Beirut (I was in Kenya) and they said, “Would you go please?”

I said, “Sure.”

I remember my missionary friends saying to me, “You are a fool.”

I asked, “Why?”

“Why are you risking your life?” they said.

I said, “Look, the only person who risks his life is a person who has not died. But I’m already dead.” And I gave them Colossians 3:3:

For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God.

We are dead, and our life is hid in Christ. And nobody can kill that life, because it is eternal.

Do you believe that, in Christ, you stand perfect before God? Do you believe that if a person comes and shoots you now, heaven is yours not because you’re good or not because you’re living in the Christian life, but because in Christ the law has been established?

Justification by Faith is the greatest message the world needs, because men are living in fear, in insecurity. The only hope that we can give them is that the law has been established by the doctrine of Justification by Faith.

That is why it is impossible for me and for Paul to talk about sanctification, or to talk about Christian living, unless he has first established us in the truth of Justification by Faith.

It is my prayer that you remember one thing: that you have a peace that your country and your money and your food cannot give you. It is only in Jesus Christ. And I want you to share this peace with those who don’t have it.

You know, I travel around here and I see all these wonderful homes and I ask myself, “How many of them have peace? How many of them are churchgoers?” Do people know that Jesus Christ has established the law for us? That, in Him, we can look at the law without blinking and realize that in Christ the law doesn’t condemn us, the law justifies us.

I want to give you three facts:

1. God is on your side.

2. Jesus is on your side.

3. His law is on your side.

The only one that is against you is the Devil, and he has no way to knock you down if you are established in Justification by Faith.

Let us remember that, when you and I stand before the Investigative Judgment, God doesn’t have that investigation so that He might find out whether you and I deserve to go to heaven by our performance. No, the purpose of the Investigative Judgment is to vindicate our Justification by Faith by our Advocate, Jesus Christ. And I know what Christ will say to Satan in that judgment [Zech. 3:2]:

The Lord said to Satan, “The Lord rebuke you, Satan! The Lord, who has chosen Jerusalem, rebuke you! Is not this man a burning stick snatched from the fire?”

This is what Paul is saying to us [Romans 3:21]:

For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law.

Is Justification by Faith able to stand up against the law of God? The answer is yes! The law has been established in the holy history of Jesus Christ. And this is the greatest news that you and I can ever accept.

It is my prayer that you will rejoice in Jesus Christ as your Righteousness, a righteousness that fully established the law in every demand.

In the meantime, read Romans 4. I’m going to cover the whole of chapter 4 in one study. I’m doing it because I don’t want to stretch Romans too long. I know some people get weary, but it’s a wonderful book. In Romans 4, Paul defends Justification by Faith against three arguments: works, circumcision, and the law. And we need to understand what he’s doing here. He’s defending what he says in verse 31.

May God help us that we may rejoice, we will have peace, and from now onward we will no longer be worried, “Will I make it to heaven?” That matter has been settled. From now onward [Philippians 1:21]:

For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain.

And if I have to die in that process, don’t worry, folks, it’s only sleeping. I don’t know about you, I enjoy sleeping, until the resurrection when I shall see my Lord. And I will say, “Thank God for such a salvation as this!” May God bless us.

[Robert]

Jack said:

• Let me ask you a question. If you stand before the judgment seat of God today, and the law says to you, “Have you obeyed me?” What are you going to say?

  “Well, we have been taught that the law no longer applies.”

  And God will say, “Who told you that?”

  “Well, some theologian with a Ph.D.”

  And God will say, “Since when was he your Saviour?”

  The Bible is the measuring stick of truth. And the Bible says [Heb. 9:22]:

  In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

  On the cross, Jesus met the justice of the law. And, by His life, He met the positive demands of the law. And when I stand before the judgment seat of God, and the law of God says to me, “Have you obeyed me?” I will not say to the law, “Well, I did my best.”

  The law says, “I did not ask that question.”

  “Well, I kept most of the law.”

  The law will say, “I did not ask you that question either. Have you obeyed me in every detail?”

  “Well, I goofed up a few times.”

  And the law says, “I’m sorry, you must die. Once is enough.”

  But I thank God I will not answer the law that way. I will say, “Yes, I have obeyed you perfectly.”

  The law will say, “When did you obey me perfectly?”

  “When I was in Christ. Then I had perfect obedience.”

  But the law will say, “You’re a sinner, you must die.”

  And I will say to the law, “Well I have bad news for you, I have already died.”

  The law will say, “When did you die?”

  I will quote to the law Galatians 2:20:

  I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live....

  The law will say, “Well, if that’s your position, then you are free to live.”

  And I will say to the law, “Thank you.”

  Because, in Christ, the law has been established on behalf of you and me. That is what verse 31 says. God doesn’t bypass His law to justify us. God holds His integrity to His law when He justifies me through His Son Jesus Christ. Because, in His Son’s holy history, God has met every demand of the law for you and for me. That is the “good news” of the Gospel.

It is impossible — and I repeat, it is impossible — for you and me to experience genuine sanctification if we have not understood justification. It is like trying to produce oranges out of an apple tree. The ground of our sanctification is Justification by Faith.

I love this truth....That's why I am here....If you want to experience growth you must be established on this truth....

[archierieus]

Robert, your posts should get some kind of award for being the LONGEST posts I have seen on this forum. Unfortunately, that militates against their being read. I simply am not going to get into them. It would be good if, instead, you could succintly state your points. Including a lot of material does not make them more persuasive. I would say that it causes them to be ignored.

Now, once again, let's cut to the chase. John317 did bring up a significant point: the relevance of walking the talk, in the investigative judgment. Keep in mind that the plan of salvation is also the plan of restoration. Salvation BEGINS at the cross, and from that point forward restores the believer to the image of God. In the beginning, man was created in God's image. Through his choice, the image of God was defaced in man. One crucial purpose of the gospel is to RESTORE the image of God in man. Those who continue to cooperate with God in His work of restoration, will indeed be restored to the moral image of God before the close of human probation. THEN, they too, just like Adam and Eve, will have a test of loyalty to pass. In Eden, it was the tree of knowledge of God and evil. The issue was, would they accept what God said was right and wrong, and honor His sovereignty. In the endtimes, the issue, once again, will be whether or not believers are willing to accept what God says is right and wrong (the Sabbath vs. the institution of the man of sin), and honor His sovereignty, even though their mortal lives are at stake. We are being prepared to pass this time of testing, and enjoy the heavenly Canaan which awaits the overcomers. "Let us, then, lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily besets us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith!!!" He is faithful, and will bring it to pass, if only we will cooperate with Him!!

Regards, Dave

[Yong T Tay]

Robert,

Those postings are wonderful. Thanks Robert. Thanks Jack.

yongttay

[archierieus]

Quote:

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Robert said:

It is impossible — and I repeat, it is impossible — for you and me to experience genuine sanctification if we have not understood justification. It is like trying to produce oranges out of an apple tree. The ground of our sanctification is Justification by Faith.

I love this truth....That's why I am here....If you want to experience growth you must be established on this truth....

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Okay, the acid test. Lots of nice-sounding theory. How has it worked for you, Robert? As I look at your posts on these various threads, has your theory resulted in your manifesting the fruits of the Holy Spirit? Love, joy, peace, gentleness, kindness, etc.? What do you think? Have you manifested those fruits in your posts? After all, if the message does not result in a changed life, then what good is it?

Regards, Dave

[Robert]

Quote:

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archierieus said:

Now, once again, let's cut to the chase. John317 did bring up a significant point: the relevance of walking the talk, in the investigative judgment. Keep in mind that the plan of salvation is also the plan of restoration. Salvation BEGINS at the cross, and from that point forward restores the believer to the image of God.

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Where do you get this stuff? Hasn't anyone told you, dear man, that "in Christ" our humanity HAS been fully restored? We receive that new life at the resurrection or translation....

[Robert]

Quote:

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archierieus said:

How has it worked for you, Robert?

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Let's put it this way...no more self-righteous fruits...the result of legalism. No more judging folks because they weren't measuring up to the demands of the law!

[Robert]

Quote:

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yongttay said:

Robert,

Those postings are wonderful. Thanks Robert. Thanks Jack.

yongttay

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[archierieus]

Actually, as I understand Scripture, the CHARACTER is restored BEFORE Christ returns. For example, Romans 5:1 - 4--"tribulation works perseverance, and perseverance proven character, and proven character, hope." The work of character-building is a cooperative joint effort, between God and the believer. It doesn't happen all at once, at the end of time.

Regards, Dave

[Robert]

I know some characters...and you are one of them!

I am complete in the Beloved! Any growth that comes from that truth will be the result of standing fully on the doctrine of justification by faith alone.

BC- FW

-TI- Faith and Works

-CN- 16

-CT- Accepted in Christ

-PR- 04

-PG- 107

Perfection through our own good works we can never attain. The soul who sees Jesus by faith, repudiates his own righteousness. He sees himself as incomplete [imperfect], his repentance insufficient, his strongest faith but feebleness, his most costly sacrifice as meager [i.e., his good deeds], and he sinks in humility at the foot of the cross. But a voice speaks to him from the oracles of God's Word. In amazement he hears the message, "Ye are complete in Him." Now all is at rest in his soul. No longer must he strive to find some worthiness in himself, some meritorious deed by which to gain the favor of God.

[archierieus]

Robert, Robert, I see a potential danger. Sister White wrote about "one-idea men." Is it possible that you are a one-idea man? Justification is very, very important, but there is much more to the story. Do you have the book, "Faith and Works"? If not, I will post some excerpts from it.

Dave

[Robert]

Quote:

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archierieus said:

Justification is very, very important, but there is much more to the story.

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Typical...downplay "justification" to squeeze off some works!

Your ticket is based on what Jesus did 2000 years ago....Any additions to that truth come from the pits of hell.

[archierieus]

No, nothing typical about it. Robert, don't be demeaning to others or their beliefs. And, put the best possible interpretation on the words and actions of other. Both the Bible and the SOP call for that.

Dave

[Robert]

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archierieus said:

Robert, don't be demeaning to others or their beliefs.

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I learned what you call "demeaning" from Christ and Paul....They were hard on the legalists....

Anyway, here's a quote for you:

"One interest will prevail, one subject will swallow up every other,--Christ our righteousness." [The Ellen G. White 1888 Materials, 765]

When you realize how far you "fall short" of God's selfless love, then maybe you will be interested in the righteousness that qualifies you now and in the judgment! Christ our righteousness!

[archierieus]

Robert, get off your horse! Really try to understand what other people are saying, and look for the good in what they are saying. Try to find common ground. I would say, don't be so hard on others, or on yourself.

Regards, Dave

[LifeHiscost]

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Robert said:

Quoting a verse here and a verse there, out of context, proves nothing....

Rob

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[:"red"] "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved." [/] John 3:16,17 NASB, NKJV

[LifeHiscost]

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Clio said:

Jesus yielded His at the cross.

Clio

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As well as every day of His life, from the foundation of the world.

[:"red"] "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:" [/] Ephesians 1:4 KJV

[:"red"] "So Jesus said, "When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and I do nothing on My own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught Me. " [/] John 8:28 NASB

[LifeHiscost]

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Robert said:

>> "in Christ" our humanity HAS been fully restored? <<

We receive that new life at the resurrection or translation....

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Re: >> << In a sense you're right, Robert, the same way these words are true.

[:"red"] "And whoever continues to live and believes in (has faith in, cleaves to, and relies on) Me shall never [actually] die at all. Do you believe this?" [/]

John 11:26 AMP

OTOH these words are also true.

[:"red"] "Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase?

May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?

Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?" [/] Romans 6:1-3 NASB

The reality is that if I cannot trust you, by God's enabling power, to keep the sixth commandment now in this hour, you are unsafe to be around. Even if you aren't saved by keeping it, I may be lost by your taking my life before

my having the opportunity to accept salvation by grace.

IOW if the new life in Christ is not revealed in your walk today, you will be destructive to all those who disagree with you. And that's the gospel message lost.

[:"red"] "Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself, so that you too will not be tempted.

Bear one another's burdens, and thereby fulfill the law of Christ." [/] Galatians 6:1,2 NASB

[LifeHiscost]

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archierieus said:

And, put the best possible interpretation on the words and actions of other. Both the Bible and the SOP call for that.

Dave

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You're absolutely right, Dave. Character is developed before we enter the courts of heaven. The point that I agree with Robert on is, that character is not of us except by faith in Jesus, received into the life as attested by the apostle Paul.

[:"red"] "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." [/] Galatians 2:20 KJV

Even the faith is of God and not our own.

[:"red"] "For we have all become like one who is unclean [ceremonially, like a leper], and all our righteousness (our best deeds of rightness and justice) is like filthy rags or a polluted garment; we all fade like a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away [far from God's favor, hurrying us toward destruction]." [/] Isaiah 64:6 AMP

Those persons who don't appear to believe the words of the individuals living before the time of Christ, need much more explanation to arrive at the same conclusion.

Keep the faith!

[Clio]

I think, ultimately, the Gospel is simply this....

Jesus loves me. Totally, consumingly, with a self-less love. Unconditionally, always, and woos me like a Bridegroom, always giving me choice.

Clio